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Treaty and Civil War Ireland 1922

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Poll Question: Are you pro or anti treaty?
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7 [87.50%]
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QueenCleopatra View Drop Down
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  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Treaty and Civil War Ireland 1922
    Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 07:26
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_Treaty
 
So who's side are you on?
 
Collins believed the Treaty was a stepping stone to the ultimate freedom but was the best they could hope for given the instability of political relations at the time
 
De Valera believed we should fight on for a 32 county completely indepentant Ireland as we have today.
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Paul View Drop Down
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 08:26
It was a foregone conclusion once the first treaty was made, independence would follow. And history has proved this right.
 
 
Obstinance rarely yields dividends in international diplomacy, especially when the other party is more powerful.
 
Also the British public supported Irish indepence which allowed the politicians to give it. Public opinion is fickle, grab what you can when it's in your favour.


Edited by Paul - 03-Nov-2006 at 08:29
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Dampier View Drop Down
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  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 11:24
I'm with Paul.

And of course we'd all gotten over the tricky possible 1914 civil war. Dont want that again and continuing to fight might well have led to the British populaces opinion changing and another possible total war.
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IrishNation1 View Drop Down
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  Quote IrishNation1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2006 at 18:39
Well I have to be on Collins side as well. He id the best he could and dew to the Political stability at the time it was the best we could have gotten. Britain had Promised a ful on war if the Treaty was Rejected. Valera and Brugha argued this was a empty Threat but Collins was not going to risk it. and I respect that. Also as Clep says He described it as the stepping stone to the Ultimite freedom. Not the Ultimite freedom itself. And to break away and cause a Civil war over that Is ridiculous. I can see both sides of the Arguements Myself. But I support the Free Staters. They saved Ireland from a ful on wa with Britain which would have Destroyed us. And they Ended the long Conflcit that has for so long orn the Country Apart. Sadly this all this good had to be countered with a bad and General Michael Collins and Arthur Griffith two of the Free states Most Important Leader (with Collins being head of the Army and Head of the Provisional Government, and  Griffith being the President) both dies within a very short amount of dayd of each other in 1922. So Yes the Free Staters are who I support.
Early this morning I signed my death warrant.
Michael Collins, to friend John O'Kane after signing Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921
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Denis View Drop Down
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  Quote Denis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2007 at 20:57
Considering the alternatives that could have been offered from the negotiations, what Collins, Griffith, Gavan Duffy and co achieved is nothing short of a miracle. They competed with a conservative majority - albeit with a Liberal Prime Minister (And a brilliant one at that) - and with rabid Imperialists like Birkenhead and Churchill at the helm we achieved so much more than we could possibly have expected.

On a different note, has anyone seen 'The Wind that shakes the Barley' ? Great film.
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IrishNation1 View Drop Down
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  Quote IrishNation1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 20:23
Originally posted by Denis

Considering the alternatives that could have been offered from the negotiations, what Collins, Griffith, Gavan Duffy and co achieved is nothing short of a miracle. They competed with a conservative majority - albeit with a Liberal Prime Minister (And a brilliant one at that) - and with rabid Imperialists like Birkenhead and Churchill at the helm we achieved so much more than we could possibly have expected.

On a different note, has anyone seen 'The Wind that shakes the Barley' ? Great film.
 
lol yes I saw it very good film although I felt it was a Irregular film if you catch my meaning lol. It did make the Free staters look very bad in the Civil war Part of the Movie
Early this morning I signed my death warrant.
Michael Collins, to friend John O'Kane after signing Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921
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Caoimhe View Drop Down
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  Quote Caoimhe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 15:56
Originally posted by QueenCleopatra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_Treaty
 
So who's side are you on?
 
Collins believed the Treaty was a stepping stone to the ultimate freedom but was the best they could hope for given the instability of political relations at the time
 
De Valera believed we should fight on for a 32 county completely indepentant Ireland as we have today.


Shocked
I must have missed when we achieved complete independence.Wink

As to the question, I would have been the exact same as Collins believing in pragmatism ahead of dogged Ideology.

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