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Desperado View Drop Down
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  Quote Desperado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bulgaria
    Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 08:18
The "torlakian ethnic" group looks just like those invented by the serbs-like the shopic one, with their different from the Bulgarian "shopic" language and the Macedonian one. Both (Macedonian and torlakian) ethnic groups spread only in the territories of former Yugoslavia, taken from Bulgaria(and Byzantium) during the XIII-XIVth centuries-long after the establishment of Bulgarian nation of which these people were part. Actually the serbs captured Belgrade in the XIII-th century and moved to the east even later-just in the outbreak of the turkish conquest. Actually the Romanians and the Greeks have more rights (ethnic and cultural) on ancient Macedon heritage than "Macedonians".
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 18:20
By "Romanians" you probably reffer to the Balkanic Vlachs. Their corect name is Aroumanians.

we cannt say that Aroumanians or Albanians have more rights than other nations, as long Serbs, Bulgarians etc. are not realy Slavic but a mixture of Vlachs with Slavs. We may speak about them as Slavized Vlachs.

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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 19:02
Originally posted by Menumorut

By "Romanians" you probably reffer to the Balkanic Vlachs. Their corect name is Aroumanians.

we cannt say that Aroumanians or Albanians have more rights than other nations, as long Serbs, Bulgarians etc. are not realy Slavic but a mixture of Vlachs with Slavs. We may speak about them as Slavized Vlachs.
 
What about modern Romanians, Menumorut? Are they also mixed slavs with Vlachs?
.
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  Quote Desperado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 19:47
Well you're generally right, there are no 100% pure nations (especially in the Balcans), but we can talk about areas with predominant ethnic groups. Yes we can talk about slavized vlachs(and vlachised slavs too btw), but we cannot claim the historic heritage of people just because we live on the same land they had once lived. Names of the themas when Byzantium reestablished it's rule on the Balcans clearly show were did the ancient population of Macedon go-in the south-eastern Thrace near Adrianopolis (from where infact the Macedonian Byzantine dynasty originate-with it's most famous member Basil II Bulgarslayer). So ethnically there's no current nation in the Balcans that can represent crearly the population of the ancient Macedon, but culturally closest would be Greece. Genetically closest must be the population of countries with large proportion of pre-slavic invasion elements-such as Greece, Roumania and Albania.
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 20:53



What about modern Romanians, Menumorut? Are they also mixed slavs with Vlachs?


All the romanic population in Balkans and Carpatians was called Vlachs in the early Middle Age and later.


The Balkanic Vlachs have less Slavic influence in thir language than the Romanians.

Surely, the Slav genetic and cultural contribution of Slavs to the Romanian heritage exists, which is their percentage is hard to say. I heard that Romanians are geneticaly close to Bulgarians and Serbians, dont know in what sense, dont know they are related to others Slavs too or is just the Thraco-Dacian common heritage in the blood of Romanians, Serbs and Bulgarians.   

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  Quote BG_Zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 15:53
Originally posted by Mortaza

tengri=God? It looks like old name was also turkish.

 

Turk not turkish,there is a diference.
Can we just get along.
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 07:00
I guess you actually mean Turkic, which differs from Turkish?
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  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 09:32

Whell if u say Slavenised Vlachs (serbs romanians wore slavenised Vlachs) and so on and so forth...

Whats wrong with the concept of Slavenised Macedonians...?
I don't see a problem here.
 
Plus I got Vlach friends who are "Macedonianised" they are both my best friends and i don't care that they have a vlach heritige... they claim to be Macedonians(a sign of assimilation)... and as far as I know they don't mind this "assimilation".
 
I don't see what the fuss is about...
 
Time is our ONLY witness.
!!!Слобода или Смрт!!!
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  Quote Desperado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 10:10


Originally posted by theMacedonian

Whell if u say Slavenised Vlachs (serbs romanians wore slavenised Vlachs) and so on and so forth...


Whats wrong with the concept of Slavenised Macedonians...?
I don'tsee a problem here.


    What's wrong with the concept of Hellenised Macedonians then?
    What's wrong with the concept of Romanised Hellenised Macedonians then?
    What's wrong with the concept of Slavenised Romanised Hellenised Macedonians then?
    What's wrong with the concept of Bulgarised Slavenised Romanised Hellenised Macedonians then?
    What's wrong with the concept of Serbised Bulgarised Slavenised Romanised Hellenised Macedonians then?
    What's wrong with the concept of Hellenised(for a 2nd time!!!)Serbised Bulgarised Slavenised Romanised Hellenised Macedonians then?

When after several decades some "Macedonians" will begin to talk about Albanised Serbised Bulgarised Slavenised Romanised Hellenised Macedonians, only then there will be something wrong with the concept?
According to your logic, for sure now we can talk only about Macedonised Neanderthals.
    

Edited by Desperado - 14-Nov-2006 at 10:27
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 12:36
Well, I personally think that the ancient Macedonians were firstly Hellenized, then Romanized, then probably barbarized (during the barbarian invasions, which led to the next step: the "evacuation" to the new tema Makedonia near Adrianople, where they were additionally:), Slavinized, Armenianized (the Paulicians weren't confined only to Philipoplis), Bulgarianized, Turkicized. There was quite a lot of mixing in this area and absolutely no nation (especially the ancient ones) has managed to remain even just a little "pure"!
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  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2006 at 06:06
Originally posted by theMacedonian

Whell if u say Slavenised Vlachs (serbs romanians wore slavenised Vlachs) and so on and so forth...

Whats wrong with the concept of Slavenised Macedonians...?
I don't see a problem here.
 


I ve asked you before but i didnt receive any answer-
1)Do you believe that when Slavs arrived in 600 AD + found any people feeling ethnically Macedonians?

2)Do you know that most the region of modern FYROM was inhabited by a non-macedonian tribe-the Paionians? (Paeones/Paiones)

(a part at the south by Macedonian tribes,and a part at the north(incl Skopje-the capital) by Dardanians )

3)Also,can u explain me ,how the Greek population of Macedonia was found in the area ?
Did they came down from Mars?







Edited by Brainstorm - 17-Nov-2006 at 06:08
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  Quote thebluehorde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 22:56
Bulagaria is a beautiful country and i think bulgarians are pretty nice people.
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 04:25
Thanks! Smile
Although I wouldn't say we're any better than anyone else - we just have our good sides and bad sides, like everyone else.

Btw, instead of making a new thread, maybe I could post here a question that's been bugging me for awhile: In most of the Bulgarian books, studies, articles etc. the Nagyszentmiklos (Nagi Sent Miklosh, as it's usually transliterated to Bulgarian) treasure is being claimed to be of Bulgar origin. However, as one article stated, this is the treasure, which has probably been claimed by the most nations - Khazars, Avars, Magyars, Pechenegs, even Cumans. And I haven't really seen any clear evidences, which could direct us to one side or another? So, does anyone here know why do we think that this treasure is Bulgarian? I could post some more things later, if I have some time...
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 04:34
Very interesting Nike.In many foreign articles(including Osprey's books) the treasure of nagy sent miklosh is claimed by many other nations(including Goths),but not Bulgars,althourh there are many evidences that proove its Bulgar origin.
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 04:53
And I ask again - what exactly are these evidences? F.e. I've read in one of Prof. Ovcharov's books that the style of art and some other things are the closest to the Bulgar style of art. But he didn't explain what exactly are the similarities in this style of art. I'll have to read that other article again though, as it seems to have a more detailed information on the treasure.
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 05:04
I read about the period this treausure was made.Somewhere in the region between Black and Caspian sea in 5-7th century AD.And that region was populated by Bulgars or other tribes which later were assimilated by Bulgars.Another evidence is that the treasure was found in area that was part of the First Bulgarian Empire.Another thing is the inscriptions from some of objects,especially the one from the golden cup.I read that some turkish proffessor was the first who translated it and later a bulgarian proffessor correct his translation(I cant remember names).They both say that the inscription contain the name of Asparuh.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 09:11
WOW!!! I see some 14 or what pages of Bulgaria here.

That makes me wanna ask, how many of you wish to write something of Bulgaria (of the Empires', of some tzars' or whatever)... please express your feelings.Big smile
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 12:30
Originally posted by rider

WOW!!! I see some 14 or what pages of Bulgaria here.

That makes me wanna ask, how many of you wish to write something of Bulgaria (of the Empires', of some tzars' or whatever)... please express your feelings.Big smile
 
I am not sure what do you mean....
.
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 23:34
Well, rider, I believe that somewhere in the beginning of the thread tzar or red lord were already asked to write something, but then it wasn't posted in the main site. However, since now we have a bit better "presence" in the forum, I guess someone could have the time to compile something (of his own, not copied from somewhere else) and present it to you. I hope that if we finish our current project at work today or tomorrow, we could get some "rest" and I could help with that too (preferably, with someone else's help as well). What exactly would you prefer? General Bulgarian history, history of the rule of some ruler or something else?
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2006 at 06:38
What I would prefer is the thing that you most know of (for I have NO knowledge of Bulgaria).

But the wisest thing I think sohlud be about general history of some period.
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