Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Roman Provinces--Troubled Frontiers

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Poll Question: Which Roman Provinces posed the greatest challege to Rome?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [4.35%]
22 [47.83%]
4 [8.70%]
7 [15.22%]
5 [10.87%]
1 [2.17%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [2.17%]
4 [8.70%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
pytheas View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 14-Dec-2004
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 130
  Quote pytheas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Roman Provinces--Troubled Frontiers
    Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 00:02
Warriors fought fiercely against the Roman war machine all over Europe, Africa, and west Asia.  Which Province was the most difficult to conquer?  Measure you answer by looking at how difficult it was for the Romans to administer and control the province once initial invasion and establishment of administration ocurred.
Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
Back to Top
Cornellia View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 474
  Quote Cornellia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 08:11

I voted for Germania.  Most of the provinces listed gave Rome a good run for her money, granted, but in the end, it was Germania  who was the obdurate resister.  As Derek Williams puts it so well in Romans and Barbarians,

"The conflict would remind the caesars that the easy way to get an empire had been to acquire someone else's; the hard way to chase irreconciliable barbarians through bog and marsh."

A 4th century Roman still thought of them as "Germanos hostes truces et assiduos formidantes" - the Germans, our ferocious and implacable foe. 

Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas
Back to Top
Romano Nero View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 16-Nov-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 132
  Quote Romano Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 08:20
Agreed with Cornellia, Germania was the bane of the Romans for quite some time and caused the downfall of the Empire in the long run.
Back to Top
Infidel View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 19-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 691
  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 12:08
Obviously Germania, and the germanic tribes above the rhine. Those frontiers were always problematic and the first successful raids into roman soil by the barbarians were from there.
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
Back to Top
demon View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Brazil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1185
  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 12:11

Wasn't parthia a threat or am I mistaking empires?

Grrr..
Back to Top
cattus View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1803
  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 14:18
They gave the romans some good fight when they encountered them, but the Parthians were never a threat on Rome itself.
Back to Top
pytheas View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 14-Dec-2004
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 130
  Quote pytheas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 17:24

I'm going to be brave and actually vote for Hispania.  The Celtiberians allied themselves with the Carthaginians and were considered fierce warriors by other groups.  So much so that there were always contingients of them fighting as mercenaries.  Then we fast forward to the Late Republic when Rome decided to take out the threat of a region hostile or at the very least unsupportive of Roman power.  Tribes that really fought tooth and nail included the Lusitanians, with a leader by the name of Viriathus (of the same quality warrior-leader on par with Vercingetorix of Gaul or Arminius of the Germans), who fought from hill-fort to hill-fort in the Guadalquivir Valley, dealing the Romans several devastating defeats.  A city (large hill-fort) named Numantia became the rallying point for the Partisans that included additional tribes like the Arevaci.   Other tribes that fought in Iberia include the Astures, Cantabri, Vettones, and Vaccaei.  I think that reading many different authors on the subject, many describe the campaigning in Iberia as some of the bloodiest and most savage era of Roman expansion. 

I agree that the Germanic groups were the ultimate end of the Empire, but I'm going to stick to Hispania...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
Back to Top
Imperatore Dario I View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 20:08
I'd go with Rome's eastern provinces of Mesopatamia and Armenia, always under threat from either Parthian or Sassanian attack.

Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
Back to Top
J.M.Finegold View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 11-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 457
  Quote J.M.Finegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 00:09
As in the hardest to keep control of I put Brittania - it suffered a large scale rebellion (Boudicca) and several smaller rebellions throughout the years, and it was the constant target of 'barbarian' invasions, especially from the Picts during the early years, and then various German tribes.  It was also a provence that didn't give much in return, except sheep.  The Romans were forced to abandon it for Gaul in the 5th Century C.E. and due to the invasion of Gaul by Atilla in 452 C.E. Aetius even refused to aid it in the light of Germanic invasion. 

However, not the hardest to conquer.  The conquest was rather easy - the keeping of it was the hard part - which I think this poll connotes to.  Germania could never be conquered, however, it never had to be administrated either and although it was the source of hell during the barbarian invasions of ca. 100 B.C.E. and 300 to 500 C.E. it didn't give the Romans the long term uprisings that it suffered in other areas.
Back to Top
pytheas View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 14-Dec-2004
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 130
  Quote pytheas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 11:47

I agree with you Dux, to some degree.  I am actually on the fence as to whether I'd vote for Britiannia or Hispania.  I find alot of the events in both Provinces to be of high interest to me...

Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
Back to Top
Dawn View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3148
  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 12:47

tough choice . I'm torn between Bitania and Germania. reasons to come later

Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 15:43
well, either Rhine or Danube frontier...
Back to Top
pytheas View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 14-Dec-2004
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 130
  Quote pytheas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 02:23
The Rhine-Danube became a very well-defined frontier on which many Roman forts, earthworks, and palissades were constructed to keep the Germanic tribes on their side of the fence, so to speak.  My main question is where else did the Romans feel it was necessary to build not one, but two large, all-encompassing defensive stone walls (Hadrian's and Antonine's), with several setbacks leading to the abondonment of the Antonine Wall due to pressures from the north from the Picts/Caledonians and the west, from the rebellious Welsh tribes.  No where else in the Empire were the Romans forced to continually deal with a Province by impossing a near 100% police state than Britannia.  Britannia was the source of numerous rebellions and ursupations (see Constantine or his father Constan's careers), not to metion other warlords that continued to sap troop strength and economic resources than Britania. 
Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 13:07

but overall britain was a insignificant province after all, losing britain wouldn't have had any major effects for the existence of the Roman empire. closign to the end the romans willignly left brtain alone and simply withdrew, so much for the threat theory.

there was also a Limes frontier in the Numidian/African province, but it was of no major significance because unlike britain africa was vast and dd not offer the possibility to draw a small but effective frontierline like in britain. also, compare the number of legions stationed on the rhien frontier greatly outnumebr those stationed elsewhere.

Back to Top
YusakuJon3 View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2004 at 21:04
The Germans indeed posed quite the problem for Rome, especially during the declining years of the Empire when they could take advantage of the opportunities provided by frequent civil strife.  Roman factions even made use of German mercenaries in their campaigns.  When tribes such as the Franks began to settle in Roman territories, the decline of the Empire was accelerated.  While Roman-style rulers held on to an eastern Empire based at Byzantium, the western portion fell within 150 years to Germanic invaders

Even so, I was wondering about the region of Palestine and Syria, which was by then also facing subsequent inroads by the Sassanid Persians and by Islamic conquerors.  The former were certainly close to realizing an old goal of their founders of reclaiming former Persian territory in Anatolia (modern Turkey), but all territories in the Levant and Egypt fell into the hands of the Arabs.
"There you go again!"

-- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s)
Back to Top
J.M.Finegold View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 11-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 457
  Quote J.M.Finegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2004 at 21:38
Originally posted by Temujin

but overall britain was a insignificant province after all, losing britain wouldn't have had any major effects for the existence of the Roman empire. closign to the end the romans willignly left brtain alone and simply withdrew, so much for the threat theory.



Which is only reinforcing our arguments. As a 'worthless' provence it was considerably harder for the Romans to occupy it with constant rebellion and constant breaches in both the Antonine Wall and Hadrian's Wall by the Picts of the north.  It would also suffer severe Germanic invasions until the Roman withdrawl - and after that it still suffered Germanic invasions.

Brittania offered Rome some four hundred years of rebellion, war, and usurpations.
Back to Top
Dawn View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3148
  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2004 at 11:10
Originally posted by Temujin

but overall britain was a insignificant province after all, losing britain wouldn't have had any major effects for the existence of the Roman empire. closign to the end the romans willignly left brtain alone and simply withdrew, so much for the threat theory.

they didn't have much choice in the matter. Threat or no threat the legions had to go elsewhere.  Any other speculation about if they lost Brittian before the end of the empire and what effect if any it would have had is nothing more than a "What if senereo"

The facts are that the empire expended a great deal of man power and reasorces on capturing,subduing and maintaining control of the Island.

Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2004 at 13:54

Originally posted by Dawn

Threat or no threat the legions had to go elsewhere. 

yes, and that's the proof, if Britain was the most troubled frotneir, why did they had to withdrew troops to another frontier? and later british tribe sonly occupied Bretagne, but never went further, while Britain itself was subject to Belgic, Roman and Germanic invaders.

Back to Top
Dawn View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3148
  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2004 at 15:55
No it was only proof that Britain  was etheir expendable ,no longer worth the trouble or to far away and the later is my thought.
Back to Top
Cornellia View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 474
  Quote Cornellia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2004 at 19:09
I have to agree with Dawn.  Britain had never proven to be a success as far as provinces go - she always cost more money than she brought to the empire.   
Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.113 seconds.