Which country in ww2 kicke the most......

Originally posted by pekau Austria-Hungarian forces were almost negligble in WWI except for conflicts in the Balkans and Italy. Austrai-Hungarian forces were crushed by advancing Russians until Germans came to the rescue.   Mutinity was all over Russia. Russia's incapability frustated many Russian officers... and some soldiers would even shoot their own commanders. Many officers committed sucide or were sent to Siberia... or join the revolutionary movements. In Stalin's time... this would not have been possible since his mastery of propaganda would brainwash Russians to fight until there would be no Russians....   Tsar's incapable leadership as well as being charge of Eastern Front allowed the revolution to be in success. Tsar could easily put down the revolutionary guards by force... but he didn't. He just gave up. It should be noted that first revolution was not by the communists... but by Duma. The Provincial Government was born, and Communists were forced to go hiding.   Revolution was successful when one Russian commander attempted to overthrow the gov. Fearing this, provisional government released many Bolshevik members and allowed them to bear arms for country's defense. This is when the Bolsheviks' military were named "Red Guards". How stupid is this move? You do not protect the meat loaf from the tiger by bringing in the lion!   It was the government's stupid move that allowed revolution to be in success. Not because Turks, Austrians and Germans forced Russia to surrender. Germans did not even seriously attacked Russia. Austria-Hungarians were busy with Italians and Serbs... and Turks were trying to pull things together and resist Western power in the Balkans.   By the time Russia surrendered, over 5 million perished. That's huge. Russia would have died out as a civilization if the war continued. With Germans' few divisions, they countered all types of Russian attacks. And the Allies did a poor job supporting the Russia since the Turks stopped the supply route to Russia... and Baltic was seized by Germans... And this is where Americans come in for supply... but that that time.... transportation to Russia by Pacific was long, expensive, and they could have been easily intercepted by the revolutionary movements.    Now, imagine if Germans suppressed the French and attacked Russia with full strength in WWI? Moscow would be taken, and Russia's only alternative, St. Petersburg, would be taken out at ease.   Same concept for WWII, except the leaders in WWII were smarter. But then, the military gap became even larger compared to WWII... and German invaders were more in numbers, which should be an advantage since Russia's population grew as well. The only tanks that could match Germans' are T-34, which frequently broke down during the battle. Starvation was common, and if Hitler combined all forces and taken out Russian cities one by one... they would have made it. Divide division by 2. One goes for Moscow, another to Caucaus Mountain. Force from Moscow to Petersburg and reinforce the Germans in the Caucaus Mountain to Stalingrad. Make a death kill, retreat to Volga river like French did... and continue the slaughter. Circle the Russians that are out of Stalingrad and wipe them out. Come back to Stalingrad and finish the kill.   But mostly, Germans coming as liberators rather than executioners... that would ensure Germans' victory. Russians were tired to Stalin's regime (And why not? I would just surrender if Hitler did not hate Russians so much). In the beginning of war, many Russians just surrendered. But after realizing that Germans were worse than Stalin, they sided with Stalin.

    The revolution in 1905 was not fought by Duma. Tsar Nikolai II reinstated the Duma as a council to the government to supress the revolutionists. This did not completely subdue the radicals though, and they came back in WWI when the Russian government was in a disorganzied state. They returned in full force with a whole new ideal, and after they overthrew the tsar, they realized that the country had no future, so they took in the political activist Vladimir Lenin and his cohort and political partner, Lev Trotsky, to lead them in forming a new nation. Together they were known as the socialist Bolshevik party, and eventually they were able to form a union of Soviet Socialist Republics. With all this going on, it became sort of difficult for Russia to fight against the Germans. Once all the internal fighting cooled down and the revolutions settled, Russia was in no state to fight a war with another country. This whole Revolution deal was why the Russians lost so many troops and so much land. If it weren't for the tsar's poor leadership, Russia would have had a much brighter future and could have beaten Germany, as it certainly did have the potential to do so.

    For WWII, if Russia had been in that bad of a condition that it was losing the war by a large gap, Stalin surely would have done something more rash than what he actually did to defend the country. Don't think that Hitler was the only one making mistakes here. As I said, Russia had many reserves waiting for a Japanese attack in Siberia.
    If Hitler combined his forces to take out one city at a time, then the Russians could do thesame and meet him at that one city. Since the Russians vastly outnumbered the Germans, they would easily be able to obliterate Hitler's forces in one fell swoop. They could not do this in history though, because Hitler's forces were able to out-maneuver the Russians and hit critical weak points in the Russian defense before Stalin could even realize it. So again, Russia performed poorly due to poor leadership. If Hitler had not given out such a tyrannical image of himself, then yes, the Russian citizens would have probably sided with him.

@ dilvish
Well, so long as you have 3 other options, I hope you don't mind my asking you to change it. Here it is: Dilvish, will you please change your avatar to one of your other 3 options.

Edited by Aleksandr01 - 30-Jan-2007 at 15:51

its either that or west49ur is just spamming

sry for accusing you of such nonsense, i stand corrected

I tend to think the Russians did most of the hard work.

I also think France should get an award for Most Unexpected But Spectacular Comeback in WWII.

Thank you, Zaitsev. I was concentrating on the effectiveness of the army. Russia did a lot of work because they lost tens of millions of men to push back a couple million German troops. I am not denying Russia's achievement. I am merely saying that Germans were most impressive overall in WWII, due to the reasons that I posted before.

Originally posted by pekau Thank you, Zaitsev. I was concentrating on the effectiveness of the army. Russia did a lot of work because they lost tens of millions of men to push back a couple million German troops. I am not denying Russia's achievement. I am merely saying that Germans were most impressive overall in WWII, due to the reasons that I posted before.

Edited by gcle2003 - 31-Jan-2007 at 06:21

Overall, the Allies won due to their overwhelming manpower, raw materials and Axis' mistakes that could have been easily avoided. So what if the Allies lose France? Allies need few major victories to win the war... since their losses can be easily replaced due to their overwhelming manpower. Axis, however, cannot have this advantage because their manpower is quite limited. Furthermore, the Axis power had limited resources and economy, hence making the conflict against the Allies more difficult. How effective can soliders armed with latest rifles, if they have no bullets?

The intelligence of the generals, their capability to adapt to the new situation, their ability to attack in coordination, and their ability to change the weapons, or formation of army so that they would be able to maintain their effectiveness in warfare. It saves the manpower loss, weapons, and ultimately... saving the economy because less loss and more gain means that the nation is becoming more powerful. Imagine how powerful the Russians could have been if all their armies were armed and equiped like the Germans.

Which is the reason why I chose the Germans rather than Russians. But yes, I do agree that no nation should be recognized as "arse kicking" as mentioned before.