Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedCan Trkiye Enter to northern ıraq??

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 9>
Author
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Can Trkiye Enter to northern &#305;raq??
    Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 08:33
Originally posted by Feanor

Originally posted by DayI

Why are you speaking English now?

Totally irrelevant. Nobody forces me to do so.
Nobody forces you but you know you must speak english with other people, that's the main code conduct of this forum. English is accepted as the main language... Otherwise you'll be warned, if not you'll be banned.

So now that doesnt happen in Turkey :D

At your own corner you can speak your own language, but not on topics with English speaking people got it now? 

So all people living in Turkey must accept this law, otherwise they can search for another country where they can speak their own language everywhere period.
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 09:30
Cent
Bulldog, I am against the Turkish regime, not the people.
 
Am I ridiculous, wasn't you in Eastern Turkey? IN KURDISTAN?
 
Umm but that's so hypocritical, firstly Turkey doesn't have a regime, there is a democratically elected government, now you can criticise all you like but the government was voted in.
 
Also, Kurdistan? where is this huh, I've been to Eastern Turkey why don't you instead of lying on a beach in Alanya....Plus even the wildest Kurdish maps don't include all of Eastern Turkey, majority of Eastern Turkey is not predominantly Kurdish so I don't know what your going on about.
 
I mean common arn't you embarrassed? you say that you hate the "regime" but the money you spent helps the country. You arrived safely back, man you spent your holiday in the country, how on Earth can you spend a holiday there. It's like me preaching about how awfull a country is, then letting it slip that actually I enjoy my holiday's there, its a bit hypocritical don't you think. There's hundreds of countries in the world and you choose TURKEY LOL
 
 
Cent
What I find ridiculous is that first you come here and claim you're British, and then from no where you're Turkish.
 
What's the problem? I'm Brittish, I never realised hating Turks was a requirement to proove this LOL Alot of Britt's go on holiday every year to Turkey and like the country and people.
 
So how was Alanya have a good time in the evil state of the Terrible Turks.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 10:13
Bulldog and Cent: Change your course of "discussion" immediately. This was an itneresting and civil discussion on this topic for once, don't ruin it.

Edited by Zagros - 21-Jan-2007 at 10:14
Back to Top
Gkhan View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jan-2007
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 14:22
i don't understand why we give visa to people like him.
 
Very sad indeed :(
 
Maybe trying to go north iraq and have a nice holiday would be better :)
Back to Top
Yiannis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2329
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 14:33
Originally posted by Gkhan

i don't understand why we give visa to people like him.
 
Very sad indeed :(
 
 
Because you need tourists!  Wink
 
 
Jokes apart, what is sad is here is simply your mentality.
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 14:45

Anyone can get a tourist visa from Turkey.. just jump off the plane and go to immigration control and give them the equivalent of 10.00GBP and they put a sticker in your passport.

Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 16:07

True.

      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Lmprs View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 30-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 18:56
Originally posted by DayI

So all people living in Turkey must accept this law, otherwise they can search for another country where they can speak their own language everywhere period.

Turkey belongs to those who live on it. Nor you, neither Turkish state can deny this fact.
Back to Top
bg_turk View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2347
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 19:49
Originally posted by Mortaza

Sunni Kurds are religious people(Just look at the second party at kurdish areas, not left, not right, but religous AKP.) but religion is only a small part of it. Giving ural rights of kurds is acceptable. Federation is not.
 


I agree. Turkey is an integral unitary state. All of its citizens are equal regardless of their ethnic origins.

Federalism is just going to create artificial boundaries within the state, which are totally unacceptable, and a threat to the unity of the nation.

Back to Top
TheGame View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 18-Dec-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 85
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 20:57
Originally posted by bg_turk



Federalism is just going to create artificial boundaries within the state, which are totally unacceptable, and a threat to the unity of the nation.



Is it just me or do many of you not know why many Kurds feel the way they do...

You do realize that it has been only 16 years since the turkish government stopped calling Kurds "mountain Turks" and you guys are speaking of equality?

Sorry if this may seem a bit forward, but the very few that are actually criticizing the government or military are getting blasted.
Join the:


Iranian History Forum


Everyone is welcome.
Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 21:38
Originally posted by Feanor

Originally posted by DayI

So all people living in Turkey must accept this law, otherwise they can search for another country where they can speak their own language everywhere period.

Turkey belongs to those who live on it. Nor you, neither Turkish state can deny this fact.


Originally posted by bg_turk


Turkey is an integral unitary state. All of its citizens are equal regardless of their ethnic origins.

Federalism is just going to create artificial boundaries within the state, which are totally unacceptable, and a threat to the unity of the nation.



thanks bg_turk, you saved my 5min. of my whole life.
Back to Top
Lmprs View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 30-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 00:29
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by Feanor

Originally posted by DayI

So all people living in Turkey must accept
this law, otherwise they can search for another country where they can
speak their own language everywhere period.

Turkey belongs to those who live on it. Nor you, neither Turkish state can deny this fact.
Originally posted by bg_turk

Turkey is an integral unitary state. All of its citizens are equal regardless of their ethnic origins.Federalism is just going to create artificial boundaries within the state, which are totally unacceptable, and a threat to the unity of the nation.
thanks bg_turk, you saved my 5min. of my whole life.

Did I even use the word 'federalism'?


Edited by Feanor - 22-Jan-2007 at 00:31
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 02:52

equality is not such important word.  If everyone forced to  become atheist, everyone is equal. If everyone is forced to become Turks, everyone is equal. If everyone is forced to walk unveiled or veiled, again everyone is equal.

If everyone put jail again everyone is equal. Kurdish(not limited with them, add albanian, bosniaks, laz, armenian, zaza, greek vs.) nations should be equal with Turkish nation at Turkey.

This mean, changing name of Turkey, changing name of Turkey nation(Not Turkish nation.) Changing national langauge.(add turkish to other langauges, or just dont accept any langauge.)
 
Equality between people does mean nothing. Specially when people are not equal.(They are sunni, alevi,kurd,turk, religious, atheist.)
Back to Top
Lmprs View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 30-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 04:11
You don't seem to know the difference between 'same' and 'equal'. Need a dictionary?
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 04:24
me? It is not me who say, Turkey treat everyone equal. It is others, turks who dont like turks, secular people who dont like religious one(about veil issue, If I dont remember wrong, one of them was you.), sunni people who dont like alevis. Ext.
 
Hmmm, I know meaning of equality. Treat everyone equal. Our problem with equality is not persons, but ethics. Turkey treat every individual equal.She dont treat every ethic equal..
 
By the way, can  you built a sentence with using "same" word?It will be more beneficial, so you can teach me difference between same and equal. So I can take some light from your feyz, intelligent guy?
 
 
Back to Top
Lmprs View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 30-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 06:35
Honestly, I don't understand you Mortaza. OK, here is my explanation:

If we force our citizens to speak one language, have one culture etc., we make them 'same'.

If we grant them the same rights and let them do whatever they want freely, we make them 'equal'.
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 07:50
If we force our citizens to speak one language, have one culture etc., we make them 'same'.
 
Thanks. using a word form a sentence help much. I am not talking about asimilation.
 
I think my english will not be enough, but I will try.
 
I am talking about objective equality.It means everyone equal against to law.Their personal trait is not important.
 
For exp, If a 10 year child get some punishment with a 40 year old man, It is  objective equality. Every human being are same and they are adult.(Even an 10 year child.)
 
Now when It comes Turkey, Turkey see every people as Sunni, secular turk. It is not important If you are a kurd, alevi, or christian. So we can see stupidy like teaching alevi and christian childs to sunni islam.
 
Subjective equality is treating every person acording to their personal traits( religion, age, sex, past life, ext.) Pratically It is impossible to have totally subjective equality at a state, because all of 72.000.000 million people is different..
 
So problem is how much we should have subjective equality. We should divide people acording to what?
 
should we care their religion(Christian, alevi, sunni)? their langauge and nation?(kurds, turks, armenians..)  or their politic ideas.(Religious, secular.)You can add a lot different standarts  for this.
 
do turkey divide their people acording to this? No. Turkey is a secular turkish sunni state.
 
If you are a turkish sunni religious one or turkish alevi secular. Okey life still goes..Just dont have job with states.
 
If you are a kurdish sunni religious or turkish alevi religious.Life is a little more difficult.
 
If you are a christian religous armenian or alevi religious kurds, God help you.
 
So equality is a vague word. We should decide, how much our subjective equality should become.
 
For ex, you divide people kurds, armenian, and turks.You say everyone of them should have their cultural rights.
 
But when It comes to secular and religious part, you did not divide  people. You treat everyone like secular.(No veiled women should enter univercity.)
 
So equality is not a magical word.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
Lmprs View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 30-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 08:15
You are a little bit confused. Please think twice before writing anything and stop inventing terms.

Originally posted by Mortaza

For ex, you divide people kurds, armenian, and turks.You say everyone of them should have their cultural rights.

The only natural division among humans is made through social classes.

Other than that, I don't divide anybody. Kurdish language should be free for all, not just for Kurds.



Edited by Feanor - 22-Jan-2007 at 08:21
Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 08:54
Originally posted by Feanor

Honestly, I don't understand you Mortaza. OK, here is my explanation:

If we force our citizens to speak one language, have one culture etc., we make them 'same'.

If we grant them the same rights and let them do whatever they want freely, we make them 'equal'.
Speaking one language doesnt means "one culture", in every province of Turkey they have different "gelenek grenek" or may it like "culture" in english.

I do ask you, is mardin same as Aydin? Is kars same as afyonkarahisar? Many people out there do know Turkish very well, but one language doesnt means one same culture.

You know what Ismet Inn said on negotiation of Lausanne treaty? English wanted include kurds also in the minorities, he refused "how your gonna do that, I am a kurd myself".

I cant believe you that you live in Turkey dude, you are being brainwashed or something, "equal rights" etc and that bullsh*t that you come up with. If they wherent threaten "equal", how does it come that one of the beloved presidents is a Kurd (turgut zal rip), dont sell bullsh*t here I certainly wont buy that.
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 09:02
You are a little bit confused. Please think twice before writing anything and stop inventing terms.
 
I dont think creating terms are a guilt.that is not an argument, but argumentless.Attacking person is an easy shoot.
 
Secondly, I created this terms, because you didnot understand what I meant.(I should add, objective and subjective are used terms.)
 
Anyway, I am out. I cannot waste my time with someone, attacking people instead of ideas.
 
 "Need a dictionary?" ,"You are a little bit confused." , "Please think twice before writing anything and stop inventing terms. " are not arguments. These are cheap games.
You know what Ismet Inn said on negotiation of Lausanne treaty? English wanted include kurds also in the minorities, he refused "how your gonna do that, I am a kurd myself".
 
If they are majority, why did we ban this majority langauge. Or why dont we teach this majority langauge at schools?
 
I cant believe you that you live in Turkey dude, you are being brainwashed or something, "equal rights" etc and that bullsh*t that you come up with.
 
It is not totally bullsh*t but let become realist.(not idealist.)
 
 What is your answer to kurdish problem? dont tell me, our only problem is PKK. PKK is a result. If you have an answer, I am ready to accept it. This giving all rights of kurds policy is a little risky.
 
If they wherent threaten "equal", how does it come that one of the beloved presidents is a Kurd (turgut zal rip), dont sell bullsh*t here I certainly wont buy that.

do zal know kurdish? also dont forget, ozal aim was to change name of country. He wanted to change Turkey with anatolian republic.So a kurd, zal is not happy with name of country. Even When he becomes republic of that country.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 9>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.234 seconds.