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Are Christian/Hindu women exploited & sex objects

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Are Christian/Hindu women exploited & sex objects
    Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 03:49
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

 
Ever heard of the Sexual revolution, in the 60ies? Women fought for their rights and got them. Tipu and the man he quotes apparently never bothered to see if relality was the same as theory. In this country, women are equal to man before the law.
 
 
Yes Aelfgifu you are completelly right. Sexual revolution in the 60ies was a tragedy for all countries it touched, women got the same rights as men or they got even more rights than we got. Complete decadence. Our world is going toward its end because emancipation of women must destroy us. My professor of Roman Law was always saying that Rome has fallen because women had too many rights and that today western civilisation is in the same crisis as was falling Rome.


Edited by Mosquito - 01-Nov-2006 at 03:51
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 03:57
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

[quote]
Actually there is no such law. The requirement is to be modest (men and women).
 
Then why this burkha problem keeps ere have been cases where men propping up again & again ?
 

[quote]Why can't a muslim woman not divorce a man by saying Divorce three times, when the men can divorce a woman at his whim & fancy.
 
The men can divorce by just saying divorce 3 times, while women can't. Is it not true ?
 
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  Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 21:29
Actually there is no such law. The requirement is to be modest (men and women). Personally I think wearing a burkha is terribly immodest.
 
Then, why do people have to wear burkas when they go to the mosque?  Is it just a cultural thing?  
 
 
EDIT:
 
muslim women have more rights than hindu or christain women.
 
Are we talking about the actual religion or societal norms? If we're talking about how Muslim women are treated in everyday life, I don't see the above sentence happening where I live. 
 
My Pakistani and Indian Muslim friends in highschool would tell me how lucky I was to have parents and brothers that didn't slap me for talking to the opposite sex or wearing make-up.   I'm being serious. 
 
I did my internship at a women's shelter for South Asian women.  The clients were over-whelming Muslim, meaning that they were either abused by their husbands or their in-laws. 


Edited by RajputGirl - 01-Nov-2006 at 21:33
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 03:10
Then why this burkha problem keeps ere have been cases where men propping up again & again ?

This is not always true, Infact It is generaly women who effect men.  At least It is how I said in Turkey.

Generaly It is girls who use headscarf protested for headscarf ban, not men.

So men is not trying to enslave women. (sometimes it happen.) but women prefer to use these. Of course I am  talking about democratic countries.

 

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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 03:33
Originally posted by Mortaza

Then why this burkha problem keeps ere have been cases where men propping up again & again ?

This is not always true, Infact It is generaly women who effect men.  At least It is how I said in Turkey.

Generaly It is girls who use headscarf protested for headscarf ban, not men.

So men is not trying to enslave women. (sometimes it happen.) but women prefer to use these. Of course I am  talking about democratic countries.

 

 
Which brings us to an important point. Are the muslim women deifferently evolved when it comes to genetics that they have it in their genes to compel their men to let them wear burkhas so that their men are not able to see their body parts with lust, while all the women everywhere else in the owrld have opposite gentically programmed behaviour ?
 
And if the above is true then how does a women recently converted to islam get to like the burkhas suddenly. what triggers this genetic mutation ?
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 03:52
Vivek your aim to attack Islam once again is painfully obvious.
 
Not a single Muslim country is fully Sharia. I repeated many times, but ofcourse the AE members would have nothing to attack if they came out of their ignorance.
 
Muslim women wear hijab, this is not nothing new. Muslim women can work, can divorce and can drive cars. There has been many topics discussing Muslim women this is not one of them, stay on topic!
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 04:18
Sorry friend, I am not anti muslim, but anti Indian traitors, whether Hindu or muslim.
 
My post above was in response to our friend Mortaza's post above that saying :
 

This is not always true, Infact It is generaly women who effect men.  At least It is how I said in Turkey.

Generaly It is girls who use headscarf protested for headscarf ban, not men.

So men is not trying to enslave women. (sometimes it happen.) but women prefer to use these. Of course I am  talking about democratic countries.

What I wish to point out is that the women don't want these burkhas, for in no other place or religions or faith in the world they prefer to wear the Burkhas. So if it is made out that the muslim omen prefer the burkhas themselves, it must definitley be something drastically different from the make up of all other women in the world.

Scarves is another thing, In india they are used by women for protecting the makeup & hair while riding a bike or when they go riding with their boyfriends (near their houses), so that they can be close but not recognised.
But then the principle behind this is totally different.
 
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 04:56
What I wish to point out is that the women don't want these burkhas, for in no other place or religions or faith in the world they prefer to wear the Burkhas. So if it is made out that the muslim omen prefer the burkhas themselves, it must definitley be something drastically different from the make up of all other women in the world.
 
If you tell me which gen force women to show their body, than I will try to find that muslim gen you are talking.  Anway, If noone has right to force you walking naked or half naked, you dont have right to force other.(except security or health issues.)
 
Infact I dont like burka much, but that does not change that they have their rights.
 
So this discussions are generally boring, how can you make someone friendly with restricting their rights, and forcing them to do something.
 
Absurd theories.
 
 
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 05:50
An interesting point which has been raised is that while women in Muslim countries may suffer disadvatages in some areas of society, such as the judiciary and employment, that this may be a result of factors indigenous to the country itself and not to Islamic religion. It is no secret that many countries in the Islamic world, having only gained independence in the mid 20th century, have been slower in taking up many of the social, political and equality based rights adopted by other countries over the same time perio.

So while it may be to the benefit and empowerment of women in these countries that their governments be receptive to outside ideas concerning womens' rights, we must be careful in distinguishing which disadvantages in these countries stem from religion and which are simply the result of age old mysoginy (which all societies at one point or another have engaged in).
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 06:00
No gen forces women to reveal their bodies, they only give them the freedom to be themselves.
 
Unlike the muslim women (turkey is very liberated) in most countries, where they are forced to hide themselves in a burkha, which on the contrary draws attention to them and at best makes them look like vertical black boxes walking without an identitiy of their own.
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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 12:29
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

at best makes them look like vertical black boxes walking without an identitiy of their own.
 
What does it matter as to what your personal opinion is? No one ever claimed the Burkha to be a fashion statement, thus one should give even more respect to the women who choose to do so. Even if you dont agree with it, one must respect that they are sticking to their beliefs without intefering in other people's business. So what gives the right to others to interfer in their business simply becuase one does not approve of their clothing. Is 'society' really that shallow?
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 07:15
Originally posted by Constantine XI

An interesting point which has been raised is that while women in Muslim countries may suffer disadvatages in some areas of society, such as the judiciary and employment, that this may be a result of factors indigenous to the country itself and not to Islamic religion. It is no secret that many countries in the Islamic world, having only gained independence in the mid 20th century, have been slower in taking up many of the social, political and equality based rights adopted by other countries over the same time perio.

So while it may be to the benefit and empowerment of women in these countries that their governments be receptive to outside ideas concerning womens' rights, we must be careful in distinguishing which disadvantages in these countries stem from religion and which are simply the result of age old mysoginy (which all societies at one point or another have engaged in).
 
It is not all that unrelated. You will notice in most places, the rise in burkha use is directly proportional to the rise in Islamic fundamentalism. Iran for example, In our Kashmir, the situation flip flops almost once in every year.


Edited by Vivek Sharma - 03-Nov-2006 at 07:16
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 08:38
@ Vivek

Your description of Indian women life in your first post is ... inaccurate to say the least.

Most of the women who in Asian and South American countries manage to access political power come from powerful families/clan for whom they represent little more than their father/brother/husband political reincarnation.

What does worshipping godess has to do with women's liberty. Athens was named after Athena and was an extremely sexist society. Portugal worships the virgin of Fatima and is not properly a female-power-friendly country.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 02:49
Their are three women head of major national political parties in India today out of which two have come from common mass backgrounds. I could give a long list......but instead what is to be appreciated is that, if the culture does not allow it, it won't happen.
 
The Hindu India is presently ruled by an Italian christian woman (christians = 2 % of the population), through a Sikh Prime Minister (Sikhs = 2 %  again), under a Muslim President (Muslims = 14 % of the population ), who was elected to Power by the fiercely nationalistic BJP (whom tipu & company call terrorists & anti nationals) against stiff opposition from a united conglomerate of all Pro Muslim parties (all parties are dominated by Brahamins & upper castes, whom people like Tipu, telde & company make out to be monsters), who had fielded a dalit candidate (& not a brahamin or upper caste).
 
 
Such plurality is found only in India. 
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 03:08
Their is something in the Indian subcontinental culture which makes it so. Srimavo Bhandarnaike of Sri Lanka was the First elected Woman Head of State in the world, Indira Gandhi was the most powerfull Executive head of State India has ever had, In Bangladesh politics, you have to be with either of the two women to be in Politics, The battle is between which of the two women Hasina & Khalida are going to win, Men are entirely ruled out. Pakistan has unfortunately not got much chance to experiment with democracy, but in the days when the short lived paki democracy was at it's highest ever glory, even Pakistan had a women, Benazir Bhutto as the prime minister. India off course has Sonia Gandhi as the CEO. Nepal & Bhutan are the only countries that remain, but then they are monarchies, not democracies. 
 
 
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 06:38
Well it is precisely what I was saying.

Take Bengladesh: you couldn't dream a more sexist society. I mean the Bengladeshi I know in London are good fellow but all of them want a girl from 'back there' so she would shut up, listen when he's talking, cook dinner and so on (and these guys are PhD students drinking alchool, not fanatic peasants). I mean in this country you have public campaign to ask men not to throw acid on the women they've finally decided not to marry Dead. I mean 'hello welcome in female heaven'.
Do you think Indira Gandhi would have had any chance to be elected if she hadn't been her father's daughter? Do you think Benazir Bhutto would have been elected if she hadn't been  her father's daughter?
I've been in North India once I was shocked because for ten men in the streets you have only one woman! Where do you put them? It reminded me picture of 1900 Southern Italy.
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 06:49
Srimavo Bhandarnaike: was the wife of an assassinated Sri Lanka Prime Minister.
Sheikh Hasina : her father was an assassinated Bengladesh Prime Minister.
Khaleda Zia: widow of assassinated Bengladesh President.
Sonia Gandhi: widow of an assassinated Prime Minister (himself son of an assassinated PM).
Priyanka Gandhi-Vadra  is daughter, granddaughter, and great-granddaughter of PM. Daddy was PM and assassinated.

I do see a 'strong pattern' here as our statistician friends would say...
Not only the 8 women you mentionned were relative of a former head of state but all of these relatives died in office, 7 of them being killed.

I'd say Indian Peninsula is a clanic society where a woman can bebefit from her male relatives prestige and built up her own starting from there. Yet it is no a society where women as such have any weight in politics. All it proves is nepotism. It is a bite as saying: 1600 and 1850 England were heaven for women see there were these two mighty queens.

Also to be fair there are a few exception
  Mamata Banerjee in West Bengal
  Vasundhara Raje in Rajastan (father mother and husband powerful politician, though none was killed), her sister Yashodhara Raje is a proeminant politician as well (as well as her late brother and her nefew).
 
But
  Janaki Ramachandran succeeded her late husband Maruthur Gopala Ramachandran as Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu
  Jayalalithaa Jayaram was also a protege/mistress of Maruthur Gopala Ramachandran and became Chief Minister in the 1990's. (I've just red on wikipedia how loved Maruthur Gopala Ramachandran was and it is not surprising that both his wife and he mistress became CM).
  Rabri Devi was elected several times Bihar CM while her husband Lalu Prasad Yadav was in jail, she is said to be illiterate.

The group of female heiress is called pallu and some argue they emotionally blackmail voters by constently reminding them of their late relative.

Ok to conclude, India doesn't give much room to women in politics, but as it gives more importance to caste and kinship than gender, women may find their way to top political position. The same is not true in Arab countries for example. I'm not sure that if Mr Mubarak or Mr Assad offsprings had been female they could have become the political heir of their fathers.


Edited by Maharbbal - 04-Nov-2006 at 08:03
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  Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 11:13
Take Bengladesh: you couldn't dream a more sexist society.
 
Bangladesh is a pre-dominantly Muslim nation, and the Bangladeshis I know detest being called Indians.  They are their own nation now. 
 
 
Almost all of the Bangladeshis that have migrated to the UK are Muslim. 
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 22:53
And preciesly what is different in the culture between a muslim from Bangladesh and a Hindu from the Indian state of Bengal?

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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 00:53
Well Maharrbal most of what you have said is true.
 
And the only diff in Bangladeshi & bengalis is religion, but that's more than enough. In act it is only an expert bengali who can recognise the difference. Bangladeshis refugees are a big problem for the Indian nation.
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