louis vuitton handbags online casque beats maizitang tiffany jewelry cheap louis vuitton taschen online shop louis vuitton cheap handbags
Which country in ww2 kicke the most...... - History Forum ~ All Empires - Page 3
 

Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Which country in ww2 kicke the most......
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 10>
Poll Question: Italy
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
34 [41.98%]
2 [2.47%]
5 [6.17%]
1 [1.23%]
19 [23.46%]
16 [19.75%]
3 [3.70%]
1 [1.23%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which country in ww2 kicke the most......
    Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 07:04

You sure? I thought Germans began to bombard London when Churchill organized a bombardment in Berlin. Hitler was furious that the enemy attacked the heartland of Germany and ordered all his forces to strike London instead of radars, air force bases. Britain had air and sea superiority, but they mean nothing if they do not attack in coordination. Look at France in WWII, it had among the best army in the world... but because of the lack of coordination, gov. corruption, and incapability to use her resource and mass produce the war-related supplies... France was knocked out within few months.

 
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
Lotus View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 17-Aug-2006
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 117 		  Quote Lotus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 12:04

How does a country kicke another country ?

If you mean kill the greatest number of people, I guess that would be Germany.

As well as the millions of Russians already mentioned, you could add the million odd civilians gassed in concentration camps.

I visited the Auschwitz concentration camp while travelling around Poland some years ago, they had whole rooms filled floor to ceiling with the personal possessions of the people that were gassed, particularly moving were the names and addresses written in large letters on the suitcases so that the families would be able to find them again when they arrived. Another room was filled with childrens shoes.

Thats kicke-ing big time.
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 17:01
Lotus is correct. It's not proper to define the nation with the outstanding war records as "Country kick the most"... I mean, it's unfair to say that Russia was the most successful simply because they happen to have the largest number of manpower in the army, with sufficient weapons and supplies from the Allies. 
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
Aleksandr01 View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl
Avatar

Joined: 18-Dec-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 33 		  Quote Aleksandr01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 22:48
Originally posted by pekau

Lotus is correct. It's not proper to define the nation with the outstanding war records as "Country kick the most"... I mean, it's unfair to say that Russia was the most successful simply because they happen to have the largest number of manpower in the army, with sufficient weapons and supplies from the Allies. 


That's not what I'm saying at all. Russia WON THE WAR. They beat back the Germans all the way to Berlin even after essentially losing their capital. The morale of the Russian troops was amazing, and the willingness of the people to fight alongside the army and volunteer their lives for the good of their country was outstanding. After sustaining numerous defeats and being pushed back to their own capital, they still had the drive to make one last swing and knock the Germans back where they came from. Even in the midst of fighting numerous enemies including not only German but also Finnish, Italian, Romanian, and Hungarian enemies, the Russians were still able to keep their cool and remain calm in the midst of a crisis such as this. They asserted their power steadily with an air of persevearance and pride, and pushed the Germans back to their capital with ease, effectively kickeing the most...
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 22:59
Originally posted by Aleksandr01

Originally posted by pekau

Lotus is correct. It's not proper to define the nation with the outstanding war records as "Country kick the most"... I mean, it's unfair to say that Russia was the most successful simply because they happen to have the largest number of manpower in the army, with sufficient weapons and supplies from the Allies. 


That's not what I'm saying at all. Russia WON THE WAR. They beat back the Germans all the way to Berlin even after essentially losing their capital. The morale of the Russian troops was amazing, and the willingness of the people to fight alongside the army and volunteer their lives for the good of their country was outstanding. After sustaining numerous defeats and being pushed back to their own capital, they still had the drive to make one last swing and knock the Germans back where they came from. Even in the midst of fighting numerous enemies including not only German but also Finnish, Italian, Romanian, and Hungarian enemies, the Russians were still able to keep their cool and remain calm in the midst of a crisis such as this. They asserted their power steadily with an air of persevearance and pride, and pushed the Germans back to their capital with ease, effectively kickeing the most...
 
If you put it that way, I can't really argue.... winners make the history after all. I am merely pointing out that without Allied reinforcement (machines, weapons, and supplies), Stalin's propaganda, Hitler's ignorance due to his hatred towards Slavik people and tons of expendable souls... Russia could not have made a great accomplishment. We saw the result when such factors listed above did not happen... Russia' unconditional surrender in late WWI.
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7050 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 06:07
 
Originally posted by pekau

You sure? I thought Germans began to bombard London when Churchill organized a bombardment in Berlin.

London was bombed first. The RAF organised a retaliatory raid on Berlin on 25/26 August, but both these affairs were tiny - the bombing of London may even have been a mistake.
 
There's a distinction that needs to be drawn between the Battle of Britain and the 'Blitz'.
 
The Battle of Britain was essentially a daylight affair: attacks by the Luftwaffe designed to achieve tactical sir superiority over England in order to pave the way for a sea/airborne invasion. That invasion was originally scheduled for mid-August - before either London or Berlin had been bombed.
 
By mid-August, the date had been postponed because the attacks had so far failed. By mid-September it had been given up altogether.
 
At this time Germany wasn't fighting anyone else anywhere: the British were fighting Italy in Africa, but Germany had no distractions apart from maintaining garrison troops. So it could concentrate all its efforts on Britain. And it was beaten. It failed. Offically the battle drifted on until October, with the high sport for Britain coming on September 15, but it was over long before that.
 
And it was as decisive in 1940 as Trafalgar had been in 1805.
 
As a result of that defeat, Germany on September 7 switched to the programme of terror bombing that we call the 'Blitz', which would go on all that winter, focussed mainly on London but also on other cities. This was night-time bombing, which, given the technology of the time, meant pretty well any pretence of aiming at strategic targets had to be abandoned.
 
But it wasn't the result of pique on Hitler's part. It was a reversion to the strategy that had been successful at, e.g., Rotterdam, because all else had failed.
 
(Incidentally, in view of what I wrote either earlier in this thread or the other one, the Ju87 Stuka was in fact used in the early stages of the Battle of Britain, but would have been totally useless in the Blitz because you cannot dive-bomb by night - even if the Stuka hadn't been a sitting duck for the British fighters.)
 
Hitler was furious that the enemy attacked the heartland of Germany and ordered all his forces to strike London instead of radars, air force bases. Britain had air and sea superiority, but they mean nothing if they do not attack in coordination.
!!!
Why do you think they wouldn't act in co-ordination? And why would they want to attack? Britain was fighting a defensive battle - it was Germany that had to attack.
 
There's no way Britain could have attacked in 1940 (outside Africa).
 
Look at France in WWII, it had among the best army in the world
No it didn't. Quite obviously.
... but because of the lack of coordination, gov. corruption, and incapability to use her resource and mass produce the war-related supplies... France was knocked out within few months.
 
The main reason France lost militarily was Germany's tactical air superiority, buttressed by the superior use of armour. The reason it was 'knocked out' was that there was no defence once the army had broken and the Maginot Line outflanked. Plus of course weak will politically and among much of the people.
 
None of that applied to Britain, which had the defensive line of the Channel and naval superiority to control it. In the Battle of Britain it also established air superiority.
 
About the only German hope that was left was to break the will of the British people (as had happened to France), and the only weapon it had left was night-time terror bombing. Which didn't work.
 
(Actually the Battle of the Atlantic still had to come, but that's another story.)
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 27-Jan-2007 at 06:07
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 12:52
I think I already mentioned that the first London bombardment was done accidently, and was not a serious major operation. The organized bombers bombed London by accident, since they were originally heading towards Britain's radars.. Germans did not possess radars at that time, and confusion in air operations were not rare.
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
Aleksandr01 View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl
Avatar

Joined: 18-Dec-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 33 		  Quote Aleksandr01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 15:44
Originally posted by pekau

If you put it that way, I can't really argue.... winners make the history after all. I am merely pointing out that without Allied reinforcement (machines, weapons, and supplies), Stalin's propaganda, Hitler's ignorance due to his hatred towards Slavik people and tons of expendable souls... Russia could not have made a great accomplishment. We saw the result when such factors listed above did not happen... Russia' unconditional surrender in late WWI.

    Russia defeated Hitler's war machine, the same one that tore through France, Denmark, and Northern Africa and conquered all of Central and Eastern Europe. The same one that caused outrage among the world's citizens, and struck fear into the hearts of the world's democratic nations. This 5 million man war machine ripped apart all it's enemies that faced it on land until it met the Russians.

    I'm not sure if you know of this, but Russia had a revolution around the time that it dropped out of WWI, and the two occurences do happen to be linked together.
    During the fighting in the Eastern front, Russia fought by themselves and faced multiple enemies i.e. Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottoman Empire, and they were still able to hold their own pretty well. They underwent numerous offensives into Poland and Galacia, and got very close to threatening the German capital. When their offensives broke down and were halted, they did not alow themselves to be pushed back too far. They were able to keep the Germans and the Austro-Hungarians at a safe distance from their capital and their main economic and political centers.  They had success in holding back the last German counter-offensives until the civil unrest got the better of the country and it was forced to drop out of the war due to internal strife and political upheaval.
    But the Germans made a smart decision here, as they knew that the Russian armies could not fight them if there was a revolution going on in their country, so they did not let Russia surrender without paying a heavy price. So, Russia was forced to concede a lot of their land at the treaty of Brest-Litovsk so that they could fight their revolution without anybody attacking them from the outside. But if it weren't for the Revolutionaries, the Russians could have defeated the Central powers and made them sign a treaty so that they would not lose their land. It was only the stiffness felt by the general public towards their country that made the Russians unable to defeat the Germans and Austro-Hungarians in WWI.
Back to Top
Dilvish View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 102 		  Quote Dilvish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 17:23
man i feel like snagin ur avatar sooo much...it would go wit my banner
Back to Top
Dilvish View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 102 		  Quote Dilvish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 17:33
i did im comftorable with it, but if u dont like me having it, i can change it, in the meantime ill look for other eagles or maybe a nice golden crown
 
 
Alright i gor 3 other back-up avatars in case u want me to change it.


Edited by Dilvish - 27-Jan-2007 at 17:44
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 18:07
Originally posted by Aleksandr01

Originally posted by pekau

If you put it that way, I can't really argue.... winners make the history after all. I am merely pointing out that without Allied reinforcement (machines, weapons, and supplies), Stalin's propaganda, Hitler's ignorance due to his hatred towards Slavik people and tons of expendable souls... Russia could not have made a great accomplishment. We saw the result when such factors listed above did not happen... Russia' unconditional surrender in late WWI.

    Russia defeated Hitler's war machine, the same one that tore through France, Denmark, and Northern Africa and conquered all of Central and Eastern Europe. The same one that caused outrage among the world's citizens, and struck fear into the hearts of the world's democratic nations. This 5 million man war machine ripped apart all it's enemies that faced it on land until it met the Russians.

    I'm not sure if you know of this, but Russia had a revolution around the time that it dropped out of WWI, and the two occurences do happen to be linked together.
    During the fighting in the Eastern front, Russia fought by themselves and faced multiple enemies i.e. Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottoman Empire, and they were still able to hold their own pretty well. They underwent numerous offensives into Poland and Galacia, and got very close to threatening the German capital. When their offensives broke down and were halted, they did not alow themselves to be pushed back too far. They were able to keep the Germans and the Austro-Hungarians at a safe distance from their capital and their main economic and political centers.  They had success in holding back the last German counter-offensives until the civil unrest got the better of the country and it was forced to drop out of the war due to internal strife and political upheaval.
    But the Germans made a smart decision here, as they knew that the Russian armies could not fight them if there was a revolution going on in their country, so they did not let Russia surrender without paying a heavy price. So, Russia was forced to concede a lot of their land at the treaty of Brest-Litovsk so that they could fight their revolution without anybody attacking them from the outside. But if it weren't for the Revolutionaries, the Russians could have defeated the Central powers and made them sign a treaty so that they would not lose their land. It was only the stiffness felt by the general public towards their country that made the Russians unable to defeat the Germans and Austro-Hungarians in WWI.
 
Austria-Hungarian forces were almost negligble in WWI except for conflicts in the Balkans and Italy. Austrai-Hungarian forces were crushed by advancing Russians until Germans came to the rescue.
 
Mutinity was all over Russia. Russia's incapability frustated many Russian officers... and some soldiers would even shoot their own commanders. Many officers committed sucide or were sent to Siberia... or join the revolutionary movements. In Stalin's time... this would not have been possible since his mastery of propaganda would brainwash Russians to fight until there would be no Russians....
 
Tsar's incapable leadership as well as being charge of Eastern Front allowed the revolution to be in success. Tsar could easily put down the revolutionary guards by force... but he didn't. He just gave up. It should be noted that first revolution was not by the communists... but by Duma. The Provincial Government was born, and Communists were forced to go hiding.
 
Revolution was successful when one Russian commander attempted to overthrow the gov. Fearing this, provisional government released many Bolshevik members and allowed them to bear arms for country's defense. This is when the Bolsheviks' military were named "Red Guards". How stupid is this move? You do not protect the meat loaf from the tiger by bringing in the lion!
 
It was the government's stupid move that allowed revolution to be in success. Not because Turks, Austrians and Germans forced Russia to surrender. Germans did not even seriously attacked Russia. Austria-Hungarians were busy with Italians and Serbs... and Turks were trying to pull things together and resist Western power in the Balkans.
 
By the time Russia surrendered, over 5 million perished. That's huge. Russia would have died out as a civilization if the war continued. With Germans' few divisions, they countered all types of Russian attacks. And the Allies did a poor job supporting the Russia since the Turks stopped the supply route to Russia... and Baltic was seized by Germans... And this is where Americans come in for supply... but that that time.... transportation to Russia by Pacific was long, expensive, and they could have been easily intercepted by the revolutionary movements. 
 
Now, imagine if Germans suppressed the French and attacked Russia with full strength in WWI? Moscow would be taken, and Russia's only alternative, St. Petersburg, would be taken out at ease.
 
Same concept for WWII, except the leaders in WWII were smarter. But then, the military gap became even larger compared to WWII... and German invaders were more in numbers, which should be an advantage since Russia's population grew as well. The only tanks that could match Germans' are T-34, which frequently broke down during the battle. Starvation was common, and if Hitler combined all forces and taken out Russian cities one by one... they would have made it. Divide division by 2. One goes for Moscow, another to Caucaus Mountain. Force from Moscow to Petersburg and reinforce the Germans in the Caucaus Mountain to Stalingrad. Make a death kill, retreat to Volga river like French did... and continue the slaughter. Circle the Russians that are out of Stalingrad and wipe them out. Come back to Stalingrad and finish the kill.
 
But mostly, Germans coming as liberators rather than executioners... that would ensure Germans' victory. Russians were tired to Stalin's regime (And why not? I would just surrender if Hitler did not hate Russians so much). In the beginning of war, many Russians just surrendered. But after realizing that Germans were worse than Stalin, they sided with Stalin.
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7050 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 08:53
Yes, Hitler's greatest mistake in the East was that he did not come as a liberator from Stalinism. I was taught in the army that in the first few days of the campaign, a force equivalent to three Russian armies (say 300,000 men) surrendered to the Germans.
 
However, it then became obvious that Hitler came not as a liberator but as a nationalist and racist oppressor. There were no more massive surrenders.
 
But how could Hitler have done otherwise? He WAS a nationalist and racist oppressor and that was the whole rationale for the drive eastwards. Otherwise there was no point in the war at all.
 
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 17:30
Well, I would have invaded Soviet Union if I was Hitler. Soviet Union's huge manpower, vast amount of raw materials, and Rommel/Soviet attack to oil fields in Middle East would practically guarantee the Axis' victory. How long could America's economical power survive without oil? How long would any nations survive?
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
west49ur View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6 		  Quote west49ur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 20:13
WHERE THE HELL IS CANADA, WE DID AS MUCH AS AUSTRALIA AND USA
Back to Top
west49ur View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6 		  Quote west49ur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 20:15
NOT TO MENTION, WINSTON CHRUCHILL SAVED THE WORLD FROM HITLER. THE ONLY REASON YOUR NOT SPEAKING GERMAN RIGHT NOW IS BECASUE CHRUCHILL AND BRITAIN SAVED US. NOT TO MENTION IS THE THE STUPIDEST MISTAKE FOR NAZI GERMANY TO INVADE USSR. THAT MEANT THEY HAD TWO FRONTS TO WORRY ABOUT AND HITLER IS STUPID FOR THAT. IM CANADIAN BY THE WAY AND NOT BRITSIH
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 20:18
Originally posted by west49ur

WHERE THE HELL IS CANADA, WE DID AS MUCH AS AUSTRALIA AND USA
 
In WWII? Granted, their military was efficient compared to other powers... but Canadians never managed to get enough forces to fight in Western and Italian fronts. Even when they reintroduced conscription... much of the conscripted forces did not fight since WWII ended by that time, leaving more scars between French Canadians and English Canadians with no impact on WWII.
 
 
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
west49ur View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6 		  Quote west49ur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 20:19
I can tell you are very smart pekau
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 20:23
Originally posted by west49ur

I can tell you are very smart pekau
 
Ha, haven't heard that comment since I passed my physics test... But no, I am nor really smart. You should see posts from moderators... how they typed over thousands of posts still makes me wonder...
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
west49ur View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6 		  Quote west49ur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 20:24
true say
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3342 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 20:27
Originally posted by west49ur

NOT TO MENTION, WINSTON CHRUCHILL SAVED THE WORLD FROM HITLER. THE ONLY REASON YOUR NOT SPEAKING GERMAN RIGHT NOW IS BECASUE CHRUCHILL AND BRITAIN SAVED US. NOT TO MENTION IS THE THE STUPIDEST MISTAKE FOR NAZI GERMANY TO INVADE USSR. THAT MEANT THEY HAD TWO FRONTS TO WORRY ABOUT AND HITLER IS STUPID FOR THAT. IM CANADIAN BY THE WAY AND NOT BRITSIH
 
Against popular misconception, Churchill's greatest achievement was to keep Britain's moral. He made many stupid moves that allowed Nazi Germany to endure. (Ex. Allowing routes between Italy and Rommel's troops even though Britain had the sea supremacy).
 
Hitler going to USSR was indeed a poor choice... but that may not have been the cause of Nazi Germany's destruction. The fact that Hitler's hatred against Slavik people clouded his judgement. Gott, I don't want to type this again... see my previously typed posts for details...
 
And West49ur, I think other members would appreciate if you don't type with every single letters capitalized. It hurts my eyes...
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.171 seconds.