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kotumeyil
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Topic: Shahname and Schytians Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 07:38 |
Thank you !
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Zagros
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Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 05:44 |
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Hushyar
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Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 00:29 |
name Turk as Tu-cheh appeared for the first time in 6th century in chinese chronicles, is it any evidence that this name was used befor it in the form of Turk?
Bulldog
is your quote originally from ozturkler site?
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Bulldog
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Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 16:31 |
Have you read E. Blochet article named as Le nom des Turks dans lAvesta or J. Marquart's studies? They do link Turkic people's to Tur/Turan, Marquart says that Turan is referred to as being inhabbited by Chinease and Turkic people's who were at war with Iran?
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 16:18 |
Thank you, Zagros. Do you have a link for Avesta in English? I would appreciate that...
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Zagros
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Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 15:42 |
No, but what the Avesta does say is that the Turanians and the Iranians were one people with different religions.speaking the same language - probably proto-Aryan.
The most direct descendants of the Turanians as far as I see are the Nuristanis. They have almost all been coverted to Islam, but their pre Islamic religion fits in with that described by the Avesta.
I am sorry guys but there is no way that the Avesta or Shah nameh Turanians are the ancestors of Turks.
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 07:40 |
Does Avesta also say that Afrasiyab was descendant of Kay Khosrow?
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Bulldog
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Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 07:37 |
Exactly, the Shahname is being used to determine Afrasiyab. The Shahname was a great work but we know it's history is not accurate.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 07:31 |
Yes, Shahnameh was written around year 1000; but Avesta was ancient.
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Bulldog
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Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 07:18 |
Kotumeyil wasn't the Shahnama written during the same period?
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 05:30 |
AFAIK Both in Divan-i Lugat-it Turk (1073-1077) by Mahmud Kashgari and in Kutadgu Bilig (1069-1070) by Yusuf Has Hajib, Alp Er Tunga is identified as Afrasiyab. However, these books are written more than a millenium later than the life of the person in question; therefore I think we cannot definitely say they were the same person.
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Batu
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Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 12:24 |
alp er tunga and efrasiyab are the same person
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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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Zagros
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Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 15:15 |
Yes, let's not get Iranian and Turkic legends and myths mixed up with each other.
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Maziar
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Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 14:36 |
Originally posted by GhengisKhan
Alp Er Tunga was Turk leader of Schytians(Sakas).
Turk tribes in schtians called him Alp Er Tunga .İranic peoples in Empire called him Efrasiap.
Here ı found poem,it wrote by a Turk schaman after Al Er Tonga's death,in schytian language:
Alp Er Tonga ldi-m
İsiz ajun kaldı-mu
dlek in aldı-mu
Emdi yrek yırtılur
Begler atın argurup
Kadgu anı torgurup
Mengzi yz sargarıp
Krkm angar trtlr
Knglm iin rtedi
Btmiş başıg kartadı
Kemiş dk irtedi
Tn kn keip irtelr
dlek atıg kevredi
Yunıg yavuz tovradı
Erdem yeme sevredi
Ajun begi ertilr
Divan'ı Lugat'it Turk-Kaşgarlı Mahmut
This language is old Turkish |
Completly wrong! You have read what Zagros wrot above, did you? Afrasyab (and not Efrasiab) was the Son of Kay Khosrow according to Shahnameh. And there was never an Alp Er Tunga between Scythians, becouse alp Er Tnuga is a mythical Hero of Turks, not a real person. When would you people differ between myth and reality?
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The Hidden Face
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Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 11:53 |
Alper Tunga oldimi Isiz acun kaldimi, hahaha this is the most lovely poem I have ever heard.
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GhengisKhan
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Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 11:24 |
Alp Er Tunga was Turk leader of Schytians(Sakas).
Turk tribes in schtians called him Alp Er Tunga .İranic peoples in Empire called him Efrasiap.
Here ı found poem,it wrote by a Turk schaman after Al Er Tonga's death,in schytian language:
Alp Er Tonga ldi-m
İsiz ajun kaldı-mu
dlek in aldı-mu
Emdi yrek yırtılur
Begler atın argurup
Kadgu anı torgurup
Mengzi yz sargarıp
Krkm angar trtlr
Knglm iin rtedi
Btmiş başıg kartadı
Kemiş dk irtedi
Tn kn keip irtelr
dlek atıg kevredi
Yunıg yavuz tovradı
Erdem yeme sevredi
Ajun begi ertilr
Divan'ı Lugat'it Turk-Kaşgarlı Mahmut
This language is old Turkish
Edited by GhengisKhan - 11-Nov-2006 at 11:30
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Zagros
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Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 11:00 |
You can research this all on google, my friend.
Afrasiyab desended from Kay-Khosrow, the Iranian King.
If he was Alp er Tunga his name would have resembled Alp er Tunga, that is just conjecture.
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Batu
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Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 09:50 |
and who is Afrasiyab? i heard that he represents the Alp Er Tunga in the Scythian Myths
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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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Batu
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 13:35 |
which period?
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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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Zagros
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Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 15:40 |
Turan is not underestimated.
No, Soghdiana and Bactria were the kingdoms of Central Asia, they were both Iranian kingdoms.
The Turkic tribes were not in, or at most prominent, in the region at this period.
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