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The kingdom of Sands

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Decebal View Drop Down
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The kingdom of Sands
    Posted: 08-Jan-2007 at 16:52
I didn't know about this lost Saharan kingdom until recently. Apparently the Garamantes formed a state in what is today Lybia for over a 1000 years, from about 500BC to about 600BC.
 
 
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  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2007 at 18:12
Wow. That is a very interesting article. I have never heard of the Garamantes before this; thanks for letting us know about them!
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2007 at 03:05
Any  relations with Egypt and Carthage?
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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2007 at 15:30
O yeah history of North frica Lamp! See this article (spanish, tomorrow i will post it translated) about the garamants with several notes about the roman expeditions

http://www.satrapa1.com/articulos/antiguedad/garamantes/garamantes.htm




Edited by Ikki - 10-Jan-2007 at 15:34
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2007 at 07:16
Originally posted by Spartakus

Any  relations with Egypt and Carthage?
 
They were one of many Libyan tribes and were reffered to as Libyans by the Egyptians. It is said that the modern day Tuaregs use a script based on the earlier script used by these people. These people must have been the old cravan leaders and drivers as the t uareg are to this day. Aslo it may interesting to note that the saharans were noted for not just their ability to intimately navigate the sahara, but also the salt trade. Salt was the the then gold, so charting the salt routes would IMO chart out the extent of their reach and travel.
 
Aslo if you look at the area called Fezzan it is referred to as Targa by the Tuareg and the Tuareg heartland. The early Garamasans must have had relations with their closer neighbours in the Niger delta and must have been refered to by them.
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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2007 at 15:21
Garamants

Two are the peoples named by the classics as principal adversaries of Rome in the Saharan area, on the one hand, the nasamones, for other, the garamants, of the above mentioned we will treat in this occasion.

Established from immemorial times in the field of the Fezzan, the garamant kingdom was representing the only political solid entity, and with recognized prestige, in the whole Saharan space comprised between Egypt and the coasts of the Atlantic Ocean. From his capital, Garama, the king of the garamantes was controlling an extensive territory splashed with oasis where there were distributed a big number of tribes submitted to his power. The wealth and power of this state was coming from the benefits that there was providing to him the control of the only commercial routes that were communicating the coasts of Libya with the sub-Saharan Africa. Although the volume of the commercial exchange between these two areas is not evaluated yet properly and, possibly, it does not represent not of far the one that will exist some centuries later during the Muslim domination, that was allowing the garamant king of shift, and to the domineering caste, to support a recognized standard of living (there are famous, for acquaintances, the chariots in which the noblemen were moving garamantes).

Nobody knows with accuracy the volume or type of the commerce that could be established between the Saharan or sub-Saharan Africa and Rome. The traffic of wild animals signs up almost surely, or perhaps that of slaves, or that of ivory ... perhaps actually a little of everything, but as comment, there are only assumptions.

During the classical era one believes that certain areas of the Sahara were in the last step of his process of desertification, there still existed numerous ecological niches that were allowing, much more than at present, his colonization and the development of, relatively, numerous human groups. This habitability will turn in the mid term into a danger for the Roman Empire, unable to control, or reaching, these dispersed emplacements used by the annoying tribes. The key moment comes with the introduction, or rather, the generalization, of the use of the camel for the berber tribes. Till then big areas of the Roman border had remained safe from the incursions of looting of these populations, with the arrival of the camel, the radio of action of the razias increased, so much, that the whole frontier line remained already practically opened to the incursions of the attackers.

The garamantes in the history.

From Herdoto: "More on the south there live through the garamantes, in the country of the wild animals, the people of whom everybody flees, avoiding the dealing with them. They neither have weapon of war nor can defend oneself." Although the latter it turns out to be contradictory with the following paragraph of his history dedicated to the garamantes. These garamantes hunt, on his chariots, the Ethiopians troglodytes. This is the description that, on the garamantes, the Greek Herdoto does in the year, more or less, 420 B.C.



For the history known about the state garamante, during the first centuries of the era, it was we can deduce that, to the traditional rivalry between the colonies placed on the coast Libya and the tribes of the interior, probably under sovereignty garamante, Rome imposed a progressive and active politics of containment. Under August, will take forward a fascinating campaign of invasion. In 21 B.C. the Proconsul of Africa, Cornelio Balbo, carried out a deep penetration in the Saharan territory with the target to put in waist the annoying nomadic tribes subject to the king garamante. Ultimately it was a question of striking the same capital of the unattainable enemy, and to the time, exploring in the possible the Saharan area.



Comment of the photo (Ruins of Garama):
In the year 21/20 B.C. Cornelio Balbo, Proconsul of Africa, commanded the heart attack to the garamant territory. It was a question of striking strongly a slippery enemy and simultaneously of moving forward the Roman border in this part of Libya to get ready, from now on, of the annoying incursions of the marauders of the desert. Neither is that to disdain this species of scientific interest that is seen in other many examples during Augustus's reign, in this case the exploration of the unknown Sahara desert.

The campaign was taken pass successfully, it is of supposing that with one legion and auxiliars, approximately 8.000 or 10.000 men at most. The Roman troops penetrated deeply in the desert and took a big number of unknown cities, and between them, the most important, Cidamus and Garama, the proper capital of his enemy, somepeople go so far as to think that, even, it was possible to have come up to the proper river Nger, thing, on the other hand, highly improbably.


Cornelio Balbo gained reputation and obtained the victory, it was the first time that was granted to a foreigner, since it was coming from Hispania, and since it was a custom, the army paraded in procession along the cobbled streets of the metropolis carrying images of all the conquered cities and of the facts in those who took part.

Considering the nature of these people, the peace with Rome, which although on the role it was imposed, could not prevent the actions of low intensity either. During Tiberius's reign, the so-called insurrection of Tacfarinate involved also tribes submitted to the garamantes, whose king hasn't doubts to give his neighbor certain number of light troops who, with the distance, dreamed in the Urbs as the threat of a warriors big army. After the defeat of the rebel, the garamants ran to Rome to present to the Emperor, in person, his most sincere excuses. For this time, the western border of the garamant domain was established in the region, inside, of Leptis Magna.



Instructions for the map:

-Roman frica and the Garamants, by Satrapa1
-Brown/green line: "Line that show the limit in african territory of any roman thing"
-Later Empire roman fortifications
-Roman Empire under Augustus

-Red arrow: campaign of Cornelius Balbo
-Communications lines
-Nasamones: main saharan peoples in the I century AC


As a result of the first blows from Rome, we know that the garamants reacted with astuteness, blocking up then the water wells that were closer to Roman territory to make this way impracticable any new attempt of penetration his oasis. During the reign of Vespasian, during a new war untied after the incursion that the garamantes did against the grounds of Leptis Magna, it became possible to find a short cut that it was saving four days of march for the deserts, the legatus Valerio Festo attacked in direction of the capital of the enemy, again the garamants turned out to be forced to come to terms and to sign an agreement of peace.



Archeological site over the hill that domain the ruins of Garama, the ancient garamant capital



For the geographer Ptolomeo we know that the governor Sptimo Flaco, in the decade of 110-120 of our age, realized again a long campaign, after a struggle prolonged against the incursions garamantes, in that again, and after a march of three months, stuff himself the proper capital of the African ones, Garama.

On the other hand, there exists the evidence of which the Roman Julio Materno, come from Leptis Magna, had been received hospitably by the king of the garamantes, and with him went to the war against the Ethiopians. According to his history, after a long march of four months affirmed that he come to the grounds of Agysimba, of the king of Ethiopia, grounds in which the rhinos were abounding.

During the Later Empire, Rome was applied in the task of placing, in the key points of step, a series of defensive fortifications, the so-called African limes, nevertheless, this measurement I turn out to be completely insufficient when come the moment and like i had already commented, between the African ones expanded the use of the camel. Now the classic routes of Saharan communication remained overcome for the biggest radio of action obtained with the use of the camels, the Romans turned out to be this way exceeded in the task of containing the annoying incursions of the men of the desert.

My references towards this people of the Sahara finish here, it is supposed that the Garamant kingdom survived up to the arrival of the Arab invasions. The archaeological, small remains, which stay of this civilization are protected now hardly by the UNESCO.

http://www.satrapa1.com/articulos/antiguedad/garamantes/garamantes.htm





Edited by Ikki - 11-Jan-2007 at 15:23
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2007 at 16:59
Garamantes were Berbers, also known as Moors in Middle Ages' Spain times. They are the caucasian peoples of North Africa. Some examples of today are the Kabiles, and people like Zidane and Omar Khaddafi.
 
 
Today some Berbers have admixture with Subsaharans, like the Tuaregs, but the typical North African Berber look very much like some Italians, Spanish, Portugueses and other European peoples.
 
Berbers have appeared in history with different names.
 
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 21:35
Excellent pictures, Ikki... as usual.
 
I was wondering, is it relevent to a lost city due to heavy sandstorm that is often known as "Desert's Atlantis" or something like that? I heard that Quran talks of such lost city...
     
   
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 16:21
I've heard of that, but I believe that this city was in Arabia rather than the Sahara. I'll try and see if I can dig something up....
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  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2007 at 19:14
I watched a show on the History channel today called "The Sahara", which, incidentally, was about the history of the Sahara desert. The program had a segment on the Garamentes! It said that because of the amount of trade between Carthage and the Garamentes allowed Carthage to become a superpower, at least until Rome came along Big%20smile.

Also, apparently when the Garamentes were around horses could still be used to travel through the Sahara instead of camels.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2007 at 02:17
Great post Ikki!

Is there a roman "thing" in gambia/sengal? What thing and when? What is that grey line doing there?
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