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The Knights Templar

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Knights Templar
    Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 05:12

This topic is about the order of the Templars and it's warfare.

BTW: Is it true that the Templars numbers were about 900 or so...

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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 10:17

The Templars were - at the height of their power - one of the strongest military and financial institutions in Europe - almost a separate kingdom operating within the various kingdoms - who held nominal allegiance to the Pope, but with actual allegiance only to their heirarchy.  There were many thousands of members scattered across Europe - full knights, brothers and lay members, along with those whose fealty belonged to the members.  They controlled vast tracts of land in many countries in Europe, using the profit from these to support their efforts in the Crusades.  The broad spread of their holdings was one of their military and political weaknesses - they were spread out across thousands of miles - and could not gather to support each other in times of crisis.

Following is a brief timeline of the activities of the Templars and some loose notes gathered from various sources:

1113 The Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem (Hospitallers) - recognized by the pope

1118 - 19 Hugh of Payns - (Champagne) traveled with 8 companions - "to defend the pilgrim roads to Jerusalem" - The concept gained support of Baldwin II and Bernard of Clairveaux

1128 - Council of Troyes drew up a rule for the Templars.

Was controversial even then - raised the fundamental question - should an Order professed to religion engage in warfare?

1139 Templars Confirmed by papacy

soon the Templar endowments in Europe exceeded those of the Hospitallers

These two were the first truly centralized international Orders of the Church - freed from the authority of the local bishops - answerable to Rome directly

1187 spring - small combined force of Hospitallers and Templars defeated by Saladin at 'Afula - including Master of the Hospitallers and Marshall of the Templars

1187 July - Christian forces defeated at Hattin - near Tiberias in Galilee -

By October most of the area, including Jerusalem was under Saladin's control

1191  Third Crusade - they had wealth enough to buy Cyprus from Richard I -

1192 sold Cyprus to Guy of Lusignan

Templars were most powerful in France, Anjou, Acquitaine, Burgundy, Languedoc, Aragon, and England

Less influence in Leon, Castile, Portugal, Italy, Germany

Frederick vs Papacy caused a rift between Pope and France as well, undermined the power of the papacy

Innocent IV preaching a crusade against Conrad IV

Also supported Charles of Anjou in Sicily while Louis IX was in Palestine

1289 message from Templars to Pope Nicholas IV accused the Pope of playing politics - challenged the authority of the Pope  " You could have succoured the Holy Land with the power of kings and the strength of other faithful of Christbut you have armed kings against a king, intending to attack a Christian king and the Christian Sicilians to recover the island of Sicily which, kicking against the pricks, took up just arms"  (Bartolomew of Neocastro - Historia Sicula)

Louis vs Papacy - the ongoing struggle for control of the papacy became one of the pivotal issues in European politics, and the Templars were dragged into the fray.

Both Templars and Hospitallers became Bankers, Lenders, Messengers for the Nobility of Europe

Had control of significant portions of some trade routes through the middle east - until mid 13th century

Control of kingdom of Jerusalem - politically involved with several Royal Houses - they were the real powers behind the thrones in the Crusader kingdoms.

1274 In the belief that all military orders should be unified - proposed second Council of Lyon,

1290 - last Templar stronghold in Acre fell to the Mamluks - they held Arwad island until 1302

1291 Pope Nicholas IV ordered further discussion on the questions of the council of Lyon

1307  Charges of Heresy - 13 October all knights in France arrested

All but four of 138 questioned in Paris confessed under torture

Jacques De Molay - Grand Master - confessed (under torture - later recanted)

November 1307 - Pope ordered arrest of all Templars outside of France

1309 Order States: Teutonic knights in Prussia - Marienborg, Hospitallers in Rhodes - they saw the need to consolidate and exclusively control their holdings in order to protect themselves from similar charges

18 March 1314 de Molay and Geoffry de Charney (preceptor of Normandy) burned at the stake - both retracted their confessions

1304 Boniface VIII kidnapped (and Killed ?) by Philip IV

Clement V - weak pope and Gascon - born a French Subject of the English King - not trusted by the French

1309 Papal court moved to Avignon

1312 many Templar estates were granted to Hospitallers

Why did this play out as it did? Phillip IV was broke. They were very wealthy. They had used their power to challenge both the Pope and various kings - all were jealous of their wealth and power.

 

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 11:50

... anyway, there were only a few brothers, yes. And then after that other lands were given to the Teutonic order...

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 19:40
There is some strange international cult that still exists claiming descent from the Templars.  Knights Templar Oreintalis or soemthing, they have a "Gnostic Mass" with naked chicks or something and were founded by that kookball closet homo Allistair Crowley.
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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 23:10

I'll check on the numbers and get back to you - I'm quite sure that there were usually more than a few hundred.

AFAIK very few of their holding were transferred to the Teutonic Knights - those that were not taken as crown holdings in the various countries either reverted to the church or were transferred to the Hospitallers.

In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 03:18

Marienburg

And brothers, there were few in the third crusade time period.

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  Quote Rebelsoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 05:19

If you wish to find a descent of the Templars, seek it in the Scottish order of the Masons.

And the brothers, at the height of the Templar movement, were about 6 to 9 thousand IIRC. The whole order numbered a much, much larger number but that included the seargents, artisans, clerks, servants etc. etc. etc.

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 12:27

never i want to find descendant to templars...

but which there were more, infantry or cavalry

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  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 14:09

Excellant post Vagabond. covers just about everything I could think of.

IIRC There are some accounts of a Templar fleet escaping on or abouts Oct 13 (which was a Friday) and some showing up in Scotland at the invitation of Robert the Bruce. It is thought that some fought for him and a monestary was founded that was actually Templars (the name of it escapes me right now).

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 14:17

well, where did you hear 'at.

 

Very interestinbg, besides from where did the fleet escape...

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  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 15:48

I'll see if i can't find it again . It may have been just a myth that I remember or something else but I'll get back to you.

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 21:54
The Order of the Hospital of St John


These guys are still going in the UK, they run the Saint John's Ambulance service.
There website - http://www.sja.org.uk/
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 23:02

I had posted this article on the old site - excerpted and edited from a piece that I wrote on Malta back in the 90's.

THE KNIGHTS HOSPITALLER

The Knights of Malta were originally known as the Knights Hospitaller or Knights of St. John (named for St. John the Almoner a 7th Century Cypriot and Patriarch of the church at Alexandria, he was well known for founding and maintaining hospitals.)

In 1020 the first hospital was founded in Jerusalem by the knights, a group of 3rd and 4th sons of noble families from across Europe who had no land, no obligation to the church, and very good connections. The order was structured into Inns or Auberge for each of the different tongues or languages of the members. Visiting Knights from France would meet at the Inn of the tongue of France, those from Provence at their own Inn. There were Inns representing more than 10 languages, although French and Latin were the official Tongues of the Order. Knights took vows of Poverty and Chastity, and the political structure was based on many of the Monastic orders of the day.

The order set out founding hospitals for Pilgrims to the Holy Land, pledged to the maintenance of these hospitals (as the Knights Templar pledged to protect the Pilgrims.) The Knights originally served in the hospitals themselves, caring for and ministering to their patients: they accepted all pilgrims regardless of social standing.  The hospital conditions here were not to be duplicated for centuries; by the 19th Century sanitary conditions began to reach this standard again in most of Europe.

In 1113 the Knights Hospitaller were officially recognized by the pope. This formal deed of incorporation is now in the Royal Malta Library. They worked in a black robe with white eight pointed cross, to distinguish the Hospitallers from the many military orders in the Holy Land at that time, but out of necessity a military branch developed to protect the Hospitals. This military branch of the Knights Hospitaller became for a time the strongest military force in the Mediterranean, wearing the white surcoat with a red cross that has become the symbol which we know today as the Maltese Cross.

In 1187 the Knights were driven from Jerusalem, and in 1291 driven from Acre. They were the last European Christian military order to leave the Holy Land. They retired to Cyprus, then to Rhodes in 1306, led by Grand Master Foulgues de Villaret. The Grand Master's Palace on Rhodes was the center of a group of fortresses on the Turkish and Greek coasts and scattered through the islands of the Mediterranean.  From here, the Knights joined with the French, Italians and Byzantines in fighting against the Saracens, and from their base on Rhodes were a thorn in the side of Ottoman shipping throughout the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean.

One after another, the smaller fortresses fell to the growing might of the Ottoman Empire.  The fortress on Rhodes was besieged in 1444, and again in 1482, but both times the knights held against great odds. In 1522, a third siege took place when Suleiman the Magnificent sent an army of 100,000 against only 600 Knights, 1000 auxiliary troops, and the starving local residents of Rhodes. The Knights held the fortress for six months while pope Hadrian VI tried in vain to get reinforcements through the Ottoman Blockade.

On January 1, 1523, the Knights were betrayed, and the Ottomans were let into the city of Rhodes. Popular legend reports that Suleiman had such respect for the ability of the surviving Kinghts that they were allowed to retire from Rhodes rather than surrender.  Grand Master Phillipe Villiers De L'Isle Adam sailed from Rhodes with the 180 surviving Knights.

In 1530 the Knights were given Malta by Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, and King of Spain. Some stories relate that the price for Malta was that they give Charles yearly one black hunting falcon - the beginnings of the legend of the Maltese Falcon.  Malta was to become their new base from which to defend Europe against the incursions of the Ottomans.

In 1565 the Ottomans undertook an unsuccessful siege of Malta which some say broke the strength of the Ottoman army, and ended the Ottoman threat to Europe.

The Knights ruled on Malta until 1798, when Napoleon took Malta, leaving the Knights again homeless. The headquarters of the order moved to Rome, where it survives in a somewhat changed form today.

The British order was sequestrated by Henry VIII and remained dormant until 1831, when it was revived by the French Auberge. In 1888 the British Chapter received a charter from Queen Victoria that is unique even today in that it admits all persons regardless of religious affiliation. The British Chapter is now represented in Rome, and in 1961 made a convention of Alliance with the remaining orders in the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden.

They are best know today as the St. John's Ambulance Assoc, St. John's Ambulance Brigade, and have recently (1960), founded an Ophthamalic Hospital in Jerusalem bringing 1000 years of history in a full circle.

In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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  Quote Roughneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 00:26
The Ottomans were still a threat to Europe after Malta, as shown by two sieges of Vienna in the 1600s, the last of them in 1683.
[IMG]http://img160.exs.cx/img160/7417/14678932fstore0pc.jpg">
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 11:51
but hussars crushed em...
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 16:23

Roughneck - you're correct - I was imprecise. I should have said "Ottoman threat to Europe in the western Mediterranean.." Or something vague like that.

There's a whole discussion available here for another thread - I've opened a thread about the question of the decline of Ottoman power on the Islamic World board: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=262& PN=1&TPN=1 so that we don't hijack this thread.

Back to the Templars:

The Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Templars http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14493a.htm quotes a few numbers for us that might be helpful in assessing their overall numbers:

Quote

The Templars had commanderies in every state. In France they formed no less than eleven bailiwicks, subdivided into more than forty-two commanderies; in Palestine it was for the most part with sword in hand that the Templars extended their possessions at the expense of the Mohammedans. Their castles are still famous owing to the remarkable ruins which remain: Safd, built in 1140; Karak of the desert (1143); and, most importantly of all, Castle Pilgrim, built in 1217 to command a strategic defile on the sea-coast.

As an army they were never very numerous. A contemporary tells us that there were 400 knights in Jerusalem the zenith of their prosperity; he does not give the number of serjeants, who were more numerous

...

It has been computed that in less than two centuries almost 20,000 Templars, knights and serjeants, perished in war.

...

At the apogee of its prosperity, it was said to possess 9000 estates.

Endquote

On the question of contemporary groups that claim descent from the Templars:

One contemporary group that claims descent from the Templars has a good site: http://www.ordotempli.org/ that includes a brief history of the "lost" period from 1314 - 1705 - which they call the Larmenius period.

Many groups within the Freemasons also claim descent from the Templars; there are many references to the Order in Masonic texts and the youth organization of the Masons in the United States is called DeMolay - a reference to Jacques de Molay, the last Grand master of the order, who was executed by Phillip the fair in France.  http://www.thefreemason.com/library/degrees/the_templars_tra dition.asp

On the question of legends about Scotland, escaped Knights and Robert the Bruce:
One site
http://xyz.org/templars/ does refer to the sailing of a few Templars from la Rochelle prior to the fall of the Order - but lists no citations or sources

Quote:

Orders were sent that on Friday 13th of October, 1307, the King's men were to carry out mass arrests of the Knights, and torture them to extract confessions. Before that fateful day, however, 24 Knights took 18 ships out of their Atlantic port, La Rochelle, and were never heard of again.

Endquote

The much-maligned chapel in Scotland is Rosslyn Chapel, founded by the St. Clair family in 1446.. If you want more information on all the wacky theories about Isis, hidden Grails, buried treasure and devil worship, try http://www.crystalinks.com/templars.html .  It's fun stuff, but it ain't history.

In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 08:10
nice sites, best is the ordotempli.org
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 01:45

http://www.templarhistory.com/history.html

I have found this site to be the most informative of those that I have encountered,  here is a excerpt on the Templar hierarchy:

  • The Grand Master

    Absolute ruler over the order answered only to the Papacy

  • Seneschal

    Acted as both deputy and advisor to the Grand Master

  • Commander of the Kingdom of Jerusalem

    Was in charge of The area and had same powers as Grand Master within his own jurisdiction

  • Commander of the City of Jerusalem

    Was in charge of the area and had same powers as Grand Master within his own jurisdiction

  • Commander of Tripoli and Antioch

    Was in charge of the area and had same powers as Grand Master within his own jurisdiction

  • Drapier

    The Drapier was in charge of the Templar Garments

  • Commander of Houses

    Acted as lieutenants to higher authorities within the order but carried little actual power themselves

  • Commander of Knights

    Like the Commander of houses, acted as lieutenants to higher authorities within the order. They carried little actual power themselves

  • Knight Brothers

    These were the warriors who wore the white tunic and cross. Each was equipped with three horses and armaments

  • Turcoplier

    The purpose of the Turcolier was to command the brother sergeants in battle. The Turcopolier would lead the march along with a guard of knights

  • Under Marshal

    The Under marshal was in charge of the footmen and the equipment

  • Standard Bearer

    The Standard Bearer was one of the sergeants and charged with carrying the order's banner

  • Sergeant Brothers

    These warriors were support troops and did not have to be nobly born. Although similarly equipped to a full knight, the sergeants had one horse and no squires under them

  • Turcopoles

    These were the local troops who would fight along side the Templars. Similar to the sergeants

  • Sick and Elderly Brothers

    No longer active members but still members of the order

  • I find them very interesting,  for example,  should someone in the order be charged of heresy they would not kill them,  they would send them to a Cisterian monastery with the hope of saving their immortal souls.

  • The also had a great amount of rules (75 I think)  governing everything from not wearing shoes with laces to dress to not being in the company of women alone.

  •  



  • Edited by Huitzilopochtli
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      Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2004 at 13:58
    IIRC there book of rule was written by a prominant monk related to their founder.
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      Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 03:04

    There is a translation into English of the original Rule of Order here:

    http://www.ordotempli.org/ancient_templar_rule_of_order.htm

    In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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