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What if Sleyman had succeeded in conquering Vienna? - History Forum ~ All Empires - Page 1
 

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What if Sleyman had succeeded in conquering Vienna?
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Posts: 692 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What if Sleyman had succeeded in conquering Vienna?
    Posted: 23-Dec-2004 at 16:11
This is just for fun, but what do you think if Sleyman, the Magnificent (or i-Kanni), reigning sultan in the Ottoman Empire's golden age, had succeeded in his (second) siege at Vienna and had conquered the city from the Habsburgs? Would the Ottomans consolidate a position strong enough to attack the italian peninsula and prevent the russian expansion from the east? And would we all be learning in history classes today not of the "unspeakable turks" or the "Sick man from the Bosphorus" but of true and unbiased ottoman heritage (like we do with the greeks, romans and arabs)?
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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Posts: 1274 		  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2004 at 01:10

Hmmm you had had better to open this topic in "Historical Amusements".

Ife had succeeded this,Ottomans would have captured North Germany,and maybe Rome.
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Posts: 692 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2004 at 07:39

Yes, I should've thought of it sooner, but maybe one of the moderators can relocate this topic.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2004 at 14:33

It wasnt impossible at that times. If Kanuni didnt choose Hurrem as his favourite and didnt kill his son who was a perfect nominee for the sultanate and the empires future, the II. Selim wouldnt be the padishah and our navy wouldnt be partly destroyed after the conquest of Cyprus. So Mustafa ( the first son of Kanuni), the son of Glbahar, would be the padishah and rule the empire with great success. I think he could get Vienna easily after his fathers death. He was a magnificent war leader and political genious ( like his father ) and today we would be seeing in our daily newspapers with turkified arabic alphabet that a western european republic is trying to join the O.U. which has members from europe to central asia...  (For example, France in todays Turkey's position...)

A good dream, certainly not possible today, because of Kanuni's weak character...



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Posts: 103 		  Quote Turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2004 at 08:39
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

It wasnt impossible at that times. If Kanuni didnt choose Hurrem as his favourite and didnt kill his son who was a perfect nominee for the sultanate and the empires future, the II. Selim wouldnt be the padishah and our navy wouldnt be partly destroyed after the conquest of Cyprus. So Mustafa ( the first son of Kanuni), the son of Glbahar, would be the padishah and rule the empire with great success. I think he could get Vienna easily after his fathers death. He was a magnificent war leader and political genious ( like his father ) and today we would be seeing in our daily newspapers with turkified arabic alphabet that a western european republic is trying to join the O.U. which has members from roman empire to central asia...

A good dream, certainly not possible today, because of Kanuni's weak character...

Yup...

I also believe the first time the Turks invaded Vienna they also were forced to leave their heavy artillary behind due to rain and mud?
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Posts: 692 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2004 at 11:58

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

A good dream, certainly not possible today, because of Kanuni's weak character...

Frankly, I always thought that Sleyman, alongside with Mehmet (who conquered Constantinople), was one of the best, if not the best, sultan in Ottoman history.



Edited by Infidel
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2005 at 04:22
Yes, he made the empire get closer to its peak, but his skills about wars and commanding were not enough to resist the lust of one single Tatar women, Hurrem...
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Posts: 0 		  Quote wiseking Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2005 at 14:09
I am intrigued, because i also thought Suleyman was the greatest of the Ottoman Sultans, Oguzoglu please elaborate... because as far as i know all of the Sultans had harems (it was a tradition that went back to the Ummyads and Abbasids) but what of this tatar woman? who was she, what was her name and how did she influence Suleyman?


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I don't think she was of Tatar origin, her real name was Roxanna, so she was apparently not of Turkic origin. someone said she was fromt he same town as Ukrainian artist Ruslana, btu i don't know what tribe Ruslana's from...
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Posts: 1464 		  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2005 at 13:20
I don't know if taking Vienna at that time (1680's) would have made any large difference in the future conquest of Europe or part of it. I mean, the European powers would just have united with the Habsburgs and would the Turks then be able to defeat the entire armies, Europeans could have put out. How could the conquering of one city make such a difference for the entire Europe, a psychological advantage for the Turks maybe, please elaborate?
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Posts: 692 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2005 at 14:58

I think conquering Vienna would've been a major conquest for the Ottomans and a major setback for the Habsburgs. It would've been the taking over of a major West European city by the Turks, a knife in the heart of the Habsburg Empire and menace to Christendom in general. It would've given, I think, a great psychological advantage to the Ottomans, if nothing else.

 



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Posts: 831 		  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2005 at 13:57
Yes, remember that Vienna was the crown city of the Austrian Archduke and also of the Habsburg Empire.
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Posts: 590 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2005 at 15:17

You are forgetting few facts. Habsburgs where not the major European power threatening Ottomans in that period. Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was. It was sitting right on the northern  border of the Ottoman Empire and was able to conduct successful campaigns all by itself. It defeated Ottoman army at Chocim (1673), long time before Vienna battle.

Reason Ottomans moved against Habsburgs is because they considered them an easy pick at that time.

Global situation would not change much. French were Ottoman allies, so were Swedes. I believe that Ottoman empire in that period had achieved far higher degree of civilization and religious tolerance than any European country. Maybe Ottoman rule was not such a bad deal after all.
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Posts: 367 		  Quote TJK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2005 at 13:35

cavalry4ever and Kalevipoeg,

This topic is about siege of Vienna during the reign sultan of Suleyman Kanuni in 1529..
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Posts: 590 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2005 at 18:34
Originally posted by cavalry4ever

Global situation would not change much. French were Ottoman allies, so were Swedes. I believe that Ottoman empire in that period had achieved far higher degree of civilization and religious tolerance than any European country. Maybe Ottoman rule was not such a bad deal after all.


 
I am explaining here why conquering Vienna would not change too much. General implication in this discussion is that fall of Vienna would cause the whole of European civilization to collapse. Lot of countries where Ottoman allies.
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Posts: 5006 		  Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2008 at 19:47
In 1529, the Turks in W Europe during the reformation? Well wow! That would be a great historical deviation point. Maybe it would have arrested the reformation. Maybe it would have fatally weakened Europe, what would Protestants supported by the Turkish armys not just gold as they were historically.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Posts: 3718 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 09:31
Hmm. would ottoman support protestants with army? I do not thing so..
 
I dont think conquering vienna will change anything.Ottomans logistic(and technology) was not enough to hold such a big country.  Ottomans were horse riders not sailors(Even their navy was powerful at specific times, reason is richness of ottomans and fund they wasted for navy.) so they could not support their empire from sea.
 
 
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Posts: 5006 		  Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 10:03

Logistics are a true issue, but the Ottomons had displayed the ability to manage a multi-continent empire. I don't see them stopping in Vienna. They might have made a push to the Rhine.

The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Posts: 3718 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 10:09
I am talking about long term. in short term It would be bad for western europea(specially south part.) but what about polland and russia(at that time, It is powerless.). would ottomans protect newly gained lands? It is difficult. what kanuni did was to trip between iran and europea.
 
how much fund can ottomans spend for vienna and what would be benefit? Ottomans lost more money for holding hungary than It take from hungary. Vienna would be worse.
 
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Posts: 5006 		  Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 10:11
Yes, thats a good point, but then Sulyman historically felt he had christendom on the back foot, he migt have pursued.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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