Which country in ww2 kicke the most......

Cleared that *&^$*$*%^! table!

Domain                              Germany                                  USSR                                          USA                                       UK

                              Rating                score           Rating                score            Rating                 score           Rating             score

Leaders (politics)      Excellent              5                  Excellent              5                  Good                   3                  Good                3

Leaders (military)      Terrible                0                  Average*             1.5                N/A                     5                  (In) competent*  0.5

Supreme command   Terrible                0                  Average               2                  Very good            4                  Very good         4

High level command

 (ground forces)        Excellent              5                  Average               2                  Average               2                  Good                3

 

High level command

(air forces)               Terrible                0                  Competent            1                  Excellent              5                  Excellent          5

 

High level command

(Navy)                    Good                   3                  Good*                  3.5                Very good            4                  Very good         4

 

Intermediate level

command

 (ground forces)        Excellent              5                  Average               2                  Average               2                  Good                3

 

Intermediate level

command (air forces)                           Competent     1                         Competent     1                         Excellent       5                     Excellent    5

 

Intermediate level

command (navy)      Good                   3                  Good*                  3.5                Good                   3                  Very good         4

 

Low level command

(ground)                  Excellent              5                  Average               2                  Competent            1                  Good                3

 

Low level command

(air)                        Good                   3                  Competent            1                  Excellent              5                  Excellent          5

 

Low level command

(navy)                    Very good            4                  Good*                  3.5                Good                   3                  Excellent          5

 

Units (ground)          Excellent              5                  Very good            4                  Good                   3                  Very good         4

Units (air)                Average               2                  Average               2                  Good                   3                  Good                3

Units (navy)            Good                   3                  Good                   3.5                Very good            4                  Excellent          5

 

Overall rating         Good                  2.933            Very good           4.000            Better than good 3.433            Very good       4.066

 

Military rating        Good                  3.000            Almost very good                   3.769                   Better than good                 3.384         Very good                4.076

 

Ground forces

rating                     Excellent             5.000            Average+            2.500            Average+             2.250            Better than good              3.250

 

Air forces rating     Competent+        1.500            Competent+        1.250            Almost excellent 4.750            Excellent         5.000

 

Navy rating            Better than good 3.250            N/A *                  -                   Better than good 3.500            Very very good 4.500

 

A few comments about the ratings:

�         Japan wasn�t included but we gave her an all in all of about 2+.

�         We considered that the involvement of the politics in military command is a bad thing, that�s why we rated USA with 5. Why Germany takes a 0 is obvious, since Hitler�s meddling with the military lost the war since 1940. Churchill to has had a little too much bad influence (Greece 1940)

�         Germany�s OKW is by far the worst example of a joint headquarters. Both Jodl and Keitel were nothing but buttkissers. I rated USSR at 2 since its supreme command only began to work fine since autumn 1942.

�         High level commanders (Manstein, Halder, Zhukov, Bradley, Monty, Nimitz, etc.). USSR is so badly rated on ground forces because the best of them came up after the initial debacle. For the USA, I think Ike is to be considered rather an exception than a standard. Only if Douglas wouldn�t have been around, maybe we would have thought of USA differently.

�         Intermediate level (Rommel, Model, Bittrich, Patton, Horrocks, Halsey, etc.). Same thing for the USSR and the USA. Patton may look good but he is overrated in my opinion. We considered the marines to be related with the navy.

�         Low level command (as much as for a colonel in the army) and individual units. This, I think is a quite subjective scoring, but we were not trying to make a scientific work.

�         We rated USSR with 3.5 at naval. That was to compensate the fact that they weren�t very much involved in naval warfare in order to make a general score. Frankly I would think that naval warfare was not very significant on the eastern front.

 

Edited by Cezar - 02-Feb-2007 at 10:21

Germany's political leaders were excellent?

Edited by gcle2003 - 01-Feb-2007 at 11:34

Yes, Hitler wasn't a good military leader... but Germans were so successful because he invited the brilliant military generals, like Rommel and Gudarian, to share their military ideas and allowing them to design German invasion and army in their way. Fortunately, Hitler's pride and ambition as well as his burning hatred towards Slavik clouded the right judgements that he was suppose to take.

Russian leadership was excellent. Stalin was able to brainwash and unite Russian and non-Russians such as Ukranians to resist the Germans. The worst leadership seen in WWII was France... in general. They had enough manpower and supplies to counter the Germans.

Originally posted by gcle2003 Germany's political leaders were excellent?   We are talking about planet earth, aren't we?   PS: what's gone wrong with the layout of this thread?

What's going wrong?

When I first posted on this topic there was no harm!

The first, chronologically, of Hitler's biggest blunders was figuring that Britain and France would not fight over Poland. That was a purely political mistake.

Edited by pekau - 01-Feb-2007 at 18:56

has anyone ever read the book wine and war?

Cezar should edit his post and delete the chart. Hopefully the layout will be fixed.

plz this is messin up my post

I mostly agree with gcle on this issue. I have studied appeasement and its associated issues in quite some depth. It is, in my opinion, quite plain to see that Hitler miscalculated what the Allied response would be when he entered Poland. Poland, I imagine, was probably going to be his last move in the process of 'rebuilding' German territory. The previous appeasement attempts by the Allied nations led Hitler to believe that he would also get away with Poland. An interesting thing to note is that Stalin repeatedly told the Allies that they had to destroy Hitler. When the Allies didn't listen, Stalin believed they were deliberately ignoring him to weaken his position, and decided to side with Germany instead.