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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Famous Battles! -> Post Your Favourite
    Posted: 22-Dec-2007 at 06:02
Yes we are still voting Balaam. We should probably finish up the voting some time soon though.

Knights - Battle of Assaye

White Fare - Battle of Pavia

Jubelu - Battle of Mohi
- Battle of Patay
- Battle of Hittin
- Siege of Constantinople (which one, may I ask?)
- Battle of Acre
- Battle of Manzikert

Penelope - Battle of Pandosia (1 vote)

Omnipotence - Battle of Changping (1 vote)

Illirac - Great Stand on the Ugra River

Justinian - Battle of Guagamala

Sparten - Third Battle of Panipat

Harry Zhe - Kursk or Stalingrad

Darius of Parsa - Salamis
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  Quote Balaam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2007 at 03:48
Is voting still going for the last list? If so I'm gonna vote for the Battle of Changping.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2007 at 14:19
Among my favourites would be Kursk, Stalingrad, and a bunch of the battles from Herodotus which i'm sure didnt happen quite like he tells them ;D
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 05:19
Unfortunately Sun Tzu, Agincourt has recently been done in this thread, so would you be able to pick another battle? Sorry Unhappy
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  Quote Sun Tzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 01:52
I have one battle, how about Agincourt?
 
A tired, retreating british army made up of peasants and few nobles armed with simple longbows defeats an entire French army of knights.
 
This battle is significant becuase it ushered in the beginning of the end of knighthood and thus the end of the middle ages.
 
The end of of the noble knight being replaced by a cheap and simple weapon.
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  Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2007 at 05:42
All of these battles would not exist if the Persians were victorious at The battle of Salamis. The Persians almost won this battle (they made some tactical errors)
 
 


Edited by Darius of Parsa - 31-Oct-2007 at 22:32
What is the officer problem?
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 08:25
Really, Sparten? I can't find it anywhere in the thread. Never mind though - I'll include it! Smile
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 07:55
Hey I thought I nominated Battle of Panipat (third)?
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 05:15

OK. Here's an update on the battles nominated:

Knights - Battle of Assaye

White Fare - Battle of Pavia

Jubelu - Battle of Mohi
- Battle of Patay
- Battle of Hittin
- Siege of Constantinople (which one, may I ask?)
- Battle of Acre
- Battle of Manzikert

Penelope - Battle of Pandosia

Omnipotence - Battle of Changping

Illirac - Great Stand on the Ugra River

Justinian - Battle of Guagamala

Sparten - Third Battle of Panipat

That should do us for now. You can all vote once, for one battle that you want to be written about. Vote away! After a week or so, whichever has the most votes, can be written about.Smile

1 vote for Pandosia...

- Knights -



Edited by Knights - 27-Sep-2007 at 08:31
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  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2007 at 05:06
I don't remember it being done, so... how about Guagemela/Arbela?
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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 08:55
Originally posted by Knights

Illirac, I believe Rider has already nominated and submitted an article on the Battle of Kulikovo (See page 5), so do you want to choose another battle, and hopefully we can get some other's to nominate battles too.

So far:
- Battle of Pavia
- Battle of Agincourt

Once we get 4 battles nominated we shall start voting.

 
then i chose
Great stand on the Ugra river...again: Tartaro/Mongols vs Russia(100 years later then Kulikovo)
For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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  Quote Omnipotence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 06:27
The battle of ChangPing is a definite favorite study. The battle lasted for more than 2 years, and it only ended when the Qin conscripted all men of military age into the battle and thus tipped the tide against the Zhao. The length and the massive conscription resulted with an army of a couple hundred thousand clashing on both sides. Apparently both the Qin and the Zhao viewed it as a very important battle, and that's an understatement. The defeat probably costed the entire reproductive male population of the Zhao.
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 05:49
The Battle of Pandosia, in which an invading army of Macedonians and Epirotes, led by Alexander of Epirus, were completely annihilated by an Italian army consisting of Samnites, Lucanians, and Bruttii. Fought in 331 BC, significantly marking the end of Greek colonization in Italy. The Greek/Macedonian phalanx had not suffered such a defeat in over a century. Alexander of Epirus was slain by a Lucanian during the melee. Though this isnt my favorite battle, it is a very significant one, especially since the strategies and methods used in this battle, would always be used in future campaignes against Greece.

Edited by Penelope - 26-Sep-2007 at 05:50
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  Quote Slick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2007 at 07:37
Sorry guys, I just kind of left without saying anything. I got sick and then I got busy with stuff. After that I just forgot about this forum...:(
 
If it's not too late, here is a description of the Battle of Sekigahara:
 
================
 
Background: During the 16th century, Japan was an arena. Different clans throughout the Japanese isles competed for supremacy. One man, a retainer of the warlord Oda Nobunaga, managed to conquer all of Japan in the year 1590, however. This man was Toyotomi Hideyoshi.
 
The Battle of Sekigahara was fought between supposed Toyotomi loyalists commanded by Ishida Mitsunari and a sort of coalition commanded by one of Hideyoshi's old rivals (although one who eventually joined him) named Tokugawa Ieyasu. It was fought just a few years after the death of Hideyoshi. At the time that Hideyoshi died, Tokugawa Ieyasu held a fief worth about 2.5 million koku (A History of Japan by James Murdoch cites his fief as worth 2,557,000 koku, but numbers vary). Although Toyotomi Hideyoshi had appointed Tokugawa Ieyasu as one of his 5 regents, Ishida Mitsunari, one of Hideyoshi's trusted retainers, believed that Tokugawa Ieyasu was a deceptive character who ought to be eliminated. Mitsunari attempted to have Ieyasu assassinated (source: Sekigahara page 10 by Anthony J. Bryant), and when at length this failed, he allied with a group of daimyo to oppose him. 4 out of 5 of Hideyoshi's other regents (aside from Ieyasu himself) sided with Mitsunari, but numerous other warlords throughout Japan, who had either been unhappy during Toyotomi Hideyoshi's tenure in office or distrustful of Mitsunari himself, joined the Tokugawa camp. All in all, there were few neutrals, and for the first time since Hideyoshi's Kanto Campaign against the Hojo clan in AD 1590 (a year before the Toyotomi unified the land completely), Japan was once more a battlefield.
 
 
Prior to the fight: As noted above, the Battle of Sekigahara was not an isolated event. Before and even after the battle, there were sieges being fought by supporters of both Mitsunari and Ieyasu. For example, a very large force under Tokugawa Ieyasu's son, Hidetada, laid siege to Ueda castle, but this force was defeated by the experienced general Sanada Masayuki. In the northeastern regions of Japan, the Mogami and Date clans (which had aligned themselves with the Tokugawa camp) clashed with, and defeated, the Uesugi and Satake (which had sided with Mitsunari). The Sengoku Busho shireba shiru hodo (thank you Kitsuno of Samurai Archives for this information) states that around this time, the Date clan had about 3,000 soldiers and 1,200 guns. The Date's superior supply of firearms may have been one of the reasons they were able to so successfully contain Mitsunari's allies in the East. Other sieges included one conducted against the renowned scholar Hosokawa Yusai by the Onoki and another one at Otsu. In the latter siege, it was said that peasants sat down on the hills nearby the castle and observed the battle from a distance.
 
The first real fight between Ieyasu and Mitsunari's main forces was at a skirmish nearby the Kuise river (Source: Sekigahara by Anthony J. Bryant, pages 48-49. Much of the rest of the information in this Sekigahara summary is derived from the same source, as well as samurai-archives.com). One of Mitsunari's trusted officers, Shima Sakon, took half of his troops across the river while setting the other half up in ambush, and marched alongside an army led by Akashi Masataka. Nakamura Kazuuji, one of Ieyasu's subordinate commanders, attacked Sakon's force, but Sakon withdrew across the river and caught Kazuuji in his ambush. As things started seeming bad for the Nakamura, Tokugawa reinforcements arrived, but as dusk approached, both sides retreated. Afterwards, Mitsunari called a war council to decide on what to do. Shimazu Yoshihiro, the daimyo of Satsuma in Southern Kyushu, recommended attacking the Tokugawa at night time, but this plan was soundly rejected by Shima Sakon.
 
In the end, Mitsunari opted to set up his forces around the village of Sekigahara in a crane formation (which would allow Mitsunari to pincer Ieyasu's forces). A large Mori force was stationed on Mount Nangu in the East, while Kobayakawa Hideaki, with a force of over 15,000 men, camped up on Mount Matsuo to the south of Sekigahara. Below Mount Matsuo, Otani Yosh*tsugu gave several orders to Ishida-aligned generals. Mitsunari himself camped south of Mount Sasao and north of the village of Sekigahara while a gigantic division led by Ukita Hideie positioned itself nearby Mount Tengu. Although the Ishida army had the high ground and was in a position where it could surround the Tokugawa if it attempted to attack, Tokugawa Ieyasu decided to engage Mitsunari at Sekigahara anyways. Marching his forces along the Nakasendo road, Ieyasu set up camp east of Mitsunari's battle array, albeit slightly north of some of Mitsunari's generals positioned on and around Mount Nangu. Fighting began early in the morning of October 21st, AD 1600. Before the two massive armies engaged each other, it was said to have been somewhat foggy...
 
 
^Ishida Mitsunari's forces are in blue and Ieyasu's are in red. Turncoats are in yellow. I added in larger names of the major (and some minor) participants on both sides.
 
 
The Battle!: Tokugawa Ieyasu had given Fukushima Masanori, an ally of his (although one that had originally been a retainer of Toyotomi Hideyoshi's), the privilege of leading the first attack on the Ishida positions. However, one of Tokugawa Ieyasu's closer vassals, Ii Naomasa, pretended to "inspect" the enemy forces first. Instead, Ii Naomasa drove his army of "Red Devils" (crimson-armour clad troops) into Ukita Hideie's unit, and Fukushima Masanori soon followed suit. When the battle had officially begun, the Kyogoku and other clans allied with the Tokugawa charged against Otani Yosh*tsugu's troops.
 
Many Tokugawa units soon afterwards decided to fall upon the soldiers of Ishida Mitsunari, Shima Sakon and Gamo Bitchu. Totalling over 10,000 troops, these units, led by Kuroda Nagamasa, Kato Yoshiaki and others, succeeded in fighting their way up to Mitsunari's position. Makeshift palisades, bamboo fences and so forth had been set up by the Ishida forces beforehand, but these did not deter the valiant Tokugawa forces too well. Shima Sakon was hit by a bullet (probably shot by a gunman under Kuroda Nagamasa's regiment) and withdrew to Mitsunari's main camp. It seemed that at any moment the Tokugawa might make a breakthrough, but Mitsunari's beleagured men put up a good stand. Mitsunari also brought up some cannons to fire on the Tokugawa divisions that were pursuing him. The Tokugawa forces that had assailed Mitsunari's ranks were thus driven back, but a counter-attack initiated by Ishida Mitsunari failed as well. Meanwhile Ukita Hideie and Otani Yosh*tsugu struggled with other Tokugawa contingents. Another of Mitsunari's allies, Konishi Yukinaga, fought with the Terazawa. The battle was a stalemate, and Ieyasu moved his own personal troops forward to get a closer view of the battle situation. Mitsunari worried that his own position would be in danger if he could not quickly rally all his forces to attack.
 
Though Ishida Mitsunari's formation was strong on paper, disloyalty and insubordination undermined its success. Mitsunari believed that if all of his units made an all-out push, they could beat the Tokugawa. Several of Mitsunari's allies were a bit more hesitant, and some of them were downright in favor of switching sides. Mitsunari pleaded with the Kobayakawa, Shimazu, Kikkawa and others to strike Ieyasu's forces, yet the Kikkawa clan on Mount Nangu did not move, and without its co-operation, neither would massive units under Ankokuji Ekei and Mori Hidemoto. Kobayakawa Hideaki had promised to defect to Ieyasu's forces beforehand, but in actuality had resolved to watch to see what side would get a decisive advantage before sending his troops to aid either one. Shimazu Yoshihiro outright rejected Mitsunari's orders (probably because his plan to launch a night-attack on the Tokugawa had been repudiated earlier). Somehow, even though Ieyasu had more deployed men actually fighting on the battlefield, neither side could make a significant gain against the other.
 
Anxious lest he lose the battle, Ieyasu decided to goad the indecisive Kobayakawa Hideaki into doing something to shift the battle's tide. He ordered some of his arquebusiers to fire into the army of the Kobayakawa. Hideaki, roused by this event, then made a quick decision to cast his lot in with the Tokugawa. Springing into action, his troops descended Mount Matsuo and threw their weight against the divisions commanded by Otani Yosh*tsugu. Otani Yosh*tsugu was a leper and had to issue orders from a palanquin because he practically couldn't walk. Nevertheless, he was a skilled general, and had realized earlier that Hideaki might betray the Ishida due to the fact that the Kobayakawa kept ignoring Mitsunari's orders. Thus prepared for this eventuality, the Otani successfully held out against the Kobayakawa for awhile. Unfortunately, Yosh*tsugu's efforts were frustrated by the defections of the Wakizaka, Kuchiki, Ogawa and Akaza shortly after Hideaki's own betrayal. Otani lines were soon broken, and Yosh*tsugu bid one of his retainers, Yuasa Goro, to slice off his head. Confusion, defection and disorganization ruined the Ishida cause, and the men under Ukita Hideie and Konishi Yukinaga began to falter. Soon troops under Ishida-aligned generals were all slaughtered or fleeing. Ii Naomasa pursued a retreating Shimazu battalion, but was wounded by a gunshot. The battle ended in a decisive Tokugawa victory, and by noon, Tokugawa Ieyasu returned to his camp to congratulate his officers on a job well done. Mitsunari took flight.
 
Conclusion: According to Our Oriental Heritage by Will Durant, the battle of Sekigahara left about 40,000 men dead. When the dust clouds were settled, Ieyasu was said to have announced, "After victory, tighten the helmet cords." For Ieyasu, Sekigahara was not the end of his struggle to unify Japan. The Onoki had garrisoned Tanabe Castle, Ishida Mitsunari had fled Sekigahara and was on the loose, and there were still other Tokugawa opponents abroad that needed to be summarily dealt with. Tokugawa Ieyasu's forces took the opportunity after the battle to grab Mitsunari's castle at Sawayama and oust several former Ishida supporters from their fiefdoms. The battle was to leave many samurai, and even former daimyo (such as Chosokabe Morichika), landless and miserable. These samurai were to become 'ronin,' and many of them would eventually pledge their loyalty to Toyotomi Hideyori and oppose Tokugawa Ieyasu later on. Ishida Mitsunari, Konishi Yukinaga, Ekei Ankokuji and other Ishida loyalists were rounded up and put to death, but Ukita Hideie's death sentence was commuted (Hideie was destined to be the last main Sekigahara survivor to die, in fact). 15 years after the Battle of Sekigahara, Tokugawa Ieyasu's forces would win an equally decisive battle at Tennoji against the forces of Toyotomi Hideyori, and the Tokugawa would be masters of Japan for over 2 centuries.
 
Assessment: Oftentimes, people tout Mitsunari's 'incompetence' in military affairs as a reason for his defeat. Mitsunari had accumulated some military experience during various castle assaults against the Hojo clan during Hideyoshi's Kanto campaign (Source: Ishida Mitsunari's bio in the Sengoku Jinmei Jiten, and again, thank you to Kitsuno of Samurai Archives for this information). Mitsunari, though, was still much more gifted at administrative affairs than military ones (he helped Hideyoshi govern, and was also responsible for supervising some cadastral land surveys according to Hideyoshi by Mary Elizabeth Berry). However, there was nothing really wrong with Mitsunari's orders or his positioning in the battle itself. In the end, in my opinion, it was disunion that tore apart the Ishida forces. Had Kobayakawa Hideaki, Ishida Mitsunari's Mouri allies positioned on Mount Nangu, or Shimazu Yoshihiro committed themselves more to Mitsunari's cause, Mitsunari probably could have won the Battle of Sekigahara, or at least put up a much better fight. Mitsunari was actually a skillful and charismatic leader who simply lacked prestige and support from many of his subordinates.
 
According to James Murdoch's History of Japan, the Battle of Sekigahara may not have been as decisive as it is often said to be. If Ieyasu had lost the battle, Murdoch notes that it would not have mattered much because Ishida Mitsunari's Uesugi allies had been kept in check, and Tokugawa Ieyasu's son still was bringing tens of thousands of troops to support his father at the time that the Battle of Sekigahara was being fought. Adding to Murdoch's theory is the fact that Mouri Terumoto and many other Mouri generals were personally relcalcitrant when it came to supporting Mitsunari. Moreover, Murdoch states that Toyotomi Hideyori was still a big threat to Tokugawa dominance after the Ishida were quashed at Sekigahara. In the 15 years after AD 1600, Hideyori managed to gather tens of thousands of ronin to support him. If allowed to expand more, he might have feasibly been able to eventually contend with, and/or supplant, the Tokugawa.


Edited by Slick - 01-Sep-2007 at 06:33
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  Quote Jubelu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 02:29
a lot to me:
 
Battle Of Mohi
Battle Of Patay
Battle Of Hittin
Siege Of Constantinople
Battle Of Acre
Battle Of Manzikert
...
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 19:45
Illirac, I believe Rider has already nominated and submitted an article on the Battle of Kulikovo (See page 5), so do you want to choose another battle, and hopefully we can get some other's to nominate battles too.

So far:
- Battle of Pavia
- Battle of Assaye
Once we get 4 battles nominated we shall start voting.



Edited by Knights - 27-Sep-2007 at 05:09
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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2007 at 11:27
I vote for the battle of Kulikovo  Tartaro-Mongols vs Russians
For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2007 at 16:32
Nice to see this thread started up again...
I present the Battle of Assaye.
Duke of Wellington takes on a force of 50,000 Marathas, winning against great odds.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2007 at 16:30
I present Battle of Pavia. The sides are the Holy Roman Empire and France-Spain Alliance..

Edited by white_fare - 12-Jun-2007 at 16:32
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2007 at 07:11
OK everyone, I think that it is time to start a new 'battle presenting'. For those of you are new to the process, you present a battle of your choice, with a brief (one line maximum) overview, possibly who fought it and when it was. Then, after a week (or when suits), the presented battles are collaborated and given another week or so to be voted for. This is when you vote for which battle you want to see written up in great detail, to add to the All Battles project.
So people, get presenting, and soon we'll start voting (not before instructed if that's OK - and only one vote)Thumbs%20Up

- Knights -
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