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who are Turks? The current people in Anatolia?

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    Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 10:48
Or, the nomadic people of central asia??? Can anyone tell me what is the ethnical structure of Turks? are they indo european, middle eastern, central asian or what? Do they look like their ancestors??? ( Well, I don't think so...)
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 11:03

 

Central Asian

 

they do look like their ancestors 

 

( check out the singer Ben deniz  she is very Central Asian)

 

 

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 12:14
But shouldnt they look like other central asians (mongols)
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 12:48

 

i think the Mongols had wider eyes than the chines

like Catherine Zeta-Jones in Ocean 12  ( when she was sleeping)

 

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 19:28

Most Turks from Turkiye do look Central Asian.  Alot do look European though, probably because lots of Turks have mixed with  Greeks or Armenians.  I'm a Turk from Turkiye and I look very Central Asian, I have been mistaken for a Uygur and a Kazak many times.

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  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 22:03
Originally posted by Ender

Most Turks from Turkiye do look Central Asian. 

 

Get a clue. Most turks on the coast lines are converted Greeks and now are part of the Turkish mainstream. The Turkish basketball team doenst look central asian? ALL the important political figures have the European Medditteranian look, not the Central Asian look. If i am wrong, which in some cases I could be, all i no is all the turks i have seen do not have a Central Asian look.



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  Quote perdon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 01:21
Originally posted by Ender

"I have been mistaken for a Uygur and a Kazak many times.

What are you talking about ? how can a kazak look like turkish ?weird ! kazak are mor mongolian looking !uyhgur's ancestor is oghus ,(Tiele ) ,the same with nowday turkish ,but later they moved to Xinkiang ,mixed with tochorien (indu european),could be similar ,I put some pics in uyghur image)! Uzbek is part of GOlden horde ,later mixed with persian .Tajik is dirctely decended from persian !

Kyrkiz is the same with Kazak ,at least I cannot tell the difference !

In most of sorces ,the conception of turk is refering to turkish and turkic ,

but now turk is sort of refering to turkish in Turkey !

Turkish is from seljuk turk ,they are from central asia,but that is the thing happened 1 thousand years ago!Imposible for turkish look like central asian ,maybe similiar with tajik ,uyhgur ,uzbek ,.but impossiale with kazka,kirkiz!

Turkish are more like Euoropean !

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 09:39

It is up to your definition to "Turk". Today, it is recognized as the citizens of Turkey, but in general term, it means all the inheritors of Gktrk Khanate which occupied lands between the eastern sea and northern baspian sea...

So it is a very hard thing to define "Turk". Because the Oguz Turks lived in the western terrattorries of the khanate and their western tribes (ok) werent mongolic. They were the builders of Seljuk Empire, Ottoman Empire and Turkey. The Eastern Oguz was "Bozok" and they are todays Turkmenistan's people. Azerbaijan Turks are Oguz mixed with Persians and Caucasians.

Todays "Turks" in Anatolia are mixed with native Anatolians in specific terrattorries. The Eastern Anatolian Turks are mixed with Persians, Armenians, Caucasians and Kurds. The Southeastern are mixed with Persians and Kurds. The Northern Anatolian Turks are mixed with Laz, erkez and Georgians. And the western and southwestern coasts of Turkey were the ancient lands of greeks so they are very mixed with greeks. Also in Istanbul, there lives lots of nations ( Jews, Greeks, Balkanians) from the Ottoman and Bzynthine periods, so they are mixed very much that today a tourist in Istanbul will possibly think that Turks have European ethnic roots!!!!!

But there are lots of non mixed Turks living in all regions of Turkey and they dont look like a European nor a Middle Eastern, nor a Medeterinnean. It is true that they aren't pulled eyed, because their ancestors weren't...

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 09:48
Originally posted by Christscrusader

Originally posted by Ender

Most Turks from Turkiye do look Central Asian. 

 

Get a clue. Most turks on the coast lines are converted Greeks and now are part of the Turkish mainstream. The Turkish basketball team doenst look central asian? ALL the important political figures have the European Medditteranian look, not the Central Asian look. If i am wrong, which in some cases I could be, all i no is all the turks i have seen do not have a Central Asian look.

The main reason that the most political civilians of Turkey dont look like a non European, because these people have more opportunities in Turkish system ( since the Ottoman period !) and Anatolian real Turks were being pressed and used as human sources ( since the later Ottoman periods too!) and BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT NO REAL TURK HAVE RULED TURKS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE OTTOMAN PERIOD...

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  Quote Mustafa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 02:00

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

But there are lots of non mixed Turks living in all regions of Turkey and they dont look like a European nor a Middle Eastern, nor a Medeterinnean. It is true that they aren't pulled eyed, because their ancestors weren't..

I am sorry but this is nonsense. Pretty much all Turks in Turkey are mixed. It is very rare to see anyone that resembles an asian person. The Kazaks and the Kyrgyz, and actually the Mongols, probably look the closest to the original Turks that swarmed out of ancient Mongolia. Just take one look at the ilustrations of the Seljuk leaders and you will see that they all looked fully asian. Look at *any* ancient illustrations of Turkic people, including the illustrations that people in Vienna made when the ottoman army was besieging them....the ottomans are portrayed as asian looking including their eyes and faces! The leaders were mixed, but it seems as if the general population and army was still very asian looking back then.

Turks in Turkey have to stop denying this fact and stop claiming that their ancestors were any different from the Mongols. Turkic ancestors were fully asian, there can be no doubt about it and there was and cannot have been much genetic difference between Turks and Mongols. Why are so many Turks in Turkey so afraid to find out that their ancestors were asian looking just like the mongols? 

There has been a lot of mixing going on in the Turkic world and the Turks in Turkey are probably the most mixed of the whole bunch and the most ignorant, too, when it comes to figuring out what their cultural ancestors looked like (of course there are many exceptions). For some reason most people in Turkey seem to think that their ancestors came to Asia Minor looking exactly like the mixed population of Turkey today....

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  Quote Mustafa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 02:34

Here is a nice looking Kazak girl (from East Turkestan in China) and that's what all of the turkic ancestors looked like before the "great mixing." Beautiful!

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 04:34

she is beautifull i agree

but i've seen some pictures of the turkish in china and they have a wider eyes than this girl

but with the same type of nose.

 

 

 

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  Quote Chono Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 05:33
In ancient chinese documents turkic speakers have frequently been described as caucasian looking. Probably, turkic speaking people have been a mixture all along.
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 17:25

Well...all I know about Turkish girls are that they are generally hot.  And most I've met had no slanted eyes   A bit dark skinned, black haired, and some have blue eyes. 

According to what I've heard, they are supposed to be Altaic, meaning they have the same heritage as Mongols or something like that.

Grrr..
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  Quote Mustafa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 23:48

Chono,

Most of the time they have NOT been described as any special looking people. Just barbarians from the north. If they had been different looking all along they would have been described as such. I am sure there were mixed tribes here and there, but then there were also a lot of mixed mongolian tribes here and there. And yes, those mongolians were also caucasian/asian mixes.

The point is that the original Turks and some still today were 100% asian. Otherwise, genetically it makes no sense:

Altaic Languages:

Mongols: 100% asian looking (today anyway)

Manchu: 100% asian looking

Koreans (which is also counted by some as an altaic language): 100% asian

Turks: ALL mixed people ALL along? I think that's horsecrap. There is plenty of historical proof that Turks were all asian looking at some point in time and that the asian looking Turks today are NOT just that way because they "mixed with Mongols" like some people ignorantly claim.

Mustafa

 

Originally posted by Chono

In ancient chinese documents turkic speakers have frequently been described as caucasian looking. Probably, turkic speaking people have been a mixture all along.

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  Quote Mustafa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 23:50

I don't think you have *any* idea what I am talking about. I am not talking about girls from Turkey but Turkic people in general and their origins. Read the posts above carefully and you might figure it out.

Mustafa

 

Originally posted by demon

Well...all I know about Turkish girls are that they are generally hot.  And most I've met had no slanted eyes   A bit dark skinned, black haired, and some have blue eyes. 

According to what I've heard, they are supposed to be Altaic, meaning they have the same heritage as Mongols or something like that.

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  Quote Turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2004 at 16:05

Lol guys don't try to categorize Turks! We're gonna go in circles! If you want to talk Turkic however I think that is an easier subject to discuss.

Turkish is part of the Altai language family, which also includes Japanese and Mongolian. As for Mongols, they are like cousins...Turks and Mongols developed alongside one another however they were always seperate and distinct people. Mongol conquerors often utilized Turkish fighters, and much of the Mongol conquerors armies consisted mostly of Turks, which is why the Turkish culture and language spread West, and not Mongolian.

Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, and Kyrgyzstan speak dialects of Turkish, which can be learned very easily by one another (just minor differences, but all the sentence structure is the same, very easy to learn by any other Turkic person).

There are autonomous provinces in Russia and China which speak Turkic languages and are Turkic people (Muslims too!). For example, Tatarstan in Russia and Xinjiang in China.

As for Turkey Turks, we are very mixed but in the end we are Turks! We speak Turkish, not Greek or German or Armenian...And we have a very ancient history.. My own family originated from the Caucus (Chechnya, Abkhazia area), but for generations we have spoken Turkish and lived Turkish culture.

As for physical features, today's Turks can be blonde and blue eyed, and I HAVE met Turkey Turks with very heavy Asiatic features, but very very few. Although we do not resemble our ancestors, there is no denying where we are originally from, which is present day Xinjiang.

Turkic people have always looked different from Asians in general, in that even the eastern Turks were classified as Caucasian, or at least described as such by old records. Anyone can have slanted eyes, but its the facial features that people are classified by (like their nose, cheekbones, chin, etc). I know for an absolute fact that no Turkic people are or were Indo-European or Aryan. Turkic is a group of its own!

But remember guys, the way you look or what your ethnic composition is, has no effect on what culture you live, what language you speak, and what religion you believe.

And in short, we may not look like our ancestors, but our ancestor's culture and tongue never left us.



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  Quote Mustafa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2004 at 20:39

Hello "Turk",

See below for comments.

Originally posted by Turk

Turks and Mongols developed alongside one another however they were always seperate and distinct people.

--Always? First of all...since they are from the same region and belong to the same language family, there is a very high probability that they WERE the same people. Every other claim without proof is just speculation and wishful thinking. There were mongolized turks and turkicized mongols...that does not happen so easily with people that don't consider themselves close to being the same people. They might have actually considered themselves different tribes of the same people.

Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, and Kyrgyzstan speak dialects of Turkish, which can be learned very easily by one another (just minor differences, but all the sentence structure is the same, very easy to learn by any other Turkic person).

--They are very similar and it is easier for Turkic people to learn each other's languages, but it is NOT "very easy" to learn Uzbek, for example, for a Turk from Turkey. There are quite a few grammatical differences in addition to many different words. Heck, it's even not all that easy for someone from Istanbul to learn the "real" Turkish that was spoken (and is still spoken) in Anatolia before that so calld "language reform" in Turkey. Istanbul Turkish and the "real" Turkey Turkish even have different grammar and words. Unfortunately, speakers of Anatolian turkish are looked down upon and anyone speaking it feels "uneducated" and tries to learn "standard turkish" to not be belittled. So that language is dying out too with the sanctioning of the government and society in general...sad story... 

There are autonomous provinces in Russia and China which speak Turkic languages and are Turkic people (Muslims too!).

--First of all they are not all muslim. Second, I dare you to go try to understand anything a Yakut person is saying or a Tuva!

As for physical features, today's Turks can be blonde and blue eyed

--Um...that's wishful thinking. When I was a kid in Kayseri (central Anatolia) I had only seen blondes on TV or in Istanbul. And the ones in Istanbul were ALL fake blondes.    It is extremely rare to see real blondes in Turkey and if you do, you can be sure that they are the product of the crusades or the tradition of the ottomans to recruit christian children for the janissary army...now think about that.

 

 there is no denying where we are originally from, which is present day Xinjiang.

--That's wrong. Turks are not from Xinjiang and the people in Xinjiang don't look anything like the "original" Turks. The people in Xinjiang are highly mixed, too. I don't know why people fail to see that the SILK ROAD was going RIGHT THROUGH Turkistan and there were different kinds of people going back and forth to Asia and the middle east. So it's no surprise that all that mixing went on.

The real home of the origina turks seems to have been in present day Mongolia. Check your facts.

Turkic people have always looked different from Asians in general, in that even the eastern Turks were classified as Caucasian

--This is just groundless nationalistic talk. How do you know they "always" looked caucasian? Were you there? Just because there were *some* reports about mixed people (including mixed Mongolians by the way) you are concluding that Turks *always* looked caucasian? That makes absolutely no sense. It's the whole "wishful thinking" syndrome again and some subconscious feeling that caucasian must be somehow superior to asian. Not an uncommon thought among Turks of today and a very unfortunate development actually.

Turkic is a group of its own!

--This is the "turanian supremest" in you speaking. This is total nonsense. Turks were NOT a genetic group of their own. They were just asian like anyone else in Mongolia and that region back then.

I hope this sad trend of denial and ignorance wanes some day.

Mustafa

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  Quote Turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2004 at 21:48

Originally posted by Mustafa

--Always? First of all...since they are from the same region and belong to the same language family, there is a very high probability that they WERE the same people. Every other claim without proof is just speculation and wishful thinking. There were mongolized turks and turkicized mongols...that does not happen so easily with people that don't consider themselves close to being the same people. They might have actually considered themselves different tribes of the same people.

Your point was made after the first sentence (you believe Turks and Mongols were the same people), next time do not proceed saturate your argument with useless statements.

--They are very similar and it is easier for Turkic people to learn each other's languages, but it is NOT "very easy" to learn Uzbek, for example, for a Turk from Turkey. There are quite a few grammatical differences in addition to many different words. Heck, it's even not all that easy for someone from Istanbul to learn the "real" Turkish that was spoken (and is still spoken) in Anatolia before that so calld "language reform" in Turkey. Istanbul Turkish and the "real" Turkey Turkish even have different grammar and words. Unfortunately, speakers of Anatolian turkish are looked down upon and anyone speaking it feels "uneducated" and tries to learn "standard turkish" to not be belittled. So that language is dying out too with the sanctioning of the government and society in general...sad story...

First of all, I will say that I do not like when a Turk cannot speak proper Istanbul Turkish. And different parts of Turkey may have different words but they certainly do not have different sentence structure. That's preposterous.

I have family in Kars so I also know Azeri, but I don't converse with it even with them. "Gidiyrsiz, gelersiz, gidek" etc...What makes you think this accent deserves the label of "real" Turkish as you call it?

--First of all they are not all muslim. Second, I dare you to go try to understand anything a Yakut person is saying or a Tuva!

Tatars and East Turkestanis are Muslim. Why do you make statements on things you nothing about? Are there any Tatar in your family even? Second, I did not mention anything about Yakut or Tuva people, who are Pagans. Third, I did not say all autonomous Turkic provinces throughout the world are Muslim. In fact, the Gaugazia Turkic people of Moldova have long been Christian!

--Um...that's wishful thinking. When I was a kid in Kayseri (central Anatolia) I had only seen blondes on TV or in Istanbul. And the ones in Istanbul were ALL fake blondes.    It is extremely rare to see real blondes in Turkey and if you do, you can be sure that they are the product of the crusades or the tradition of the ottomans to recruit christian children for the janissary army...now think about that.

Blondes in central Anatolia are indeed rare! However it is not uncommon whatsoever in Izmir or even Kars to see it. There are three blondes in my family, and a cousin with black hair and blue eyes. And I don't recall them being stolen from a Christian family. As for my "wishful thinking", I prefer girls with black hair.

--That's wrong. Turks are not from Xinjiang and the people in Xinjiang don't look anything like the "original" Turks. The people in Xinjiang are highly mixed, too. I don't know why people fail to see that the SILK ROAD was going RIGHT THROUGH Turkistan and there were different kinds of people going back and forth to Asia and the middle east. So it's no surprise that all that mixing went on.

The real home of the origina turks seems to have been in present day Mongolia. Check your facts.

Will you stop rambling? You mention absolutely nothing about Mongolia in your argument, yet you end with the statement "the real home of original turks seems to have been in present day Mongolia", then you tell me to check my facts?

--This is just groundless nationalistic talk. How do you know they "always" looked caucasian? Were you there? Just because there were *some* reports about mixed people (including mixed Mongolians by the way) you are concluding that Turks *always* looked caucasian? That makes absolutely no sense. It's the whole "wishful thinking" syndrome again and some subconscious feeling that caucasian must be somehow superior to asian. Not an uncommon thought among Turks of today and a very unfortunate development actually.

I didn't say Turks always looked Caucasian, I said they always looked different. And if you think I'm biased against Asians (which is absolute nonsense), just keep in mind that my family is from the Caucus . Just kidding, but anyhow, there is no traditional culture I admire more than the Chinese and Japanese. And I'm definitely not a nationalist.

--This is the "turanian supremest" in you speaking. This is total nonsense. Turks were NOT a genetic group of their own. They were just asian like anyone else in Mongolia and that region back then.

And this is the "AzN pride" in your speaking. Asia is a big place buddy!!!!!!!!!

I hope this sad trend of denial and ignorance wanes some day.

Mustafa

And thank you for you argument. Or lack thereof.

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  Quote Mustafa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2004 at 22:50

You know, it's really hard to convince someone by using logic, facts and logical reasoning who is set in his ways.  I will give it one more try...

Originally posted by Turk

Originally posted by Mustafa

--Always? First of all...since they are from the same region and belong to the same language family, there is a very high probability that they WERE the same people. Every other claim without proof is just speculation and wishful thinking. There were mongolized turks and turkicized mongols...that does not happen so easily with people that don't consider themselves close to being the same people. They might have actually considered themselves different tribes of the same people.

Your point was made after the first sentence (you believe Turks and Mongols were the same people), next time do not proceed saturate your argument with useless statements.

--I suggest you read my comments above again. It only seems "useless" to you because you have no idea what I am talking about. It is customary in a civilized society to back up arguments with reasoning explaining the same. Maybe you are not used to this kind of thought process...

First of all, I will say that I do not like when a Turk cannot speak proper Istanbul Turkish.

--Again, you conveniently skipped over half of what I said above. Again, I have a feeling you don't understand a thing I am saying. It does not matter if *you* like it or not when a Turk cannot speak "proper Istanbul Turkish." The need for a common language is obvious, but trying to belittle and extirpate everything else but the Istanbul dialect is just ridiculous. Yes, I speak standard Turkish just fine, but I actually PREFER the Turkish once spoken in Kayseri. It actually makes it MUCH easier for me to learn other Turkic languages, believe it or not. Of course people like you call speakers of regional Oguz dialects of Turkish in Turkey either "illeterate" or "peasants" or claim that they "can't even speak Turkish properly" as if Istanbul Turkish has a god-given claim to being "the only Turkish" dialect spoken in Turkey. Common language, yes, but trying to deny that there are other Oguz dialiects spoken in Turkey is just plain ignorant.

 And different parts of Turkey may have different words but they certainly do not have different sentence structure. That's preposterous.

--Oh really? Apperantly you have no clue about Anadolu Turkish to claim that. Or maybe you just think the different grammar is just "wrong" Turkish spoken by "naive" and ignorant peasants who don't even know how to speak "Turkish" properly, right? Let me give you a little lesson in *one* version of Anadolu Turkish (the Kayseri version...but quite common elsewhere too):

"Ben gidiyom" "Sen gidiyong" "o gidiyo" "biz gidiyok" "siz gidiyonguz" "onnar gidiyo(llar)"

Question: "Siz onnarnang gidiyonguzmu?" etc...etc...etc.

Suggestion: "Hading, carsiya gidek!"

Also: There is no such thing as "evet or hayir" to express "yes" and "No" in Anadolu Turkish. We just use the more or less standark Turkic words "He"  and "Yok." I have no idea anyway where "evet" and "hayir" came from...no other Turkic people use those words including (originally) most of Turkey outside Istanbul.

There are many other examples I could give. Are you saying this is just "badly spoken" standard Turkey Turkish? If this is not different grammar from standard Turkey Turkish, then what is it? Oh...I see...it's the language of the "cahil" and uneducated who just don't know any better (the typical comment speakers of this dialect get in Turkey). Funny that I am both educated *and* know better (better than you anyway...haha) and still prefer to speak that language.

I have family in Kars so I also know Azeri,

--Good for you!    Then your horizon is maybe not as narrow as you make it seem...

but I don't converse with it even with them. "Gidiyrsiz, gelersiz, gidek" etc...

--See? There is the belittling again. What's wrong with "Gelersiz, gidek, etc?". Let them speak that language without belittling them in addition to a standard Turkish. By the way, the Azeri dialect of Oghuz Turkish had a HUGE influence on Anadolu Turkish...another reason Istanbul Turkish was chosen as the "standard" in Turkey...according to the motto: "Let's just force a minority dialect on a population whose Turkish is hugely influenced by the Azeri dialect (and other Turkic dialects) and make sure that we belittle them afterwords every time they try to speak their own language."

What makes you think this accent deserves the label of "real" Turkish as you call it?

--So you are calling Azeri an ACCENT? Accent of what? Just to clarify things for you so you are not in the dark for too much longer: Azeri is a Oguz DIALECT!! Not an accent. Just like Istanbul Turkish is an Oguz dialect. Get it?

Why do you make statements on things you nothing about?

--As you have already sufficiently proven, you are the source of knowledge for the turkic world.   Or was that source of misinformation?  I think the latter is a more fitting description. For you own good...go do some real research. Read some books that some people recommended here, read some scholarly articles...educate youself. Education is a good thing.

 

Are there any Tatar in your family even?

--And how does that fact matter? Does having a Tatar in my family automatically make me an authority on Tatars? Which Tatars? If you actually had done some research you would realize that tons of different people (including Mongols) were called "Tatars" at one point or another in history...

 Second, I did not mention anything about Yakut or Tuva people, who are Pagans.

--Pagans, huh? Besides being wrong, this is REALLY a nice thing to say about people huh? I assume you are trying to say the equivalent of "Gavur." According to you everyone but muslims are "gavur", right? Have you ever thought about opening up your mind a little bit?   Again...go do some research to (maybe) figure out what their real religion is.

Third, I did not say all autonomous Turkic provinces throughout the world are Muslim. In fact, the Gaugazia Turkic people of Moldova have long been Christian!

--Since you so conveniently seem to forget what you said, let me remind you. You babbled earlier: "There are autonomous provinces in Russia and China which speak Turkic languages and are Turkic people (Muslims too!)" 

Last time I checked the Yakuts and Tuva were also living in Russia? No? Maybe they now live in South America or Austrlia...it's been a while since I checked. It's really fun pointing out your nonsense by the way....

Blondes in central Anatolia are indeed rare! However it is not uncommon whatsoever in Izmir or even Kars to see it.

--Izmir: blondes are most likely product of the crusades and janissaries. Kars: blondes (and red haired people) are the same or smiliar genotype/phenotype as the people in the Caucasus right across the border who have no Turkic roots.

Having said that...in modern times people move around quite a bit and "spread their seeds" so it's hard to say where these blondes and red haired people originally came from. In any case, the point is that they did NOT originally come from central asia and they were NOT the original turks. Since you always seem to miss the point, I thought I'd remind you of that one more time.

There are three blondes in my family, and a cousin with black hair and blue eyes.

--Good for you!  And how does that prove that the original Turks were blonde and blue eyed? Wait...I got it...YOU and your family are the original Turks!! Wow...were have you guys been so long?  Ok...joking aside...your statement above does not contribute anything to the discussion. My point was that the ORIGINAL turks were not blonde and if they had been you would see a lot more blonde people in ALL of Turkestan, ESPECIALLY in places such as Mongolia, Kirgiztan, Kasachstan etc.  Funny how they all look asian.

And I don't recall them being stolen from a Christian family.

--You would not recall that, unless you are several hundred years old.  

Will you stop rambling? You mention absolutely nothing about Mongolia in your argument, yet you end with the statement "the real home of original turks seems to have been in present day Mongolia", then you tell me to check my facts?

--I realize that you are having great difficulty understanding even a fraction of what I am saying, but please try to at least have the courtesy to address what you call "rambling" instead of trying to brush aside your nonsense statements such as "we are from xinjiang."

I didn't say Turks always looked Caucasian, I said they always looked different.

--Oh really? Let me remind you again (this is getting boringly annoying): You said: "Turkic people have always looked different from Asians in general, in that even the eastern Turks were classified as Caucasian, or at least described as such by old records. "

I even pointed out the relevant part of your (nonsense) sentence above to refresh your seemingly very strained memory.

And I'm definitely not a nationalist.

--If you are not, then why do you speak like every other absolutely clueless Turkish Nationalist I have met, who just know "facts" from hearsay and regurgitate those (nonsense) "facts" ad nauseum without even checking the real facts ONCE?

And this is the "AzN pride" in your speaking. Asia is a big place buddy!!!!!!!!!

--Buddy? We're friends now? That was fast..  I am not biased either way, I just don't like it when pure nonsense is being spread although the actual facts are all out there for everyone to see (and research).

And thank you for you argument. Or lack thereof.

--No problem. Anytime you need some solid, real information...seek me out!  I am always here for my "Turkish Brothers" to clarify their confusion.

Mustafa

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