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The Mughal Empire: Turkish or Indian?

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  Quote AP Singh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Mughal Empire: Turkish or Indian?
    Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 10:53
Originally posted by Sparten

The Mongols were'nt alone in celebrating their victory with the local fauna. Lots of others did that as well until the 20th century. Which is why conscription had to be introduced no doubt, half the attraction was gone.

 

 
We have to take these kind of celebrations in comparative terms. For example the British troops are said to be most desciplined than others in Iraq a few years back. We could not expect the same from the army of Mongols and Mughals. The Indians princes since olden days were educated on the the subject that how to treat the defeated armies.
 
even during the Mughal era Shivaji's general captured some women for Shivaji and was expecting some good prizes from the king like in manner it was given in the areas ruled by Mughal empire but Shivaji in fact punished the General and returned those muslim women with respect and safty to the place of their manfolk. This is the reflection of Indian culture.
 
In a similar fashion Sher Shah Suri punished his own son who disrespected some brahmin woman during his rule but unfortunately he could not rule India for longer period and could renovate only Grand Trunk Road ( Even toady called Sher Shah Suri Marg in India) because he was Indian since afghanistan was part of Indian Empires earlier. Unfortunately the destiny of India was written to be ruled by the illiterate Mughals who never built anything on their own but renovated the existing buildings by removing all the wall stone of the existing buildings and installing the same in reverse manner to hide the truth.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 11:28
AP Singh, the above theorys detract from the purpose of this thread.It is now clearly an Alternative History thread. And their it shall be moved.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 16:26
[[/QUOTE]
 
Chingghis Khan was a Budhist and so his son grandson Halaku.  
[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
 
No, they were Tengrist.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 17:52
When you call Kushuns Tokharians it must be noted that the Persian name for the region of Balkh and to the north was Tokharistan, so it does not mean that they were related to the people of the Tarim basin especially if they were Iranic proper speakers.
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  Quote sourjya9007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2014 at 06:37
The Mughal Empire is absolutely an Indian Empire. To explain my stand we need to first define what "Indian" and India refers to.
The Vedic Culture, which we generally denote as the original Indian culture was not developed by the aboriginals of the subcontinent, but by Aryans who drifted from central Asia around 4000 BC.
Similarly the Mughals had arrived from India from central Asia/Afganisthan (not very clearly stated in history).
The basic difference between the British and the Mughals is that the Mughals stayed in India. They ruled India from India and not from London. The Mughals generated wealth and they used it solely on their territory in India and did not send any proceeds to Persia or Arabia.
British India is a colony rather than a continuous empire. Britain used most of the money/resources generated from India to meet the needs of Britain, like to fund the world wars. As a result Britain and India have two different cultures. They have influenced each other but never had there been a merger between the two like that of the Mughals.
In its essence, the difference between Mughal rule and that of British rule is basically the difference between an empire and a colony.
 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2014 at 00:44
Too all posters here, I have seen a map, wherein the printing of the letter "N" (as in Indian) is sometimes reversed, as in a mirror image.

Were these letters sometimes done so just for fun? Or did the reversal actually serve some other purpose?

Ron

Edited by opuslola - 25-Jan-2014 at 00:48
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2014 at 17:16
Originally posted by opuslola

Too all posters here, I have seen a map, wherein the printing of the letter "N" (as in Indian) is sometimes reversed, as in a mirror image.

Were these letters sometimes done so just for fun? Or did the reversal actually serve some other purpose?

Ron


We'd need to know what language the map was in. Some alphabets do use a reversed 'N' as a regular letter (Russian, for example).
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2014 at 13:49
i dont think the uzbeks would be happy to hear your opinion
yomud are free people
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  Quote astrigun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2016 at 02:42
Does anyone know if ther are any recent descendants of Babur / Timurids living in India or Pakistan?
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  Quote Akif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 11:37
Originally posted by Bulldog

In my opinion both, although the Mughals were actually Timurids as it's founder was Babur, their aim was not "nationalist" or "colonialist". They were a muslim empire and did not try to assimilate or change the people's in the area, infact some Mughal leaders respected local traditions and culture alot. What happened was they didn't hinder or stop the indegenous culture. Elements of Turkic culture, language and so on naturally fused into the native one, also the rulers married local Princesses aswell, also Persian and Ottoman Princesses .

I think the main point it, they didn't try to change the local's, force them to assimilate or adopt a new language, didn't try to make them feel that their ways were wrong.

Here is an interesting article



CONTRIBUTION OF TURKIC LANGUAGES IN THE EVOLUTION AND DEVELOPMENT OF HINDUSTANI LANGUAGES
K.Gajendra Singh

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/turkish.html   
~Registered as a Turkish empire in India on the flag of the Republic of Turkey.the British are talking idly, struggling to erase the Turkish name from that region. So a Turk-India Empire. You can say.This is a definite knowledge, you can not call a Turk a mongol.
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  Quote Akif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 11:47
Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Bulldog

In my opinion both, although the Mughals were actually Timurids as it's founder was Babur, their aim was not "nationalist" or "colonialist". They were a muslim empire and did not try to assimilate or change the people's in the area, infact some Mughal leaders respected local traditions and culture alot. What happened was they didn't hinder or stop the indegenous culture. Elements of Turkic culture, language and so on naturally fused into the native one, also the rulers married local Princesses aswell, also Persian and Ottoman Princesses .

I think the main point it, they didn't try to change the local's, force them to assimilate or adopt a new language, didn't try to make them feel that their ways were wrong.

Here is an interesting article



CONTRIBUTION OF TURKIC LANGUAGES IN THE EVOLUTION AND DEVELOPMENT OF HINDUSTANI LANGUAGES
K.Gajendra Singh

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/turkish.html   
~Registered as a Turkish empire in India on the flag of the Republic of Turkey.the British are talking idly, struggling to erase the Turkish name from that region. So a Turk-India Empire. You can say.This is a definite knowledge, you can not call a Turk a mongol.
 Tarihsel gerçekler kimseyi değiştirme hakkına sahip olamaz, bu şekilde olduğu anlamına gelmez (Mugal) çünkü işe yaramaz, Türklerin devlet kurma geleneği inkar edilemez.Historical facts can not have the right to change anyone, it does not mean this way (Mughal) because it does not work, the tradition of the Turks to establish state can not be denied.
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  Quote Akif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 11:53
Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Bulldog

In my opinion both, although the Mughals were actually Timurids as it's founder was Babur, their aim was not "nationalist" or "colonialist". They were a muslim empire and did not try to assimilate or change the people's in the area, infact some Mughal leaders respected local traditions and culture alot. What happened was they didn't hinder or stop the indegenous culture. Elements of Turkic culture, language and so on naturally fused into the native one, also the rulers married local Princesses aswell, also Persian and Ottoman Princesses .

I think the main point it, they didn't try to change the local's, force them to assimilate or adopt a new language, didn't try to make them feel that their ways were wrong.

Here is an interesting article



CONTRIBUTION OF TURKIC LANGUAGES IN THE EVOLUTION AND DEVELOPMENT OF HINDUSTANI LANGUAGES
K.Gajendra Singh

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/turkish.html   
~Registered as a Turkish empire in India on the flag of the Republic of Turkey.the British are talking idly, struggling to erase the Turkish name from that region. So a Turk-India Empire. You can say.This is a definite knowledge, you can not call a Turk a mongol.
 Tarihsel gerçekler kimseyi değiştirme hakkına sahip olamaz, bu şekilde olduğu anlamına gelmez (Mugal) çünkü işe yaramaz, Türklerin devlet kurma geleneği inkar edilemez.Historical facts can not have the right to change anyone, it does not mean this way (Mughal) because it does not work, the tradition of the Turks to establish state can not be denied.
I have even done research to make sure that this is a Turkish empire, an unquestionable fact.Yes AKİF 
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  Quote Akif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 11:55
Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Bulldog

In my opinion both, although the Mughals were actually Timurids as it's founder was Babur, their aim was not "nationalist" or "colonialist". They were a muslim empire and did not try to assimilate or change the people's in the area, infact some Mughal leaders respected local traditions and culture alot. What happened was they didn't hinder or stop the indegenous culture. Elements of Turkic culture, language and so on naturally fused into the native one, also the rulers married local Princesses aswell, also Persian and Ottoman Princesses .

I think the main point it, they didn't try to change the local's, force them to assimilate or adopt a new language, didn't try to make them feel that their ways were wrong.

Here is an interesting article



CONTRIBUTION OF TURKIC LANGUAGES IN THE EVOLUTION AND DEVELOPMENT OF HINDUSTANI LANGUAGES
K.Gajendra Singh

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/turkish.html   
~Registered as a Turkish empire in India on the flag of the Republic of Turkey.the British are talking idly, struggling to erase the Turkish name from that region. So a Turk-India Empire. You can say.This is a definite knowledge, you can not call a Turk a mongol.
 Tarihsel gerçekler kimseyi değiştirme hakkına sahip olamaz, bu şekilde olduğu anlamına gelmez (Mugal) çünkü işe yaramaz, Türklerin devlet kurma geleneği inkar edilemez.Historical facts can not have the right to change anyone, it does not mean this way (Mughal) because it does not work, the tradition of the Turks to establish state can not be denied.
I have even done research to make sure that this is a Turkish empire, an unquestionable fact.Yes AKİF 
If the British know history, Turks write history.
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  Quote Akif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 12:07
Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Bulldog

In my opinion both, although the Mughals were actually Timurids as it's founder was Babur, their aim was not "nationalist" or "colonialist". They were a muslim empire and did not try to assimilate or change the people's in the area, infact some Mughal leaders respected local traditions and culture alot. What happened was they didn't hinder or stop the indegenous culture. Elements of Turkic culture, language and so on naturally fused into the native one, also the rulers married local Princesses aswell, also Persian and Ottoman Princesses .

I think the main point it, they didn't try to change the local's, force them to assimilate or adopt a new language, didn't try to make them feel that their ways were wrong.

Here is an interesting article



CONTRIBUTION OF TURKIC LANGUAGES IN THE EVOLUTION AND DEVELOPMENT OF HINDUSTANI LANGUAGES
K.Gajendra Singh

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/turkish.html   
~Registered as a Turkish empire in India on the flag of the Republic of Turkey.the British are talking idly, struggling to erase the Turkish name from that region. So a Turk-India Empire. You can say.This is a definite knowledge, you can not call a Turk a mongol.
 Tarihsel gerçekler kimseyi değiştirme hakkına sahip olamaz, bu şekilde olduğu anlamına gelmez (Mugal) çünkü işe yaramaz, Türklerin devlet kurma geleneği inkar edilemez.Historical facts can not have the right to change anyone, it does not mean this way (Mughal) because it does not work, the tradition of the Turks to establish state can not be denied.
also  You can see the enemies of Turks in the dumps of history.
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  Quote Akif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 12:25
Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Bulldog

In my opinion both, although the Mughals were actually Timurids as it's founder was Babur, their aim was not "nationalist" or "colonialist". They were a muslim empire and did not try to assimilate or change the people's in the area, infact some Mughal leaders respected local traditions and culture alot. What happened was they didn't hinder or stop the indegenous culture. Elements of Turkic culture, language and so on naturally fused into the native one, also the rulers married local Princesses aswell, also Persian and Ottoman Princesses .

I think the main point it, they didn't try to change the local's, force them to assimilate or adopt a new language, didn't try to make them feel that their ways were wrong.

Here is an interesting article



CONTRIBUTION OF TURKIC LANGUAGES IN THE EVOLUTION AND DEVELOPMENT OF HINDUSTANI LANGUAGES
K.Gajendra Singh

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/turkish.html   
~Registered as a Turkish empire in India on the flag of the Republic of Turkey.the British are talking idly, struggling to erase the Turkish name from that region. So a Turk-India Empire. You can say.This is a definite knowledge, you can not call a Turk a mongol.
 Tarihsel gerçekler kimseyi değiştirme hakkına sahip olamaz, bu şekilde olduğu anlamına gelmez (Mugal) çünkü işe yaramaz, Türklerin devlet kurma geleneği inkar edilemez.Historical facts can not have the right to change anyone, it does not mean this way (Mughal) because it does not work, the tradition of the Turks to establish state can not be denied.
also  You can see the enemies of Turks in the dumps of history.
 http://www.allaboutturks.com/mughal-empire/reign-of-babur/
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 12:42
Please note that this thread is old, and the folks involved haven't been active in some years.



"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Akif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 12:55
Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Akif

Originally posted by Bulldog

In my opinion both, although the Mughals were actually Timurids as it's founder was Babur, their aim was not "nationalist" or "colonialist". They were a muslim empire and did not try to assimilate or change the people's in the area, infact some Mughal leaders respected local traditions and culture alot. What happened was they didn't hinder or stop the indegenous culture. Elements of Turkic culture, language and so on naturally fused into the native one, also the rulers married local Princesses aswell, also Persian and Ottoman Princesses .

I think the main point it, they didn't try to change the local's, force them to assimilate or adopt a new language, didn't try to make them feel that their ways were wrong.

Here is an interesting article



CONTRIBUTION OF TURKIC LANGUAGES IN THE EVOLUTION AND DEVELOPMENT OF HINDUSTANI LANGUAGES
K.Gajendra Singh

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/turkish.html   
~Registered as a Turkish empire in India on the flag of the Republic of Turkey.the British are talking idly, struggling to erase the Turkish name from that region. So a Turk-India Empire. You can say.This is a definite knowledge, you can not call a Turk a mongol.
 Tarihsel gerçekler kimseyi değiştirme hakkına sahip olamaz, bu şekilde olduğu anlamına gelmez (Mugal) çünkü işe yaramaz, Türklerin devlet kurma geleneği inkar edilemez.Historical facts can not have the right to change anyone, it does not mean this way (Mughal) because it does not work, the tradition of the Turks to establish state can not be denied.
I have even done research to make sure that this is a Turkish empire, an unquestionable fact.Yes AKİF 
If the British know history, Turks write history.
 Download [PDF]
The Babur-nama in English (Memoirs of Babur) - Rare Book Society of India
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  Quote Aeoli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 13:44
Name Turkish ??? There is just Turkic in that period. 

so true terminology is Persian-Turkic
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