| Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Kynsi
Knight
Joined: 15-Apr-2005
Location: Finland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 73
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Which country in ww2 kicke the most...... Posted: 13-Feb-2007 at 16:29 |
| Ok. I don't know much about Finnish history, actually. I still think they kicked ass in World War II though. Even if they were subjugated by the Soviets later, they managed to pwn the Soviets in the so-called 'Winter War' (which took place in the time-frame of World War |
Finland was one of the few countries involved in the second worldwar which were not conquered. Helsinki London and Moscow were the only capitols which were not conquered in the war.
|
|
If you keep one eye on the past then you are blind in one eye, but if you
forget the past then you are blind in both eyes -old russian saying
|
 |
Knights
Caliph
suspended
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3255
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Feb-2007 at 17:56 |
Originally posted by Kynsi
Finland was one of the few countries involved in the second worldwar which were not conquered. Helsinki London and Moscow were the only capitols which were not conquered in the war. |
Well, yes, but I there are many other cities of other participating nations which were not taken. For example, Sydney, which was not invaded, but did have an unfortunate encounter with some midget subs.
|
 |
gcle2003
King
Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7050
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Feb-2007 at 06:11 |
|
|
|
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
|
 |
Knights
Caliph
suspended
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3255
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Feb-2007 at 06:16 |

That too gcle...and I better add that Sydney isn't the capital of Australia, I just mentioned it as it is a major city, that experienced war (very little!) and managed to avoid being conquered. There are plenty of capitals which were not conquered in the war, including those that participated in the war (not nations like Burundi or Peru who I don't think had anything to do with the war...) For example; Washington DC as mentioned by gcle, Canberra, Ottawa, Wellington.etc.
Edited by Knights - 14-Feb-2007 at 06:18
|
 |
Kynsi
Knight
Joined: 15-Apr-2005
Location: Finland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 73
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Feb-2007 at 08:33 |
|
Sorry forgot to say in Europe
|
|
If you keep one eye on the past then you are blind in one eye, but if you
forget the past then you are blind in both eyes -old russian saying
|
 |
Cezar
Chieftain
Joined: 09-Nov-2005
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Feb-2007 at 02:46 |
Bucharest - we were not occupied by the germans and the soviets were already on our side  when they entered the city. Though I cannot say that we didn't had some nice demolition during the war.
- 1941 - some 3-9 soviet bombers - no damage
- 1944 (april - august) - USAF bombing campaign - really bad
- 24-26(7) August 1945 - German attempt to take control of the capital - not as bad as the US bombers
Sofia?!
|
 |
beeraxe
Immortal Guard
Joined: 21-Feb-2007
Location: Finland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 21-Feb-2007 at 18:01 |
|
I cant see Finland there... Only country that was attacked by soviets AND survived it withiut losing its independens. We were the best.
|
|
Saxon Center, Third Company
Battle of Hastings 2006
|
 |
Praetorian
Pretorian
Joined: 28-Nov-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 190
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 14:10 |
Originally posted by LilLou
I don't respect nazi germany, but germany as a military force owned all these countries figthing like 5 countries at the same time , and fighting all diferent fronts |
I agree with you!
|
|
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris
--If Caesar were alive, you'd be chained to an oar.
"game over!! man game over!!"
|
 |
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 17:37 |
The defense of thier country against the USSR places Finnland very high on military accoplishments during WWII. Thier actions during the Winter War and Continuation War are used as reference in many western military schools such as West Point and the American Command and General Staff College Courses.
Having said that, during WWII thier effort played little influence in the out come of the total war.
I Must also question how Austrilia made the list with the major powers. After Greece they had next to no impact on the war in Europe and Other than NG and later Borneo didn't play all that big a role in the Pacific. This does in no way take away from the bravery shown by the Diggers in all theathers of the war. Even in Borneo the actions are still placed in question to the need of them seeing that they didn't even take place until May 45.
So shouldn't we concentrate on the rest? UK/US/USSR/Japan/Germany?France???China????????? Maybe. 
PB
Edited by Half Pint - 22-Feb-2007 at 17:39
|
 |
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 18:43 |
|
Finland, Canada and so forth did made some amazing progress... but due to their lack of influence or say in overall battle, and due to their small numbers compare to the major powers during WWII, they are insignificant. I am not saying that they are not important, but imagine if America did not get involve with WWII. Imagine Soviet Union... you getting the idea now?
|
Join us.
|
 |
Praetor
Consul
Joined: 26-Jun-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 387
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Feb-2007 at 07:39 |
|
I see your point Pekau. It is sheer lunacy to suggest the importance of
Australias role in the Second World War was greater than that of the
Soviet Union or Germany etc. However the question is not defined very
well (to say the least) two likely interpretations are number of enemy
soldiers killed or captured by that side (in which case Germany wins)
or kill/capture to death/capture ratio in which of the Poll options
Australia actually comes out on top. Finally I believe half Pint
underestimates the importance of the Australian forces in the pacific
theatre (understandable considering Macarthur's propaganda) for example
almost half the ships for the allies at the battle of the coral sea
were Australian.
|
Common sense is not common.
I do not subscribe to a school of thought, I subscribe to thought.
|
 |
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Feb-2007 at 10:19 |
Originally posted by Praetor
I see your point Pekau. It is sheer lunacy to suggest the importance of Australias role in the Second World War was greater than that of the Soviet Union or Germany etc. However the question is not defined very well (to say the least) two likely interpretations are number of enemy soldiers killed or captured by that side (in which case Germany wins) or kill/capture to death/capture ratio in which of the Poll options Australia actually comes out on top. Finally I believe half Pint underestimates the importance of the Australian forces in the pacific theatre (understandable considering Macarthur's propaganda) for example almost half the ships for the allies at the battle of the coral sea were Australian. |
Don't insult yourself. Your "example" of almost half the ships at Coral Sea were Australian is just plain not fact. HMAS Austrilia and HNAS Hobart, two cruisers, were there. Now do give me names of the other Austrilian ships that took part.
RAN had a total of 7 Cruisers and 14 DD during WWII.
A total of seven cruisers served with
the RAN during World War II, all
designed and built in Great Britain.
These were the "Chatham" class light cruiser HMAS Adelaide, the "County"
class cruisers Australia, (flagship) and
Canberra, the "Amphion" Class
cruisers Sydney, Perth, Hobart and the
"County" Class cruiser Shropshire,
transferred from Britain in 1943 as
replacement for war losses Sydney,
Perth, and Canberra.
Look at link below for an after action report on the BoC
It is not I who underestimate the Austrilian contribution in WWII but you that over estimates.
u must be one very happy person
PB
Edited by Half Pint - 23-Feb-2007 at 11:10
|
 |
Ellin
Samurai
Joined: 13-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 136
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 02:39 |
Don't know which country during WWII kicked the most arse,
but the Greeks sure kicked some good arse as well.
Greeks in World War II
Greece, during WWII, was the only country
that was forced to confront the armies of
four countries simultaneously:
Albania
Italy
Germany
Bulgaria
Duration of resistance (in days):
Greece 219
Norway 61
France 43 (superpower at the time)
Poland 30
Belgium 18
Holland 4
Yugoslavia 3
Czechoslavakia 0
Luxemburg 0
Denmark 0
Total Greek losses caused by occupying power
Albanians 1,165
Italians 8,000
Bulgarians 25,000
Germans 50,000
Total losses in population percentages
Greece 10%
Soviet Union 2.8%
Holland 2.2%
France 2%
Poland 1.8%
Yugoslavia 1.7%
Belgium 1.5%
And here's what other prominent figures had to say about her..
Quotes on/about the Greeks
For the sake of historical truth I must verify that
only the Greeks, of all the adversaries who confronted
us, fought with bold courage and highest disregard of death..
(Adolf Hitler speech delivered to Reichstag on 4, May 1941)
The word heroism I am afraid does not render
the least of those acts of self-sacrifice of the Greeks,
which were the defining factor in the victorious outcome
of the common struggle of the nations, during WWII,
for the human freedom and dignity. If it were not for
the bravery of the Greeks and their courage,
the outcome of WWII would be undetermined.
(Winston Churchill British parliament 24, April 1941)
Until now we used to say that the Greeks fight like heroes.
Now we shall say: The heroes fight like Greeks.
(Winston Churchill speech BBC first days of Greco-Italian war)
I am sorry because I am getting old and I shall not
live long to thank the Greek people, whose resistance
decided WWII.
(Joseph Stalin speech Moscow radio station
31 Jan, 1943 after victory of Stalingrad and capitulation
of German 6th Army Field Marshal Von Paulus).
If the Russian people managed to raise resistance
at the doors of Moscow to halt and reverse the
German torrent, they owe it to the Greek people,
who delayed the German divisions during the time
they could bring us to our knees.
(George Constantinovich Zhoukov Field Marshal
of Soviet Army a note from his memoirs)
Regardless of what future historians shall say,
what we can say now, is that Greece gave Mussolini
an unforgettable lesson, that she was the motive
for the revolution in Yugoslavia, that she held the
Germans in the mainland and in Crete for six weeks,
that she upset the chronological order of all German
High Commands plans and thus brought a general
reversal of the entire course of the war and we won.
(Sir Robert Antony Eden Minister of War and the
Exterior of Britain 1940-45, Prime Minister of Britain
1955-57 speech from British parliament 24, Sept 1942).
It would not be an exaggeration to say that Greece
upset the plans of Germany in their entirety forcing her
to postpone the attack on Russia for six weeks.
We wonder what would have been Soviet Unions
position without Greece.
(Sir Harold Leofric George Alexander British field Marshal
during WWII speech from British parliament 28, Oct 1941)
I am unable to give the proper breadth of gratitude I feel
for the heroic resistance of the people and the leaders of Greece.
(Charles De Gaul speech French parliament after end of WWII)
Maurice Schumann Minister of the exterior of France
1969-73, member of French Academy 1974:
Greece is the symbol of the tortured, bloodied but live
Europe. Never a defeat was so honourable for those who
suffered it.
(From a message of his he addressed from BBC of London
to the enslaved peoples of Europe 28, April 1941, the day
Hitler occupied Athens after a 6 month war against Mussolini
and 6 weeks against Hitler).
You fight unarmed and won, small against big.
We owe you gratitude, because you gave us time to
defend ourselves. As Russians and as people we thank you.
(Moscow radio station when Hitler attacked USSR).
The war with Greece proved that nothing is firm in the
military and that surprises always await us.
(Benito Mussolini 10, May 1941 speech)
On the 28th October, 1940, Greece was given a deadline
of 3 hours to decide on war or peace, but even if 3 days
or 3 weeks or 3 years were given, the response would have
been the same. The Greeks taught dignity throughout the centuries.
When the entire world had lost all hope, the Greek people dared to
question the invincibility of the German monster raising against it the
proud spirit of freedom.
(Franklin D Roosevelt US President 1933-45)
The heroic struggle of the Greek people
Against Germanys attack, after she so thunderously
defeated the Italians in their attempt to invade
the Greek soil, filled the hearts of the American people
with enthusiasm and moved their compassion.
(Roosevelt)
On 10 April 1941, after the Greek capitulation to Germany,
the northern forts of Greece surrendered.
The Germans express their admirations to Greek soldiers,
declared that they were honoured and proud to have as
their adversary such an army and request that the Greek
Commandant inspect the German army in a demonstration
of honour and recognition.
The German flag was raised only after the complete withdrawal
of the Greek army.
A German officer of the air force declared to the commander
of the Eastern Macedonia division group, Lieutenant
General Dedes, that the Greek Army was the first army on
which the Stuka fighter planes did not cause panic.
Your soldiers, he said. Instead of fleeing frantically, as they did
in France and Poland, were shooting at us from their positions.
Only we..never counted the enemy in battle. (Aeschylus)
So after all that.. beats me why Greece was left off the list/poll !!
Also, like to add that it makes no difference to me if they were talking about Papua New Guineans.. I'd still be paying homage. Just a bonus
it happens to be about my people. 
The above also implicates yet another trait (fearlessness, bravery etc)
that bind the modern Greeks with their ancestors. So a big up yours
to those who like to disassociate the two. 
Not only did they sacrifice themselves for their country and for freedom, but also for the love of their fellow man (be them of Greek or non Greek
origin)..
And I'll give but one example.
My auntie who was living at Crete at the time, who was only
13 years of age mind you.. sacrificed her life to save two
English soldiers.. she hid them in an in-ground wine vat and
camouflaged the opening with foliage and the like.. and then
she also hid her boss' gun (knowing the Germans were about
to inspect the premises) under her skirt, unbeknownst to her at
the time, that the gun wasn't loaded after all.
If that ain't ballsy, don't know what is.
|
|
"Grk ppl r anarchic & difficlt 2 tame.4 this reasn we must strike deep in2 thr lang,relgn,cult& hist resrvs, so that we cn neutrlz thr ability 2 develp,distinguish
themslvs/ 2 prevail"..up urs Kisngr
|
 |
konstantinius
General
Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 763
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 19:55 |
|
Good post Ellin, thanks for all those quotes. Just to be the "devil's advocate" I'd like to mention that we spoiled all this marvelous effort through our fratricidal and totaly destructive 5-year long civil war, and the dependence and hatred of the "yes-men" goverments that followed after 1949. Leave it to the Greeks to kill more of each other than the enemy ever could...
|
|
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
|
 |
konstantinius
General
Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 763
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 20:03 |
Originally posted by pekau
Yes, Hitler wasn't a good military leader... but Germans were so successful because he invited the brilliant military generals, like Rommel and Gudarian, to share their military ideas and allowing them to design German invasion and army in their way. Fortunately, Hitler's pride and ambition as well as his burning hatred towards Slavik clouded the right judgements that he was suppose to take.
Russian leadership was excellent. Stalin was able to brainwash and unite Russian and non-Russians such as Ukranians to resist the Germans. The worst leadership seen in WWII was France... in general. They had enough manpower and supplies to counter the Germans. |
??? Russian leadership in the beginning of the war totally sucked!! Stalin's micromanagement tactics cost the Soviets 1.8 MILLION total losses by Sept. 1941. Moreover, the elimination of many competent officers from the officer corps during the purges and the cult of "personality worship" Stalin imposed on the country breathed odedience and lack of initiative on the part of middle-and-lower ranking officers. The communiques of Russian front-line commanders to the rear in June 1941 are infamous:
Officer: "We are being attacked! They're firing on us! What should we do?"
Commanding officer on the other end of the line: "Let me ring up HQ. Keep the line open!"
|
|
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
|
 |
konstantinius
General
Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 763
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 20:18 |
Originally posted by pekau
Really? Stalin urged the Allies to attack Nazi Germany? It's logical, now you mention it...
Well, invasion to Poland was indeed a risky gamble... but for him to fulfill the world domination scheme, invasion of Poland had to be done. I don't think it was a foolish move. I mean, what else could he have done?
Errr, just sit tight and NOT start WW II? Germany had gotten Austria and Czechoslavakia at that point. Lunatic racial dreams of lebensraum, that's what he SHOULD NOT have done.
Just invading straight to France is even worse, Soviet Union is beyond German's capability, and Balkans would just give Allies more time for war preparation. By invading Poland, he would be able to attack France soon after, and preventing extra time that the Allies would get had the Germans invaded to east or south.
Yes, Hitler's book did alarmed many others... but how else could he have rose to power? As I have said before, all risks comes with consqeunces, and rewards. Hitler, again, gambled for dictator power over Germany, but alerted other leaders around the world. Hitler wanted power and German dominance over the Europe and, eventually, the world. How else can be rise to power? He quickly got all Germans' attention because Mein Kampf justified that it was not Germans' fault that they lost WWI (Which encouraged many Germans because Germans never lost a major war.
?? They lost WWI
The German generals simply called for truce since they realized that they could not win the war.
Not untill much later in the war when it was obvious they were loosing. At first they all took the oath of allegiance to Hitler and, though some of them were very alarmed at the plans of continual attack, went along in order to further their personal ambitions.
Germans were outraged.
At what?
They propaganda said they were winning, and original border of German Empire was never invaded, except when Russians suprise attacked, but they were easily countered.) They lost because of Jews, Slaviks, and other factors that were to blame, not the Germans.
No, they lost because of Hitler's unrealistic tactical decisions and the generals' unwillingnes to stand up to him. "Slaviks"? Christ, you sound just like some propaganda leaflet!
He also noted that Germans were pure "Aryan race", giving the Germans sense of national pride that they forgot ever since the end of WWI and the economical crisis. He promised that the problems that weakened Germany would be eliminated, and he would work to improve German economy, and make Germany a powerful nation more worthy than others. For many unemployed, broke, and other unfortunate Germans... Hitler was like Jesus Christ to them.
Not to all Germans. Certainly not the liberals, the intellectuals, gays, the mentally retarded, and all others who were shipped off early to concentration camps.
He promised glory, jobs, honor and a chance to make their nation great again, and a chance to attempt a revenge against their old nemesis - French and Russians. Heck, tons of Germans would go for Hitler. He brought hope, chance for prosperity, and for revenge. Heck, I would go for it. Most of Germans were broke, anyway. |
|
|
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
|
 |
konstantinius
General
Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 763
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 20:20 |
Originally posted by pekau
Hitler was great because he listened to the excellent generals and his advisors. I think when he conquered much of Europe, he became arrogant. He thought the great Nazi Germany was his achievement, and he began to follow the advise from his own judgement and his hatred. That's when Nazi Germany began to decline... |
Hitler listened to his generals? When? Before or after he fired them and/or forced them to comitt suicide?
|
|
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
|
 |
Hellios
Arch Duke
Joined: 25-Sep-2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1933
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 21:38 |
konstantinius, good point.
|
 |
Arxileas
Immortal Guard
Joined: 13-Mar-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 00:08 |
Originally posted by Dilvish
*Mental Note*
I choose the countries that where the elite of global fighting in ww2 |
Greetings all new member.  Firstly I apoligies if someone has already mentioned this?
Delvish fair enough you chose the elite countries of ww2.
Doesn't Greece
fit in this category? It may have been a small country then.
I mean it was Greece who brought the Third Rich "Hitler" down to it's knees, when the entire world was loosing hope agasn't fasism. First Greece won agains't Italy then Germany all on her own, then for the allies hope to be rekindled "a new hope"...And won.
|
 |
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 00:09 |
?? They lost WWI
Germans never lost any major conflicts during WWI. Their advance was often halted, and they had to pull back... but they never faced issues of losing too many men compared to the allies. Germany himself was never invaded during WWI.
Not untill much later in the war when it was obvious they were loosing. At first they all took the oath of allegiance to Hitler and, though some of them were very alarmed at the plans of continual attack, went along in order to further their personal ambitions.
I am talking about WWI.  Sorry for confusion.
At what?
Germans were angry because they were always told that their side was winning. Original German border was never breached by the allies. And yet the German generals simply said we lost the war because Germans could not win it. Of course they are mad. They gave everything they got, and kept the allies tense in French and Russia, but they lose because their generals thought they can't win it.
No, they lost because of Hitler's unrealistic tactical decisions and the generals' unwillingnes to stand up to him. "Slaviks"? Christ, you sound just like some propaganda leaflet!
I am just saying how Germans justified the loss of World wars, thanks to German propaganda. I am not saying that it's my opinion.
And the people that actually stood up against Hitler regarding the massacre of some races were either ignored, forced to retire, exiled or killed... imagine the German's capability if they allowed Jewish people to work for them. Imagine if the Germans came to Soviet Union as liberators, not conquerers. Tide of war may have changed...
Not to all Germans. Certainly not the liberals, the intellectuals, gays, the mentally retarded, and all others who were shipped off early to concentration camps.
Of course, Hitler was brutal to the minorities. But majority of the population were quite satisfied due to the promises that he fulfilled. Hitler don't care if retards get their rights. He doesn't care if the Jewish people are abused. All he cares is how he can satisfy most of the Germans so that he can get voted. And it's not just Hitler. That's how democracy works these days. Before black got the right to vote, politicans never had to visit or make promises to them because they can't vote. Women were never considered in election compaign because they could not vote back in the old days. It's all about power. So much for democracy's equality...
|
Join us.
|
 |