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Pork eating & christmas

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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pork eating & christmas
    Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 14:30
I realy want to figure this out for once end for all.

Question 1
What did Jesus say about eating pork.

Christians say: Jesus say it was permitted to eat pork conusme allmost everything only in moderation.

But what bugs me is Jesus him self was raised as a Jew(they don't eat pork)

So Jesus would probably nevr have eaten pork himself(he lived in israel right..)

See the weiredness in the link Jews(no pork) Christians(pork) Muslims(no pork)

I think there is something missing.


So my question is Couldn't it have been that The consumption of pork was made acceptable after converting the europeans for whom pork was their man meat source.

It would have been easier to say okay follow our religion and yes you can eat pork


Question nuber 2

Why is it that christmas fals on 25 dec the same day as the pagan gremanic tribes celibrated midwinterfeast with a pine three.

you get the point




so whats the deal?Confused
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 14:50
I don't know about the first part, but the reason christmas is celebrated on dec, 25 is mainly because the priests were trying to get the pagans to accept christian religion. So instead of fighting them, they just adapted certain pagan feast days, as well as traditions. The Pagan Yuletide ran from the 21st to the 24th so it was just easier than getting anyone to accept new dates.   
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 14:52
hmm yes I heard that before yes but as you say instead of fighting them just go with it You could say the same about the first part
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 15:34
I heard some middle eastern Christians don't eat Pork?
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 16:30
I find your pork theory acceptable Xi - it makes sense.

I think 25th was the birthday of Mithra whom the Roman military elites worshipped, the 25th was to win them over perhaps.

As for eating pork, why do Judaism and Islam forbid it?

There are wild pigs in Iran, I wonder if they were consumed pre-Islam - the Tigers used to hunt them.
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 18:06
Originally posted by xi_tujue

hmm yes I heard that before yes but as you say instead of fighting them just go with it You could say the same about the first part
 
By reasoning alone i would say that was a fair deduction. I am sure someone will come up with a more authoritative answer.
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 20:14

Huh, I debated about this in Sunday School. I'd like to add my comment, but I got this forsaken Internal Assessment due tomorrow. My teacher changed the deadline from January 12 to tomorrow today. So... expect feedback on Friday...Dead

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  Quote Eondt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 22:52
The following is from Romans 14. It was written to the Romans by Paul after they were arguing amongst themselves about the same thing:
 
"14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean."
 
and
 
"20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble."
 
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 23:06
xi-tujue

your argument sound logical that they had to allow something not allowed just to get more followers.


Originally posted by xi_tujue

So Jesus would probably nevr have eaten pork himself(he lived in israel right..)


Just a correction, Jesus lived in Palestine, there was no Israel till 1946.

    
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 00:40
Originally posted by malizai_

Originally posted by xi_tujue

hmm yes I heard that before yes but as you say instead of fighting them just go with it You could say the same about the first part
 
By reasoning alone i would say that was a fair deduction. I am sure someone will come up with a more authoritative answer.


now I have readen it agian. yes, you are right sometimes I wright well lets say understandable.(It's more like all the time but I have my momentsLOL)


Originally posted by azimuth

xi-tujue
your argument sound logical that they had to allow something not allowed just to get more followers.

Originally posted by xi_tujue

So Jesus would probably nevr have eaten pork himself(he lived in israel right..)


Just a correction, Jesus lived in Palestine, there was no Israel till 1946.


sorry, But I thought he was from Judea(did Palestine even exist then as a country I mean)





Originally posted by Eondt

The following is from Romans 14. It was written to the Romans by Paul after they were arguing amongst themselves about the same thing:
 
"14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean."
 
and
 
"20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble."




I go to a  Catholic school(well it use to be the only remnants of that era is the discipline compared to other schools.

I have a theacher who gives religion(we debate religious things)(Belgium is quite free and supportive of freedom of religion. Because I go to a catholic school I don't have that choice but the other schools of belgium you can chise between Christian, Catholic, Islam & sometimes even Judaism and we even have Ethics for the athiests)

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my teacher said the same but he also said that he had his doubts.

According to Islam the pig is not one of Gods creations nor is the cat & another animal. Something to do with the Arkh of Noa(I think some of our members are more fit to awnser this than me)



Edited by xi_tujue - 20-Dec-2006 at 00:43
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 00:59
Well Bible says you can eat pork.
And 6th of January is Christmas for Orthodox curch. 25th is not the only xmass :)
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 01:01
Jesus didn't start the church or the traditions within the church, that happened after him. There are other members here that have better knowledge of early christian/church history but ill give it a shot.

As far as i know the church was split originally by two lines. One was under Jesus's brother james  based in Jerusalem and the other under Paul. The James version was much closer to the jewish traditions and aimed at Jews. Pauline Christianity was more or less aimed at gentiles and took in a strong roman-Hellenic influence (and point of view), thus diluting the Jewishness of the religion. Pauline Christianity eventually took over and dominated the religion and is the foundation of the orthodox-catholic church. I would suggest from this part of early Christian history, one can  understand how the differences started to occur.

BTW almost all orthodox (bar the Greek church) celebrate Christmas by the old calender which is the 7th of January.
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 01:20
Originally posted by Leonidas



BTW almost all orthodox (bar the Greek church) celebrate Christmas by the old calender which is the 7th of January.
 
Yes 7th of January. Sorry for mistake Embarrassed
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  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 01:49
The traditional dish of Christmas in Greece in most regions  is actually pork. Smile
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 03:56
According to Islam the pig is not one of Gods creations nor is the cat & another animal. Something to do with the Arkh of Noa(I think some of our members are more fit to awnser this than me)
Err, realy If god not created them, who created? I dont remember any story about pig,dog, cat and Arkh of Noa. I am realy curious about what are you talking.  Everything(good or bad) created by god.
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 05:20
Originally posted by Brainstorm

The traditional dish of Christmas in Greece in most regions  is actually pork. Smile
 
Actually, in the past, the pig was a major part of agricultural economy in Greece (and many other countries, I'm sure). The farmers would have their fields, maybe their cows (to sell their milk), maybe sheep (for milk and meat) but they always kept a pig.
The pig would be raised throughout the year, eating scrap and food leftovers, and the day before Christmas it would be slaughtered in a big celebration (Cheiro-sfagia). The peasants would eat on Christmas, keep the rest of the meat for other occasions (smoked or kept in lard), keep the fat for cooking, blood for sausages etc. They would use this precious protein source (which was basically for free) to eat for the rest of the year (meat was reserved for special occasions).
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  Quote Giannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2006 at 05:35

Pig was always one of the most essential economical goods of Greece, from the ancient times, untill today. Even Ulysses had disguised himself once like a pig-shepherd.

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  Quote The_Jackal_God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2006 at 20:15
acts of the apostles: peter is told while visiting Cornelius that Christians can eat whatever god put on the green earth, so that would include pork.
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  Quote TheMysticNomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2006 at 05:20

As a vegetarian (trying to be a vegan), all this quibbling about what kind of meat to eat looks dumb.  Why not just give up all meat (and any animal products) altogether?  It's all bad for your health, causing cancer and cardiovascular disease.  Ever wonder why the rate of cancer and cardiovascular disease is so high in the U.S. and western Europe?  It's because they eat more meat than anyone else in the world!

BTW, there are those who say Jesus was a vegetarian.  They say that since the fish he created when he created the 'loaves and fishes" were like magical fish, they weren't real fish.


Edited by TheMysticNomad - 22-Dec-2006 at 05:24
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2006 at 07:39
Originally posted by TheMysticNomad

As a vegetarian (trying to be a vegan), all this quibbling about what kind of meat to eat looks dumb.  Why not just give up all meat (and any animal products) altogether?  It's all bad for your health, causing cancer and cardiovascular disease.  Ever wonder why the rate of cancer and cardiovascular disease is so high in the U.S. and western Europe?  It's because they eat more meat than anyone else in the world!

BTW, there are those who say Jesus was a vegetarian.  They say that since the fish he created when he created the 'loaves and fishes" were like magical fish, they weren't real fish.


Mongolians only east meat or what about the yakuts they don't have that problem.

"I didn't rose all the way to the top of the food chain to eat carrots"LOL
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