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Genghis 
Caliph 
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2656 |
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Communist supportersPosted: 06-Dec-2006 at 16:44 |
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True, they are different, but what I said expresses my views on both of them for the most part.
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Zagros
Emperor 
Suspended Joined: 11-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8792 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Dec-2006 at 14:58 |
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Socialism and communism are not the same thing. The UK's NHS is an example of a successful socialist concept and is far from stupid.
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Genghis
Caliph
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2656 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Dec-2006 at 14:18 |
I personally think it's stupid, misguided, and doomed to failure but if I were ever in a position of power, I wouldn't let that influence my decisions. I'd try to be like Kissinger and Nixon, who even though they disliked Communism, were willing to make deals with Chinese Communists for the benefit of their country. Or like Churchill, who despised Communism, but was willing to collaborate with Stalin to defeat Hitler. Edited by Genghis - 06-Dec-2006 at 14:19 |
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Lmprs
Arch Duke 
Joined: 30-Dec-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1869 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Dec-2006 at 11:26 |
No problem then. I thought you were implying that socialism was evil. |
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Genghis
Caliph
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2656 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Dec-2006 at 17:45 |
No, but I try not to analyze things from a moral perspective, it tends to just cloud people's judgement in my opinion.
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Kalevipoeg
Chieftain 
Joined: 06-Aug-2004 Location: Estonia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1458 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Dec-2006 at 15:46 |
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Yea idon't think Stalin would have bothered about his "human material" being wased on nuclear tests too much.
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There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Mosquito
Caliph
Suspended Joined: 05-Aug-2004 Location: Sarmatia Online Status: Offline Posts: 2537 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Dec-2006 at 15:18 |
Nah, Chinese and Russians did it too. If I remember Chinese were testing the killing range of nuclear explosion on their own soldiers killing about 50.000 of them while Russians killed less but also used atomics against its own soldiers and criminals. Edited by Mosquito - 05-Dec-2006 at 16:08 |
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Lmprs
Arch Duke
Joined: 30-Dec-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1869 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Dec-2006 at 14:26 |
Do you consider US evil? |
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Genghis
Caliph
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2656 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Dec-2006 at 09:04 |
Which has to do with our discussion how?
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Lmprs
Arch Duke
Joined: 30-Dec-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1869 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Dec-2006 at 07:55 |
US is the only country which used nuclear weapons against human beings in history. |
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mamikon
Sultan 
Joined: 16-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2200 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Dec-2006 at 11:09 |
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The idea of communism in on itself is not evil; but it was implemented
at the worst possible time and in the most unfit location. Russia was
the least industrialized of the major powers, with a tiny worker's
population mainly concentrated in Petrograd, which incidentally was the
locus of the revolution.
Incidentally, the Russian peasantry was already set up for communism; they already had a village "commune". However, they worked for nobles and wanted LAND not work for some organized state entity. If "Revolution" could have taken place in the most industrialized country, say Germany, there would have been much less bloodshed. It is only sad that the only version of Communism that we know of was that of the Soviets (and its similar off-shoots). I dont think the idea itself is bad....but it would never survive in a capitalist world... |
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Eondt
Earl 
Joined: 23-Aug-2006 Location: South Africa Online Status: Offline Posts: 279 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Dec-2006 at 03:57 |
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Ahhh...now things get interesting. It's important to distinguish between socialism, communism and capitalism. Socialism and capitalism are the two extreme economic models, while communism is a political model. Communism is the political system of a one-party state that adopted pure socialism as an economic model. It is also possible to practice capitalism in a one-party state.
In your example of Canada, its often referred to as being socialist because of the many socialist elements put into place in the economy of the country but the truth is that the country is neither purely socialist nor capitalist but a good mix of the two, governed by a democratic political system. Even the US (seen as being the archetype capitalist model) has socialist structures built into its economy.
Finding the right mix between the two systems is the challenge that any government faces and quite often fails in. This correct mix of the two systems is also often referred to as the government's "Macro-economic policies"
 Theory states that as long as a democratic political system is followed, the people will influence these policies through their vote until such a time as the correct mix is achieved and the majority of people prosper. But that's theory...
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Siege Tower
Colonel 
Joined: 28-Aug-2006 Location: Edmonton,Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 580 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Dec-2006 at 03:51 |
hello Hellios, democratic socialism, Canada? can you explain it, because i don t really understand. |
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Hellios
Arch Duke
Joined: 25-Sep-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1933 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Dec-2006 at 01:20 |
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It's important to make a distinction between an ideology and the way it's practiced. Like religion, politics is also subject to wrongful interpretation.
There's no general rule about which political system is best, because the system of a country is directly influenced by the individual circumstances of that society.
A society suffering from extreme poverty, inequality, rampant exploitation, etc, might try to adopt a system that is designed to focus on those circumstances.
A country enjoying economic prosperity, abundant natural resources, security, etc, might adopt a different system.
The list goes on and on about how & why individual societies use different systems based on their individual circumstances, so there's no universal system that's "best".
My country tries to practice a form of democratic socialism, in contrast with our southern neighbor. People forget about socialism a lot, and some even think it's the same as communism, but that's a normal tendency for a citizen from a system that considers itself superior.
Edited by Hellios - 04-Dec-2006 at 01:26 |
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Genghis
Caliph
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2656 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Dec-2006 at 15:11 |
Neither was Hitler's. I really don't think the dead care about intentions.
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Lmprs
Arch Duke
Joined: 30-Dec-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1869 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Dec-2006 at 13:36 |
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Can somebody define 'evil' please?
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Kalevipoeg
Chieftain
Joined: 06-Aug-2004 Location: Estonia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1458 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Dec-2006 at 12:02 |
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They had the intention of murdering every opponent, real or fictionary, without any courts, that constitutes evil in most categories.
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There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Siege Tower
Colonel
Joined: 28-Aug-2006 Location: Edmonton,Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 580 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Dec-2006 at 10:05 |
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all i am saying is that their intention was not to create a world of evil, hence they shoudn t be listed in the catagory of evil.
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Emperor Barbarossa
Caliph
Joined: 15-Jul-2005 Location: Pittsburgh, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2888 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Dec-2006 at 11:15 |
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Communism is not even a workers' paradise. Sure, capitalism does have a lower class, but in communism, very few people can prosper. Also, the Russian communism under Stalin was very anti-intellectual.
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Kalevipoeg
Chieftain
Joined: 06-Aug-2004 Location: Estonia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1458 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Dec-2006 at 10:59 |
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Lenin had the idea of creating a workers paradise, and Hitler had the idea of creating a German paradise, both killed innocent peoples in millions to achieve it without reason or logic. Lenins workers paradise meant the killing of anyone he had a disliking towards, i don't see any paradise coming from that.
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There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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