Are Christian/Hindu women exploited & sex objects

Compare the discrepency in earnings between men and women in the Islamic world, and men and women in the non-Islamic world. That by itself says plenty. While in India it may not be all that different, in Europe it certainly is. Better yet, look at how often women make it into politics or become business executives, that says even more.

Personally, I would have thought by now you would have learnt not to take what Tipu says too seriously. I would dismiss his comment as insular, ignorant tripe which obviously hasn't considered the role the womens' rights movement has had in empowering women in much of the developed world.


Edited by Constantine XI - 31-Oct-2006 at 02:44

More shocking is the fact that he claims to be an Indian but possibly forgets that

Of course, considering dogma is only relevant in one context: where a society applies that dogma in its legal codes. I don't know about India, but in the West (I won't refer to it as the Christian world as such labelling is erroneous considering the dominant ideology in such countries is not religious faith) the law is typically applied without considering religious dogma.

In the Islamic world, this is usually not the case, religious dogma often has a powerful impact on the administration of the legal system.

The real indicators of female empowerment and rights lie in how women are actually protected and how their rights are promoted. Dogma only means something when it is actually applied.

Originally posted by Constantine XI Of course, considering dogma is only relevant in one context: where a society applies that dogma in its legal codes. I don't know about India, but in the West (I won't refer to it as the Christian world as such labelling is erroneous considering the dominant ideology in such countries is not religious faith) the law is typically applied without considering religious dogma. In the Islamic world, this is usually not the case, religious dogma often has a powerful impact on the administration of the legal system. The real indicators of female empowerment and rights lie in how women are actually protected and how their rights are promoted. Dogma only means something when it is actually applied.

Ever heard of the Sexual revolution, in the 60ies? Women fought for their rights and got them. Tipu and the man he quotes apparently never bothered to see if relality was the same as theory. In this country, women are equal to man before the law.

Originally posted by Aelfgifu Ever heard of the Sexual revolution, in the 60ies? Women fought for their rights and got them. Tipu and the man he quotes apparently never bothered to see if relality was the same as theory. In this country, women are equal to man before the law. And women are not all seen as sexual objects. I would say that in a society were women are forced to completely cover themselves because men cannot control themselves if they are not sees woman far more as just sexual objects than in a society where woman can wear what they want and walk about freely without being bothered.   And I would like to add that the majority of western women do not walk the streets in bikinis or skimpy clothing on a daily basis. Saying that all western women wear too revealing clothes is as much a generalisation as saying all muslim women are opressed.

Edited by Sparten - 31-Oct-2006 at 08:00

Sharia is a force which belittles women and subjugates them to men. If I am not mistaken, sharia calls for four male witnesses to be present for a woman to have any valid case in a rape claim. Now if this does not blatantly disadvantage women and encourage their exploitation as sex objects then nothing does.

Under Shari'a - Islamic law - a man can marry up to four wives. He can divorce his wife or wives by saying �I divorce you� three times. For a wife to obtain a divorce is usually very difficult. Muslim apologists claim that Muslim women have the right to divorce and that in Islam the mother is revered and respected. Upon divorce, fathers win custody of boys over the age of six and girls on the onset of puberty. Many women would be reluctant to divorce violent or polygynous husbands for fear of losing their children. Despite the exaltation of motherhood - Mohammed once told a follower that paradise is found at the feet of the mother - children are considered the property of the father with the mother being merely the caretaker. How is it possible for a Muslim man to respect his mother when immutable religious law proclaims women's inferiority and inadequacy? Under the Shari'a, compensation for the murder of a woman is half the amount of that of a man. A woman's testimony in court is worth only half of a man's. Women are entitled to only half the inheritance of males; the reason given for these is that males have families to provide for. In sura 4:34 men are granted superiority and authority over women because they spend their wealth to maintain them, this implies that women are a burden on society and that their work in caring for children, household and livestock is insignificant and trivial.

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/islamrights.htm

Can you tell me if the information here is genuine? If so it is quite shocking.

I have found more information on the economic status of women in Islam. Akbar Ahmed's book Discovering Islam notes that while Shia women often inherit equal shares to men after the death of a relative, Sunni women receive only half of what a man does at best, while in rural areas seldom inherit any substantial. That is a considerable disadvantage for virtually 90% of Muslim women.

Source: Akbar Ahmed, Discovering Islam,  Routledge, London, 2002, p. 59

I have heard that women are also restricted from driving in Saudi Arabia, if true this constitutes a further massive disadvantage to women attempting to find an equal economic footing. Being deprived of the most effective and advantageous form of transport cannot be seen but as a disadvantage.

Developments in Bangladesh, one of the largest Muslim states by population:

[/quote]The socio-economic indicators of female status reveal that women bear a disproportionately high share of the country's underdevelopment compared to men. The literacy rate for women, 15 years and above, is 24.2 per cent compared to 45.5 per cent for men of the same cohort. Their life expectancy is 55.4 years as against 56.4 years for men. The daily per capita calorie intake for women is 1,599 k cal while for men it is considerably higher, 1,927 k cal. The wage rates for women is 58 per cent of men's for the same job, dropping to 43 per cent during the slack season. As much as 43 per cent women and only 8 per cent men earn less than Tk 100 ($2.5) per week.[/quote]

This is just the economic information regarding women and opportunity. The article in full details that the rise of the national Islamist party is responsible, with its implementation of religious based laws, for the marginalisation of women in Bangladesh. Source:

http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/southasia/Tazeen.html

My apologies for the text changes but I had to copy/paste quite a bit.




Edited by Constantine XI - 31-Oct-2006 at 16:06

I provided two other scholarly sources, the Atheist foundation I included with the caveat that the information needs verification. And I only used that for my first quote, the rest came from other sources.

The rest of the evidence makes women's rights look pretty bad. While on the one hand there is clear evidence of inequality before the law, on the other there is clear evidence of disadvantage in the competitive labour force. A women's liberation movement akin to that which occurred in the 60s in some other countries would be to the advantage of women's rights in these countries.

In Islam women are supposed to wear burkhas & cover themselves up, while in other religions they enjoy freedom from this dogma.

In Islam women are supposed to wear burkhas & cover themselves up, while in other religions they enjoy freedom from this dogma

Actually there is no such law. The requirement is to be modest (men and women). Personally I think wearing a burkha is terribly immodest.

Why can't a muslim woman not divorce a man by saying Divorce three times, when the men can divorce a woman at his whim & fancy.

No one can divorce anyone at a whim!