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Jalaleddin Rumi - Persian Seljuk Poet

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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jalaleddin Rumi - Persian Seljuk Poet
    Posted: 02-Jan-2007 at 17:51

Mevlana is representing a culture,which  is not alive in Iran anymore, but you can find a modern version of it in turkey, sometimes I am just surprised to see how some of turks act freely in thier lives, and romances. So Murtaza could be right at this point, which there are not too many peopel in Iran to experience a real sevda. But still I think he was a persian with a mixed culture of central asia.Thanks to safavies Persia lost many beautiful parts of its culture.

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  Quote Seljuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 05:10
Is/was there any mevlevi order in Iran?

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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 15:20
Originally posted by Seljuk

Is/was there any mevlevi order in Iran?
There are small number of Sufies in Iran, they practice Sema, I think it was more popular in mevlana era.Anyhow in sufi practice you may see some influences from Mitraism( Iranic), and Altaic shamanism(Turkic). I gusse after the immigration of Turks to middle east sufi practice got very popular, and after Turks left Iran the sufi parctice lost its position in Persia.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 16:40
There are plenty of Sufis in Iran, they are of shia and sunni descent. there was recently a battle between them and shia fanatics in Qom.

Estimates are 2-5 million practising members in Iran.

Edited by Zagros - 05-Jan-2007 at 16:46
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2007 at 00:20
Just curious, but is this the same guy, or am i confused?

Edited by Cywr - 09-Jan-2007 at 17:42
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2007 at 06:02
Originally posted by Cywr

Just curious, but is [url=http://www.mevlana800.info/]this['url] the same guy, or am i confused?


it is the same yes and this http://www.mevlana.net/ is a site owned by his relatives!

And there they give answer to whom Mevlana belongs to

The Anatolian Philosopher?
We receive quite a lot of emails at this site and the most often asked question is why we are calling Mevlana an Anatolian philosopher. Although we answer almost all email we receive in person, we thought it may be better if we pre-answer that question here to save time to both parties.

Mevlana wrote almost all of his work in Persian (Farsi or Pharsi, the language of Iran), which was the dominating literary and bureaucracy language of that period. His work is part of the school curriculum in Iran as it is in Turkey. So why not call him Iranian?

When someone is born in a different place than where he became famous, it is usually with the latter place that he is associated with. The famous composer George Frideric
Haendel
was born in Halle, Germany as a German citizen, but he became famous in England and almost all of his oratorios are in English. Nowadays he is mostly known as an English composer; while his name is spelled in the Anglicized way as Handel he is buried at the Westminster Abbey. Nevertheless, we have specifically refrained calling Mevlana Turkish, although Konya had became and stayed a "Turkish" city soon after Mevlana's death.
more... Instead, in our home page we say:

Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi, the great Anatolian philosopher, poet and the father of the Mevlevi sect [...] was born on 30 September 1207 in Balkh in present day Afghanistan. He died on 17 December 1273 in Konya in present day Turkey.

Naturally, in 700 years the world's political map changed considerably. Countries that rule large parts of the world cease to exist (e.g. Ottoman Empire) and countries that used to cover extensive land shrink to become normal size countries that we expect nowadays (e.g. Great Britain and Iran). If you read the quote above you will see that we use the term "present day" next to the countries in where the two cities important to Mevlana's life are mentioned are situated. That is because neither Balkh, his birthplace, nor Konya, the place he spent most of his adulthood and where he wrote all his works are under the jurisdiction of the same countries as when he was alive. Balkh was a city of the vast Persian Empire then and Konya was a city under the jurisdiction of the Seljuks who does not exist anymore.

On the other hand, it is a historical fact that "Rumi" simply meant Anatolian back in time and that is why Mevlana is called Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi. Rumi, from the word Roma, was loosely used for the land of the old Eastern Roman Empire. Even the Seljuk sultanate that ruled Konya while Mevlana was living there was called "Sultanate of Rum." more... and more... It is this fact that made us call Mevlana Anatolian. There has never been a country called Anatolia. Calling Mevlana Anatolian, is the same as calling him Rumi. It is like calling someone European or African.

That is what we thought, but judging from the emails we keep receiving we were wrong in our assumption. We will continue to stand by our term "the great Anatolian philosopher," but at least we try to show you, the reader that we have no intention to "steal" Mevlana's heritage from any country or race. That is against Mevlana's philosophy and it will be the most wrong thing to do for the descendants of Mevlana.

In his own words:

"Come, come over, more over, how long this brigandage? As you are me and I am you. How long this discrimination of you and I?
 
We are light of GOD! Why this separation among us? Why light escapes from light? We are all from the same yeast, our brains and heads too. But under this bowed sky we see double"

Mevlana belongs to everyone.

Celebi Family

PS. May we suggest you to also have a look at this authoritative explanation on the subject by Dr. Ibrahim Gamard.




Edited by DayI - 09-Jan-2007 at 06:07
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2007 at 17:42
Sensible folk.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2007 at 21:55
Video of Rumi poetry with Iranian music & various images.  Poetry starts at the 00:57 point.
 
 
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2007 at 05:43
That was great Hellios.
 
Here is scenes from the Zurkhaneh, where the Pahlavans also practice sufi rituals in their martial arts.
 
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 06:37
Zagros, that's very interesting.
 
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 07:07
Originally posted by Zagros

That was great Hellios.
 
Here is scenes from the Zurkhaneh, where the Pahlavans also practice sufi rituals in their martial arts.
 


They are doing the same rituals from on the sassanian period till now?

if yes, interesting and strange too :)
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 12:31

It is very ancient but, I do not know its exact date of origin, it has aspects from Mithraism, Sufism, Shi'ism and martial skills.

The Zur Khaneh has a very narrow and short entrance, there are two reasons:
 
1.  One is that the Pahlavan must never be so proud, he must bow to enter the Zur Khaneh.  the Pahlavan must be noble and never a bully and use his strength only for good.
2.  If enemy attacks the Zur Khaneh they can only move in one by one in a crouched and uncomfortable way.  I think that it was during Arab occupation this martial art was founded so that Iranians could be battle ready but the enemy would think that they are simply exercising.
 
My dad was a Pahlavan (army champion) and my great great great grandad the most legendary from Western Iran (Hossein e Golzar Kermanshahi), he was poisoned by a competitor (Akbar Khorasani) when he came to fight him at Nasser ul Din Shah's court in Tehran in the late 19th century.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 18:56
Better late than never
 
Originally posted by Molana Jalaladin Rumi

I am neither Christian, nor Jew, nor Zoroastrian, nor Moslem.
I am not of the East, nor of the West,
nor of the land, nor of the sea;
I am not of Nature's mint, nor of the circling heavens.
I am not of earth, nor of water, nor of air, nor of fire;
I am not of the empyrean, nor of the dust, nor of existence, nor of entity.
I am not of India, nor of China, nor of Bulghar, nor of Saqsin;
I am not of the kingdom of 'Iraqain, nor of the country of Khorasan.
I am not of this world, nor of the next, nor of Paradise, nor of Hell;
I am not of Adam, nor of Eve, nor of Eden and Rizwan.
My place is the Placeless, my trace is the Traceless;
'Tis neither body nor soul, for I belong to the soul of the Beloved.
I have put duality away, I have seen that the two worlds are one;
I seek, know, see, and call only one.


Edited by Zagros - 07-Mar-2007 at 18:59
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 07:03
Zagros, what's the connection between Rumi & the guys in that video?
I noticed some whirling, like the Dervishes.
Isn't Dervish a Persian word?
 
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 10:49
Darvish, yes it is -  the connection is that they have sufism mixed in with their doctrine and the whirling they do is exactly with the same purpose, where the soul is meant to leave the body. 
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 23:15
Originally posted by Zagros

Here is scenes from the Zurkhaneh, where the Pahlavans also practice sufi rituals in their martial arts.
 
 
What's the music in the video?
 
Are these images of the Zurkhaneh?
 


Edited by Hellios - 10-Mar-2007 at 23:17
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 23:20
Hey Hellios, the music is Rachid Taha (Barra Barra), it's Arabic.
 
And those are Zurkhaneh images.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 10:41

Molana Poem, Parvaneh sho (become a butterfly), sung by Shajarian and his son - amazing.



Edited by Zagros - 11-Mar-2007 at 10:43
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 17:39
Originally posted by Zagros

Molana Poem, Parvaneh sho (become a butterfly), sung by Shajarian and his son - amazing.

It requires registration, anyway thanks again for the work you've done.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 18:38
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