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Patrinos
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Topic: Most apealing alphabeth Posted: 07-Dec-2006 at 04:19 |
Originally posted by theMacedonian
Heheheh these also look the same...
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Hehe,what a coincidence!!
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Adalwolf
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Posted: 07-Dec-2006 at 10:06 |
The Futhark Runic aphabet.
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 08-Dec-2006 at 05:59 |
I also find runes pretty in a harsh kind of way. As for the
best-looking alphabeth, it's hard to say. Depends a lot on the
individual who write the letters.
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Cywr
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Posted: 10-Dec-2006 at 04:06 |
I find runes have an almost mystic appeal, but i suspect this is more due to subtle conditioning from newage bollucks. They do look cool though. I have a real softspot for cyrilic though, i'll finaly make hte effort to learn it one day.
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Arrrgh!!"
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perikles
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Posted: 12-Dec-2006 at 23:41 |
Originally posted by theMacedonian
Originally posted by Flipper
The Hellenic alphabet (Attic version)
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| | | | | | | * | | | | | | * | | | | | | | | | | | * | | | | | | * | | | | А В Г Д Е З Н * К Л М О П Р * Т Ф Х Ш И С
Б Ѓ Ж Ѕ Ј Љ Њ Ќ У Ц Ч Џ
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Heheheh these also look the same...
And plus all the slavic speeking languagaes are the same. |
dear Friend from fYROM. Your alphabet and also all the slavic alphabet was a gift from Byzantine empire.I think you remember Kirilos and Methodios.
Your alphabet it ahs no difference from all the slavic ones. At least until the propaganda of Tito starts. And from then you become descedants of Macedons. Don't accuse others for propaganda when you are the meaning of the word.
And i always glad when i see people of other tribes and nations want to become Greeks. If you want for making your life easier i can teach you greek free of charge
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Samos national guard.
260 days left.
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Anton
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Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 17:03 |
Originally posted by perikles
dear Friend from fYROM. Your alphabet and also all the slavic alphabet was a gift from Byzantine empire.I think you remember Kirilos and Methodios.
Your alphabet it ahs no difference from all the slavic ones. At least until the propaganda of Tito starts. And from then you become descedants of Macedons. Don't accuse others for propaganda when you are the meaning of the word.
And i always glad when i see people of other tribes and nations want to become Greeks. If you want for making your life easier i can teach you greek free of charge
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I, personally, don't care about your relations with people from Republic of Macedonia, but when an arrogant Greek starts to speak in such a tone I have intention to answer.
Present opinion is that Kirilos and Methodios created Glagolitic alphabeth whereas Cyrilic alphabeth was created by Preslav Literary school. This means that people who created it were Naum and Konstantine Preslavski. People who (I am sure you, my dear friend Perikles will agree with me) are far from Byzantine Empire. So, I do not see any reason to consider it as a gift from Byzantine Empire (which you obviously equalize to Greece).
Although it is widely accepted that the Glagolitic alphabet was invented by Saints Cyril and Methodius, the origins of the early Cyrillic alphabet are still a source of much controversy. Though it is usually attributed to Saint Clement of Ohrid, disciple of Saint Cyril and Saint Methodius from Bulgarian Macedonia, the alphabet is more likely to have developed at the Preslav Literary School in northeastern Bulgaria, where the oldest Cyrillic inscriptions have been found, dating back to the 940s. The theory is supported by the fact that the Cyrillic alphabet almost completely replaced the Glagolitic in northeastern Bulgaria as early as the end of the tenth century, whereas the Ohrid Literary Schoolwhere Saint Clement workedcontinued to use the Glagolitic until the twelfth century. Of course, as the disciples of St. Cyril and Methodius spread throughout the First Bulgarian Empire, it is likely that these two main scholarly centres were a part of a single tradition.
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Guests
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Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 19:53 |
dear Friend from fYROM. Your alphabet and also all the slavic alphabet was a gift from Byzantine empire.I think you remember Kirilos and Methodios.
Your alphabet it ahs no difference from all the slavic ones. At least until the propaganda of Tito starts. And from then you become descedants of Macedons. Don't accuse others for propaganda when you are the meaning of the word.
And i always glad when i see people of other tribes and nations want to become Greeks. If you want for making your life easier i can teach you greek free of charge
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hahahahahahha
Thats SAINT Kirilus & Methodius!!! Enought with the left-over communist... anyways I know that my alphabeth is simmilar to the other slavic ones, which in fact is not the issue here. The main issue is that it evolved (like all the other languages)... but let me remind you that this alphabeth was created based on the peoples living in the Aegan part of Macedonia(now Greece) and parts of southern Vardar Macedonia (Republic of Macedonia) and southern parts of the Pirin part of Macedonia(today Bulgaria) and therefore its origins are pretty clear. And plus that was the first version the "Glagolica"(which was based on letters containing Greek and Jewish written form, also a few Greek letters) while the modern version (or closer to the modern one) is written by St. Naum of Ohrid which again based his alphabeth on the Macedonian reageon. And certanly I don't know what all the fuss is about, this is turning a Contest of Nationalism not Beauty of the written Sounds. The Macedonian alphabeth of TODAY is different from any other and therefore has its own place in literature. And plus if this alphabeth was based on the Macedonian reageon wouldnt make everyone else users of this alphabeth as Macedonia its home land? Why don't you have a think and then answer this question.
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Dan Carkner
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Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 20:34 |
People angrily complain about something (in this case "FYROM") when they are insecure, it's just stupid.
Anyways I think it was valid to mention Macedonian script. I mentioned Czech "alphabet" which is just latin with a few accents, no one made long angry replies how it was really made up by germans or slovaks or whatever.
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Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 20:47 |
Originally posted by Dan Carkner
People angrily complain about something (in this case "FYROM") when they are insecure, it's just stupid.
Anyways I think it was valid to mention Macedonian script. I mentioned Czech "alphabet" which is just latin with a few accents, no one made long angry replies how it was really made up by germans or slovaks or whatever.
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Dear Friend,
Can't you see that the Macedonian issue is deeper than expected. I certanly am LOST in ways that we Macedonians pose such a great threat to the Balkans. I have no Idea how this came to be (maybe they still remember Aleksandar) but this is... whell upseard.
Don't fill left out my friend. Voultures would always go for Old Meat(this case Macedonia).
Regards.
Write something about that, I wanna hear more.
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NikeBG
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Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 04:51 |
Originally posted by theMacedonian2
...St. Naum of Ohrid... |
Uhm... Who? St. Naum is named Preslavski, while Ohridski is St. Kliment/Clement. Perhaps you meant him? Indeed, the Cyrillic alphabet lies in Naum's original centre in Preslav (IIRC, he was later transferred to Ohrid too, but he remained St. Naum Preslavski, where most of his work had been done). Therefore, it's more than clear that the Cyrillic alphabet was created in Bulgaria (no matter in which of the two literary centres - Preslav or Ohrid, although Preslav is more probable). The only discussion could be whether the Glagolitic alphabet, made by St. Cyril and St. Methodius, was Byzantine, Velikomoravian, Bulgarian or just all-Slavic, as all sources say...
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Patrinos
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Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 04:58 |
Welcome back the"Macedonian"
Firstly I thought that Kyrilos and Methodios were Fyromians so I didn't expect to have any problem with the Kyrilic origins of the alphabet that you use.
Its seems weird to me that these Greek brothers made this alphabet: and the Bulgarian Saint Clement of Ohrid to make this:{а б в г д е ё ж з и й к л м н о п р с т у ф х ц ч ш щ ъ ы ь э ю я
а б в г д е ё ж з и й к л м н о п р с т у ф х ц ч ш щ ъ ы ь э}
which is obviously very simiral to the Greek alphabet. Whoever did it it was a copy of the Byzantine alphabet with some extra signs.
Originally posted by theMacedonian2
Dear Friend,
Can't you see that the Macedonian issue is deeper than expected. I certanly am LOST in ways that we Macedonians pose such a great threat to the Balkans. I have no Idea how this came to be (maybe they still remember Aleksandar) but this is... whell upseard.
Don't fill left out my friend. Voultures would always go for Old Meat(this case Macedonia).
Regards.
Write something about that, I wanna hear more. |
My Vardaski friend,Balkans aren't Central Europe...and propagandist states just bring problems in the region.
Greece has no problem to support you to enter the EU and you in the other hand trying to steal something precious for Greeks,their own history.
The Greek-Bulgarian today relations just show that Greece wants the development of the neighboor.I don't know if some misunderstood the slogan "Macedonia is Greek" but we don't mean that the state of FYROM is Greek...Greece,thank God, doesn't have any imperialistic dreams.
You said that "maybe they still remember Aleksandar"... ...Alexander spread to all the known word the Greek language...what about you...what you gonna spread?
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Anton
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Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 06:31 |
Originally posted by Patrinos
which is obviously very simiral to the Greek alphabet.Whoever did it it was a copy of the Byzantine alphabet with some extra signs.
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More properly, whoever did it, it was copy of Greek alphabeth, which in turn was copy of Phoenician alphabeth with deletion of some not required signs.
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Flipper
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Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 14:59 |
Originally posted by theMacedonian2
Dear Friend,
Can't you see that the Macedonian issue is deeper than expected. I certanly am LOST in ways that we Macedonians pose such a great threat to the Balkans. I have no Idea how this came to be (maybe they still remember Aleksandar) but this is... whell upseard.
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Ok, I did not intend to comment anything, since the last conversation ended in a friendly way, until I saw this. Alexander the Great is totally unrelated to the enumerated issues below: 1) FYROM 2) Greeces issues with FYROM 3) Bulgarias issues with FYROM 4) Albanias issues with FYROM 5) The FYROM goverments current official possition I would also prefer if you refer to the alphabet as slavic macedonian alphabet but that is my position. Now we may continue discussing alphabets.
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Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
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Patrinos
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Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 15:03 |
Originally posted by Anton
More properly, whoever did it, it was copy of Greek alphabeth, which in turn was copy of Phoenician alphabeth with deletion of some not required signs.
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And the Phoenician alphabet is a copy of the original Proto-Sinaitic alphabet which was derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs. sourse
Greeks created their own versions and from these versions derive the Gothic,Glagolitic,Cyrillic,Coptic,Old Italic alphabet,Latin alphabet,Armenian (disputed). sourse
Don't continue it..we will find the deep origins of the alphabet in the paintings of the Neaterdals.
Edited by Patrinos - 14-Dec-2006 at 15:05
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Flipper
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Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 15:04 |
Now when it comes to Cyril and Methodius we can concentrate on them in another thread rather than destroying this one. And ofcourse, there are over 10 countries using that alphabet historically that can provide accurate sources about them.
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Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
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Anton
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Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 16:22 |
Originally posted by Patrinos
And the Phoenician alphabet is a copy of the original Proto-Sinaitic alphabet which was derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs.sourse
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So we see the continuity here from "neandertals" to Phoenician to Greek to Cyrilic. Hence, Greek alphabet is somewhere in between of this chain. Why are you, Patrinos, so proud that Cyrilic is similar to Greek if Greek alphabet is derived from other?
Greeks created their own versions and from these versions derive the Gothic,Glagolitic,Cyrillic,Coptic,Old Italic alphabet,Latin alphabet,Armenian (disputed). sourse
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Are Ulfila, Naum and Konstantin, that derived those alphabeths Greeks
Using your own words and logic: Bulgarians created their own version and from these version derive Modern Bulgarian, Russian, Serbian, Macedonian, Yakutian, Mongolian and many many other
And finally, I do believe that creation of alphabet itself is not that important. Important is what was written using it. And I should mention that Russians, Germans, Englishmen and French use borrowed alphabets much better than Bulgarians and Greeks who are so proud that they created 5 to 30 symbols. I am talking about last 500 years of course.
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akritas
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Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 01:53 |
Originally posted by Anton
Using your own words and logic:Bulgarians created their own version and from these version derive Modern Bulgarian, Russian, Serbian, Macedonian, Yakutian, Mongolian and many many other |
I didnt know that the Altaic family (Mongolian,Yakutian) is connect with the South Slavic (IE) family and the modern languages (Bulgarian,Slavmacedonian) or North Slavic(Serbian).
Do you have any source?
btw, can you name please the two main Bulgarian dialects of the 19th century according your linguistics ?
Edited by akritas - 15-Dec-2006 at 01:56
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NikeBG
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Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 02:33 |
I don't know about the Yakutian, but Mongolia's current alphabet is exactly the Cyrillic alphabet. I guess this is mainly due to the Russian influence or something like that... Btw, Serbian is South-Slavic (together with Bulgarian) and not North-Slavic. Actually, there is no North-Slavic group - only West-Slavic (like Polish, Czech etc.), South-Slavic (Serbian, Bulgarian) and East-Slavic (Russian), like the ancient Slavic groups - respectively Venedi, Slavini and Anti. The two main "groups" of dialects in the 19th century (and today) are the group of the Western Bulgarian dialects (Macedonian, Shop's) and Eastern Bulgarian dialects (from which the current official literary Bulgarian is derived; IIRC, the Macedonians were quite upset when we chose the Eastern group to be official). Of course, there are some other dialects, which I personally would have trouble classifying in one of those two groups, like the Rhodopean dialect f.e. About the closeness of the Cyrillic to the Greek alphabet, unlike the Glagolitic - St. Cyril and St. Methodius wanted to make a new Slavic alphabet and they did exactly that - a really new alphabet. But in time the Cyrillic replaced the Glagolitic, because Cyrillic was much easier to use, especially in Bulgaria, since many Bulgarians already had at least some basic knowledge on Greek. Actually, IIRC, it's written in St. Climent's passional (one of the arguments in support that he made the Cyrillic alphabet) that he improved the alphabet and made new signs, so that it can be easier for his pupils to learn to write it, because the old Glagolitic was very difficult for them. However, it's not stated if Climent just revised the more familiar and easier to use Greek alphabet and thus made the Cyrillic or he revised the old Glagolitic and made a new version of Glagolitic, which is now lost. Btw, one question: Where are the Armenian and/or Georgian alphabet derived from? They look quite different from the Greek alphabet, but I also wouldn't say they're too close to Arabian or Hebrew too... About the original human writing - well, I think it wouldn't be too far if we actually do look at the cave paintings as the first sings of very primitive writing. Because one of the functions of those paintings was to transfer some knowledge through time, which is also one of the functions of the writing, we know as of today. Later these paintings evolved into more abstract figures, which then, in time, evolved into hieroglyphs and letters. Btw, anyone heard of the Karanovo script? I remember that one Bulgarian-American had managed to "decipher" it some time ago, in some Institute of Transcedental Knowledge or something like that!
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akritas
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Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 02:53 |
NikeBg the Russian pressure to the Mongolians reminds me the FYROM case(Yugoslavian pressure) of the 1944 in order to create a new language-new alphabete, independent from the Serbian or Bulgarian influence.
Mongolian and Yacutian belonged in Altaic family , diffrent from the Slavic, and I am sure that there are differences between them.You cant compared them. The usage of a script is differ in usage to a language that has diffrent origin. Am I right ?
We must forget in 1941 the Mongolian government passed a law to abolish the Classical Mongol script, but since 1994 they have been trying to bring it back. Why ?
Edited by akritas - 15-Dec-2006 at 02:55
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Anton
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Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 04:52 |
Originally posted by akritas
I didnt know that the Altaic family (Mongolian,Yakutian) is connect with the South Slavic (IE) family and the modern languages (Bulgarian,Slavmacedonian) or North Slavic(Serbian). Do you have any source?
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Read carefully previous posts before " -ing". The discussion was about alphabeth not languages. Otherwise Yakutian is Altaic-Turkic language, of course. Before 1917 they used Latin alphabeth and after that time they started to use Cyrillic.
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