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Ming atrocities in Korea during Imjin war
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Slick View Drop Down
Knight
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Posts: 93 		  Quote Slick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ming atrocities in Korea during Imjin war
    Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 16:06
We're talking different eras ... historically, the people living in the Korean peninsula got it from all sides ... Tang Dynasty, the Mongols, the Jurchens, the Japanese ...
 
Though some of them also had their moments when they were strong enough to strike at their neighbours ... like Bohai during the Tang.
 
 
Yeah I know, but this thread is talking about the Imjin War. I knew that the Chinese fought with Koreans sometimes, but just never realized that the Ming, ostensibly Korean allies during that war, even did nasty things. I knew the Japanese did some pretty horrible things (kill many and mutilate bodies to make a nose mound, destroy a multitude of buildings, etc.) in the Imjin War.
"Dai Ichi Dai Man Dai Kichi"
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Consul
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Posts: 360 		  Quote jiangweibaoye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 12:01
Snowybeagle,
 
Very well put. 
 
Totally agree.
 
Jiangwei
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Posts: 474 		  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 11:10
Originally posted by Slick

Wow, this is pretty interesting. I always thought that the Japanese were primarily the ones ravaging Korea. I never realized that the Chinese did some bad stuff too. :x
We're talking different eras ... historically, the people living in the Korean peninsula got it from all sides ... Tang Dynasty, the Mongols, the Jurchens, the Japanese ...
 
Though some of them also had their moments when they were strong enough to strike at their neighbours ... like Bohai during the Tang.
 
 
Originally posted by Slick

Like snowybeagle said, I guess that nearly every country has a bad mark on their history...
That's for sure.
Until humanist ideals became more widespread, most governments were not even fair to their own people, much less to non-citizens.
 
Or perhaps it is a common phenomena for military men in the past to take liberties with those they were suppose to aid. Heck, it happens even today with UN peacekeepers.
 
What is different though is it is seldom tolerated if exposed, unlike the past.


Edited by snowybeagle - 02-Feb-2007 at 11:11
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Knight
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Posts: 93 		  Quote Slick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 04:40
Wow, this is pretty interesting. I always thought that the Japanese were primarily the ones ravaging Korea. I never realized that the Chinese did some bad stuff too. :x
 
Like snowybeagle said, I guess that nearly every country has a bad mark on their history...
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Posts: 474 		  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 22:44

No one should presume their people to be above committing atrocities.

It is always those on the lower social strata who suffered the most, be it from their own social superiors or from outsiders as in the case above.
 
I do note though that the records refer to the Ming soldiers as "People of Tang" despite the fact that the Tang Dynasty had been gone for more than half a millenium. But it would make even less sense to refer to them as "Ming people" because the character Ming has its own meaning.
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Posts: 54 		  Quote stupidumboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 14:05
You are very welcome.
I will try other authentic sources , if you are OK , there are other sources but they are private written records during the Imjin war by chosun national persons.
 
 
You can read 'ANNALS OF CHOSUN DYNASTY ' on this link.
 
 
You can try Chinese or English version but they just inform guide how to check original articles throuout Korean site function.
 
Its not that difficult though.
 
 
 
 
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The Charioteer View Drop Down
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Posts: 735 		  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 07:18

Thanks stupidumboy, this answer will do my need. Now im just gonna copy and paste these examples straight to the Chinese forum where they are having discussion about this matter and believe such is exaggerated even fabricated.

But the truth speaks for itself, now i have something to add to that discussion.
 
If there are more authentic records please provide.
 
Also would you inform me where i can get online copy of "'the annals  of Chosun dynasty"? for clarification and reference purposes.
 
And i'd like to read it personally sometime.
 
BTW, you are resourceful, do you know where i can read Admiral Yi Sun Sin's war diary? I'd like to have some cross-referencing.
 
Thanks in advance.
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Knight
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Posts: 54 		  Quote stupidumboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 02:34
Yes, they are based on the real history record, 
Accordi ng to 'the annals  of Chosun dynasty.'
 
宣祖 91卷, 30年( 1597 丁酉 / (萬曆) 25年) 8月 7日 乙丑 6
 
漢城府啓曰: 當日到付中部主簿牒呈內, 本月初六日夕, 私奴世亨招內, 有一蒙白女人過去, 唐人扶執, 脅奸作計。 怒其牢拒不從, 拔劍剌腮及項, 又斬世亨十四歲童奴末叱山頭, 手持橫行云。 敢啓。 頗遊擊管下軍李宗義及被傷女人德只等, 麻都督使頗遊擊取招, 則李宗義招辭以爲: 昨日失馬尋蹤之際, 兒童三人在路上牽去, 見我追去, 二兒走避, 一兒顚仆。 進捉詰問, 則只謂我强盜, 醉酒中拔劍殺之 云。 德只以爲: 自市上從抄路轉過, 唐人一名逆來, 欲爲怯奸, 高聲走過, 則拔劍趕到, 刺傷右腮。 時有一兒從後來, 亦爲大呼强盜, 則返追兒童, 因爲擊殺 云。 遊擊以女人之說爲實, 稟于都督, 斬首於鍾樓街上云。 上曰: 知道。
 
 
宣祖 103卷, 31年( 1598 戊戌 / (萬曆) 26年) 8月 1日 甲寅
 
劉提督接伴使金睟馳啓曰: 衙門各將, 到全羅地方, 多發軍丁, 搜索遠近, 無髮者, 皆綁拿。 得病落髮者及僧髡, 亦皆被拿, 一日之間多至數百。 天兵因此出入村巷, 奪掠財産, 刦奸婦女, 至有强奸童女。 事覺, 提督梟其甚者。
 
Maybe cydevil could help some translation if you are confused to understand articles clearly.
There are more but I am just showing the authentic record about those incidents.
 
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The Charioteer View Drop Down
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Posts: 735 		  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 22:53

 
 
 
The above two scenes are reconstruction of Ming soldiers raping Korean women during Imjin war.
 
It seems these are scenes come from a Korean history drama about Admiral Yi Sun Sin?
 
Could anyone provide more detailed historical documents that record the atrocities commited by Ming army during Imjin war?
 
Because from one sided view of Chinese history text books regarding Imjin war, these atrocities are never mentioned.
 
So i would really like to hear different opinions.
 
 


Edited by The Charioteer - 25-Jan-2007 at 22:55
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