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  Quote tzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bulgaria
    Posted: 14-Jan-2005 at 06:01

Yes, you are right Kubrat. There are so much, that we don't know about the Thracians. This mask, i think, belongs to the one of Greatest thracains ruler Sevt III and there is so much tombs in "the valley of thracians rulers" with which we are not acquainted

Most of people even don't know that Orfey wasn't greek but thracian and he has been living in territories of today's Bulgaria in area of the Rodophs and river of Marica. Also somewhere in Bulgaria is a place where Alexandar The Great has been chosen to be a king. And if it be discovered it will be equal to discover the holy graal, because this is a sanctuary of Dionisous (the god of wine and he also is a thracian) and there thracians have done their holy rituals and boded the future.About stronghold Perperikon which is one very mysterious place and we know only a little about it. Even some weeks ago we discovered his try name. And also thracians rulers are joined in the Troian war on the side of Troi.

We will be witnesses of very interesting events in the coming years!!!!!

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  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2005 at 19:32
Due to the enthusiasm here about Bulgaria, I have started a project to make a longer article for the main site.

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1846& ;PN=1&TPN=1


Edited by Kubrat
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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2005 at 20:31
Originally posted by Kubrat

Due to the enthusiasm here about Bulgaria, I have started a project to make a longer article for the main site.

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1846& ; ;PN=1&TPN=1


I enjoyed your article. I knew bits  and pieces about bulgarian history, but this puts them into a serious historical context.
Could you write something about Bulgare-Frankish alliances?
I am also glad that Soviet era haze is coming down on history of Bulgaria.
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  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2005 at 21:39
Yup, thanks .  I'm just hoping I find the time to finish it completely.
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  Quote JasSum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 19:18
Good propaganda. Too bad that in all those points you put a lot of lies.

1. Samoil is a MACEDONIAN tzar.
Why? WEll first of all he recived the crown from Rome not from Konstantinopol. Obvious reasons. He was found of the erretic movemant also known as "bogomili". And even more important, he was fighting AGAINST the roman empire (now knowns as eastern roman empire or byzant) So the crown he recived was from Rome, and can't be linked to any other crowns.

2. Bulghk-ar, the origin is obviuos. Even today anyone that went in bulgaria can notice one good point. The people that are the origin of the state are of mongol origin. Todays mixture of those mongols with slavic, macedonian, thracian, turish people are known as bulgars.

3. About the mask. 3 of them were found in Macedonia, but during the occupations they were "borowed never to return".


Stop spreading lies.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 20:58

Originally posted by JasSum

Good propaganda. Too bad that in all those points you put a lot of lies.

1. Samoil is a MACEDONIAN tzar.
Why? WEll first of all he recived the crown from Rome not from Konstantinopol. Obvious reasons. He was found of the erretic movemant also known as "bogomili". And even more important, he was fighting AGAINST the roman empire (now knowns as eastern roman empire or byzant) So the crown he recived was from Rome, and can't be linked to any other crowns.

2. Bulghk-ar, the origin is obviuos. Even today anyone that went in bulgaria can notice one good point. The people that are the origin of the state are of mongol origin. Todays mixture of those mongols with slavic, macedonian, thracian, turish people are known as bulgars.

3. About the mask. 3 of them were found in Macedonia, but during the occupations they were "borowed never to return".


Stop spreading lies.

That is correct,I agree with you all this is propaganda.

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  Quote tzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 12:54
I am not so sure as you that /Samuel/ is macedonian tsar.  He has moved capital from Preslav to Ohrid, because Preslav were conqueted from Byzatine emperor Ioan and about the mask it has been found only  before some months and territories which has never been called Macedonia - east from town of Stara Zagora if you don't believe me look on the map! I have never lied for anything my dear boy!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 18:24

Originally posted by tzar

I am not so sure as you that /Samuel/ is macedonian tsar.   

Are saying that Bulgaria was ruled by two kings at same time, one Boris and other Macedonian King Samuel  immposible or in Bulgaria evrything is possible.Ebate krvta tvoja tatarska

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  Quote JasSum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 08:34
I am talking about the golden mask in the museum in sofia. The throne was moved to Ohrid when Ohrid was rebelated from roman army (byzant army).

And trust me, i study this.

And as i thought, you cant coment on the rest of my reply ..
:}
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 10:27

Originally posted by Macedonian

Ebate krvta tvoja tatarska

Please do not write in language other than english, it's against the rules of the forum and disrespectfull to the rest of the forumers. There's a non-english part of the forum for such discussions.

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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  Quote tzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 14:29

Yiannis don't pay attention to such people like him. If you want I can translate to you.

To Macedonian- my dear boy Boris I Michael was ruling from 852 to 889 and Samuel 997-1014 and please DO NOT INSULT ME! Do you understand me or want to tell you on Bulgarian ....ooh I'm sorry..... on Macedonian!

JasSum - First I don't want to comment other part of your message because i said it in one of my previous post. Bulgars are turks tribes, not mongols- they never have been and never will be. Second- About Samuel, I'll just ask you this -everybody here know that the Byzantine emperor Basil II called himself "Bulgar-slayer" after battle near Kluch. So my question to you is simple - just explain us, why he /Basil II/ did not call himself "Macedonians' slayer" after according to you he had fought against the "Macedonian" tsar.Third after Samuel capital was also moved to Prespa /I think/ and after him there were another 2 tsars- Gavrail-Radomir and Ivan Vladislav, but about them you /i mean the macedonians/ don't know or most of you don't know.

I  don't want to trust you........

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  Quote JasSum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 20:12
Ostrogorski is pretty sure when he wrotes that Samuil has nothing with Bulgaria. He had nothing with the "yellow race".
About Vasil II. There were some indications that he got that name after fighting bulgars on the eastern border of the empire. Macedonia is on the west. Your statemant that bulgars are turks in origin is giving more relevance to this. Turks were on the eastern border of the empire as well as some of them left on the balkans.
And as we know he was killed people on the east, and he killed noone from samuils army. He tooked their eyes, but he killed noone. And his nickname is slayer. So think again before accepting everything your nogood govermant gives you as history.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 20:31
Originally posted by Yiannis

Originally posted by Macedonian

Ebate krvta tvoja tatarska

Please do not write in language other than english, it's against the rules of the forum and disrespectfull to the rest of the forumers. There's a non-english part of the forum for such discussions.

Yanko thank you for the info.But he speak macedonian and we can understand each other.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 21:55
Originally posted by tzar

Yiannis don't pay attention to such people like him. If you want I can translate to you.

To Macedonian- my dear boy Boris I Michael was ruling from 852 to 889 and Samuel 997-1014 and please DO NOT INSULT ME! Do you understand me or want to tell you on Bulgarian ....ooh I'm sorry..... on Macedonian!

JasSum - First I don't want to comment other part of your message because i said it in one of my previous post. Bulgars are turks tribes, not mongols- they never have been and never will be. Second- About Samuel, I'll just ask you this -everybody here know that the Byzantine emperor Basil II called himself "Bulgar-slayer" after battle near Kluch. So my question to you is simple - just explain us, why he /Basil II/ did not call himself "Macedonians' slayer" after according to you he had fought against the "Macedonian" tsar.Third after Samuel capital was also moved to Prespa /I think/ and after him there were another 2 tsars- Gavrail-Radomir and Ivan Vladislav, but about them you /i mean the macedonians/ don't know or most of you don't know.


 

The son of Peter ,Boris ruled 969-972

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 03:26

Originally posted by Macedonian

Yanko thank you for the info.But he speak macedonian and we can understand each other.

My name is Yiannis so I'd appreciate it if you could spell it correctly.

When it comes to the "mutual understanding" part, you and JasSum, same as Tzar who's Bulgarian, can understand what you write - since you speak the same language - but the rest of the forumers don't.

So, once again, write in languages other than english only in the "non-english language forum"

Here it is for your convenience: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=20

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 03:56

Originally posted by JasSum


And as we know he was killed people on the east, and he killed noone from samuils army. He tooked their eyes, but he killed noone. And his nickname is slayer. So think again before accepting everything your nogood govermant gives you as history.

He devestated King Samouel's army! I don't understant where do you get the things that you write.

Here's Ioannes Skylitzes' record of the battle:

The emperor [Basil II] did not relent, but every year he marched into Bulgaria and laid waste and ravaged all before him. Samuel was not able to resist openly, nor to face the emperor in open warfare, so, weakened from all sides, he came down from his lofty lair to fortify the entrance to Bulgaria with ditches and fences. Knowing that the emperor always made his incursions through [the plain] known as Campu Lungu and [the pass known as] Kleidion ('the key'), he undertook to fortify the difficult terrain to deny the emperor access. A wall was built across the whole width [of the pass] and worthy defenders were committed to it to stand against the emperor. When he arrived and made an attempt to enter [Bulgaria], the guards defended the wall manfully and bombarded and wounded the attackers from above. When the emperor had thus despaired of gaining passage, Nikephoros Xiphias, the strategos of Philippopolis, met with the emperor and urged him to stay put and continue to assault the wall, while, as he explained, he turned back with his men and, heading round to the south of Kleidion through rough and trackless country, crossed the very high mountain known as Belasica.

On 29 July, in the twelfth indiction [1014], [Xiphias and his men] descended suddenly on the Bulgarians, from behind and screaming battle cries. Panic stricken by the sudden assault [the Bulgarians] turned to flee, while the emperor broke through the abandoned wall. Many [Bulgarians] fell and many more were captured; Samuel barely escaped from danger with the aid of his son, who fought nobly against his attackers, placed him on a horse, and made for the fortress known as Prilep. The emperor blinded the Bulgarian captives -- around 15 000 they say -- and he ordered every group of one hundred to be led back to Samuel by a one-eyed man. And when [Samuel] saw the equal and ordered detachments returning he could not bear it manfully nor with courage, but was himself struck blind and fell in a faint to the ground. His companions revived him for a short time with water and smelling salts, and somewhat recovered he asked for a sip of cold water. Taking a gulp he had a heart attack and died two days later on 6 October.

 

Some relevant reading: http://www.deremilitari.org/REVIEWS/Stephenson_basil.htm

http://www.geocities.com/nbulgaria/bulgaria/kleidion.htm

http://www.findword.org/sa/samuil-of-bulgaria.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/encyclopedia/battle_of_kleidion

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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  Quote tzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 04:47

[/QUOTE]

The son of Peter ,Boris ruled 969-972

[/QUOTE]

Boris I Michael is a son of khan Presian and this who you are talking about Boris II was ruling only one year 970-971 and was killed when truing to run out from Constantinopole.... so what about him???. After him tsar became Roman/977-997/ and then Samuel/997-1014/.

....But why did you write only this sentence on macedonian then?

JasSum I can show you much maps of Europe from that time, but I can see Bulgaria only on the west border of the empire  Even you don't know what you are talking about. First you maintain the thesis that bulgars are mongols and now you are agree that they are turks!

About Basil II: its not written by me or any bulgarian propagandist

From 986 until 1014 there was warfare between Byzantium and Bulgaria, interrupted from time to time by Basil II's intermittent expeditions to settle crises on the eastern front. Basil II enlisted Venetian help in protecting the Dalmatian coast and Adriatic waters from Bulgarian aggression. Year by year he slowly penetrated into Samuel's territory, campaigning in winter as well as summer. In 1001 Basil liberated Philippoupolis, in 1003 Verroia, Larisa, Servia, Skopia, and Edessa in Macedonia, were also liberated by the Greek army.

During this period the region of Kalavria prospered. The cities of Kroton, Vari, Righion, Taras, Ydrous, Kallipolis in southern Italy were the centers of greek literature, commerce, and education. Aghios Nilos, Vartholomaios and Ioannis Philagathos were the greatest scholars, in the region of Kalavria. The Byzantine rulers of these regions are called Katepano. But these regions are in constant threat from Arab invasions and pillages. In 1003, a Venetian fleet under commandment of doge Petros II Orseolos saved the city of Vari from arab siege. The Venetians helped, because they had signed a treaty with Basil, which gave them access through Ellispontus for their commercial activities, and they, in return were obliged to defend Greek cities in southern Italy, from arab raids.

Finally, holding northern and central Bulgaria, he advanced toward Samuel's capital, Achris (northern of Prespes lakes), and won the crushing victory, that gave him his nickname, "Slayer of the Bulgars". The battle took place in Kleidi (Kimvaloggos), on 29 July 1014. His general Nikiphoros Votaniates managed to surround the enemy defence lines, causing the Bulgars to surrender in a state of panic. It was then that he blinded the whole Bulgarian army, leaving one eye to each 100th man, so that the soldiers might be led back to the Tzar who died of shock shortly after seeing this terrible spectacle. Thus the revived Bulgarian kingdom (that stretched from adriatic to black sea and from Dounabe river to Thesally), after decades of wars against the Greek state was incorporated into the Byzantine Empire. But only on 1018, Basil completed his campaign against Bulgarians, and then he visited the provinces of his empire, who were released from the bulgarian threat. It was then that he visited Athens to pay his respects to the great capital of ancient greeks. Later he sailed from Piraeus to his capital Constantinople, where he was received with great honors and entered through Golden Gate

And about Ostrogovski - is  he this who you called the founder of today's Macedonia. It's so funny - he is a bulgarian /born near Kjustendill or Blagoevgrad/ and was working for the Serbians' government and after this for serbians' propaganda, but this which is more funny of all is that he has never spoken macedonian. This great founder never even tried to said a word on macedonian......

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  Quote tzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 04:57

Yiannis just open one textbook of macedonian history and you'll be shocked from this which you will be reading

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  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 09:47
Originally posted by Macedonian

Originally posted by Yiannis

Originally posted by Macedonian

Ebate krvta tvoja tatarska

Please do not write in language other than english, it's against the rules of the forum and disrespectfull to the rest of the forumers. There's a non-english part of the forum for such discussions.

Yanko thank you for the info.But he speak macedonian and we can understand each other.

That he can understand you is not the point . The point is as Yannis said - It is against the rules of the forum and rude to the other members so please refrane from the use of other languages in all but the forign language forum.

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  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2005 at 20:09
Besides, recently, they found a border stone from Tzar Samuil's reign, specifically stating he was Tzar of the Bulgarians.

Ostrogorski is pretty sure when he wrotes that Samuil has nothing with Bulgaria. He had nothing with the "yellow race".


Yes, we are very yellow.  As yellow as this smiley , in fact, I have a Mongolian cousin! (No disrespect meant to Mongolians, I'm just trying to prove a point).  No Bulgarian is 'yellow'.

3. About the mask. 3 of them were found in Macedonia, but during the occupations they were "borowed never to return".


Sources please?

So think again before accepting everything your nogood govermant gives you as history.



That's a really hypocritical statement.  Where did you get your information?  From a government whose propaganda was aimed at making Macedonian Slavs feel seperate from every other peoples on the Balkans!
Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
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