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Iranians root in Central asia
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plovdiv33 View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote plovdiv33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iranians root in Central asia
    Posted: 14-May-2008 at 11:14
You just saw what you wanted to seeCool   if some slavians and truks or .... don't like to hear about Iranic origin of Bulgarians, that doesn't make iranic origin of Bulgarians uncurrect. You could be just one of them , so .....Rolling%20Eyes
Can somebody tell me if these words exist in Turkish language or in other slavian languages exept Bulgarians.
.
Ku(a)shti - Home
Che - that
Auli ( proto-bulgarians) -  yard
Sur ( proto-Bulgarian ) - red
Kur- dickSmile
Kuche - dog
Az - I
Ama - but
makar che -  although, even if
Vezhda - eyebrow
Gru(a)m -thunder
Bumbalo ( proto-Bulgarian) - garbage
Gurgulika ( proto-Bulgarian ) -   some kind of dove
.
THERE ARE ABOUT  2 THOUSAND OF THESE WORDS WHICH WE HAVE IN COMMON JUST WITH PAMIRIANS ,EAST IRANIANS AND DARDIC LANGUAGES .THAT CAN'T BE  A COINCIDENCE  JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY SO .
 
its not just about Dobrev. Today  majority of Bulgarian historians and linguists are agree with Iranic theory of Bulgarians.
BTW who TF are you to make fun of somebody like Dobrev
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 15:12
Isn't 'ama' arabic?
 
Some of those words are in west Iranian languages too and others have different meanings.
 
Che dependent on context is "what" or "that".
 
Kur = kir
 
Kuche = alley
 
Sur = Sorx/Sorkh
 
 


Edited by Zagros - 14-May-2008 at 15:15
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 15:13
Originally posted by Bulldog

Zagros, according to the Peter Dobrev supporters, Dobrev the economist says...
 
The theory goes... Bulgars have absolutely no Turkic connection this is a myth invented by Communists, Anti-Bulgarians and the Russians, the Bulgars are actually from Balkh, yes Balkh in Afganistan and sometime in BC they formed a great Empire, the Kingdom of Balhara. The "Balkharas" became the "Bulghars", Balkhara --->Bulghars and left their homeland in Balkh region to todays Bulgaria. They apparently speak the same langauge as these ancient peoples etc etc
 
There are many users in this section of the forum with a more in-depth knowledge of old Iranic empires, I guess Sharrukin would have heard of such a state?
 
If not this belongs to historical amusement. 
 
People like him must be ignored.  They make myths out of semi-truths.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 16:15
Originally posted by plovdiv33

You just saw what you wanted to seeCool   if some slavians and truks or .... don't like to hear about Iranic origin of Bulgarians, that doesn't make iranic origin of Bulgarians uncurrect. You could be just one of them , so .....Rolling%20Eyes
Can somebody tell me if these words exist in Turkish language or in other slavian languages exept Bulgarians.
.
Ku(a)shti - Home
Che - that
Auli ( proto-bulgarians) -  yard
Sur ( proto-Bulgarian ) - red
Kur- dickSmile
Kuche - dog
Az - I
Ama - but
makar che -  although, even if
Vezhda - eyebrow
Gru(a)m -thunder
Bumbalo ( proto-Bulgarian) - garbage
Gurgulika ( proto-Bulgarian ) -   some kind of dove
.
THERE ARE ABOUT  2 THOUSAND OF THESE WORDS WHICH WE HAVE IN COMMON JUST WITH PAMIRIANS ,EAST IRANIANS AND DARDIC LANGUAGES .THAT CAN'T BE  A COINCIDENCE  JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY SO .
 
its not just about Dobrev. Today  majority of Bulgarian historians and linguists are agree with Iranic theory of Bulgarians.
BTW who TF are you to make fun of somebody like Dobrev
 
So what?
 
Other Slavic languages have some of these words also.  Bulgarians are the descendants of Southern Slavs who were in close interaction with Iranic nomades, and Turkic Buglar nomades also very likely included Iranic tribes (most likely of Sarmatian origin) as well. All these explains the existence of these words in Bulgarian language.
 
For your information there are about 600-700 thousand words in an average language.  2 thousand words can't decisevely prove anything for you.
 
There are also about 7 thousand Turkish words in Burgarian language. Based on your "linguistic evidence" Bulgarians are Turks.
 
And also, I don't really mind if Bulgarians were really Iranics. What I mind is only known historical facts. Big%20smile


Edited by Sarmat12 - 14-May-2008 at 16:16
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Posts: 0 		  Quote plovdiv33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 17:05
You can't get it, do you ? .  Presence of turkish words in Bulgarians langauage  can be explained  , after we know about partially turkification of Bulgarian tribs  first in caucasus and later under Ottmans empire.
But how can u explain  pure pamirian, Dardic and easterns iranic  elements  in proto-Bulgarian and modern bulgarian dialects .
I know that about 2000 words in not much , but it is something after more than two millenium separation from origin tribes.
this Discassion with you is unuseful because you already know that nothing could change your mind . You are here in this forum to say yours ....
 
Ku(a)shti - Home   ( Pushtu)
Che - that    ( Pushtu, Dardic )
Auli ( proto-bulgarians) -  yard   ( Tadjik, pushtu, Pamirian)
Sur ( proto-Bulgarian ) - red     ( Pushtu)
Kur- dickSmile     (farsi-Dari, Tajiki)
Kuche - dog     ( Pamirian)
Az - I                 ( Pushtu )
Ama - but
makar che -  although, even if  (Pamirian, Pushtu, tadjik, Dari)
Vezhda - eyebrow      ( pushtu)
Gru(a)m -thunder     
Bumbalo ( proto-Bulgarian) - garbage    (Pushtu)
Gurgulika ( proto-Bulgarian ) -   some kind of dove   (pushtu )
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Posts: 0 		  Quote plovdiv33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 17:20
Other Slavic languages have some of these words also.
 
tell me which of these words can you find in other slavian languages. and which slavian language do you mean.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 18:26
I'm here to listen and to learn. But your arguments simply are not convincing. I told you already that Proto-Slavs and Iranics interacted even for a longer time than Bulgaria was under the Ottoman rule. Why can't you accept that those words are just Scytho-Sarmatian influences? It's also know that Slavs absorbed a certain number of Skythians and Sarmatians.
 
No, you just like this story about the great kingdom of Bulhara. Why do you need this? Can't Bulgarians be proud of their history withour this mythical kingdom? I believe they can; and they don't need to invent something new and bizarre to be proud of it.
 
About the words:
 
Az- I, ancient Russian
Grom- Thunder, Russian, Polish, etc,
KURva-bitch Russian, Polish etc.
 
Also I can tell you that there is a number of ancient Skythian words that Survived in Russian language only compare to other Slavic languages; yet it's not enough to claim based on this that Russians are Iranics.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote plovdiv33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 21:51
Bulgaria is one of the oldest country in all Europe and the oldest east european country.
we had  the most glories in past  than any othere slavic nation. The name Bulgaria says enough about us.
We had and we have a lot to be proud of . if you think that our claim to be pamirians is because we want to be proud of it, then you are wrong LOLLOLLOL OMG !!  I have never heard such a nonsense.
Pamirians, east Iranians, and Dardic people are the most primitive people of earth LOL what they possibly can give to us LOL. we are Salvian so WTF we are looking for in the mountains of PamirBig%20smile.   But this is not the point.  Its not about to be proud of something, its about to find out who you are. I didn't know that just people who are looking for some pride coming here in this forum Cry .
So tell me something where are you from ? and what are you chasing here in this forum, some pride may be Smile
and good luck. 
 
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 22:11
If you read Dobrev, he repeats everywhere that Hunns and Turks were very primitive and culturally undeveloped, that's why there can't be any connection of them with Bulgars. It's his whole point. He wants to prove that Bulgars were very advanced people by pointing at the culturally very advanced "kingdom of Balkhara." His whole idea is to show that Bulgars couldn't be Turks because the former were inferior.
 
For him "the kingdom of Balkhara" is the source of enormous pride. If you really want to look at the facts objectively, you'll see that there are more facts which indicate that ancient Bulgars were Turkic rather than they were Iranic. But I strongly doubt that you really want objectivity, you just don't want Bulgars to be regarded as Turks because you don't like this for whatever reasons.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote plovdiv33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 22:13
Can't Bulgarians be proud of their history withour this mythical kingdom? I believe they can; and they don't need to invent something new and bizarre to be proud of it.
 
##########
 
 
Bulgaria is one of the oldest country in all Europe and the oldest east european country.
we had  the most glories in past  than any othere slavic nation. The name Bulgaria says enough about us.
We had and we have a lot to be proud of . if you think that our claim to be pamirians is because we want to be proud of it, then you are wrong LOLLOLLOL OMG !!  I have never heard such a nonsense.
Pamirians, east Iranians, and Dardic people are the most primitive people of earth LOL what they possibly can give to us LOL. we are Salvian so WTF we are looking for in the mountains of PamirBig%20smile.   But this is not the point.  Its not about to be proud of something, its about to find out who you are. I didn't know that just people who are looking for some pride coming here in this forum Cry .
 
So tell me something where are you from ? and what are you chasing here in this forum, some pride may be Smile
and good luck
 
PS :   Your so called mythical balhara is actualy bactria called Balhara by some Indian authors.
Historical evidence for bactrians origin of Bulgarians are uncertain but linguisticly its quite possible. I understand your point about Scytho-Sarmatian influences on slavian languages . BUT IN BULGARIANS CASE  ITS MOOR THAN THAT.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote plovdiv33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 22:48
 
would look at it ones again ?Smile
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 22:54
Why isn't it just more natural to assume that Bulgarian ancestors included relatively more Scytho/Sarmatians than other Slavs?
 
Why to say that they came directly from "Balkhara"?  You know, Ossetian language is close to Pamirian languages,yet it doesn't mean that Ossetians came from Pamir. And no Ossetian thinks like this. It just mean that Pamirian and Ossetian languages originate from a common ancestor, an Eastern Iranian language spoken in the region of Central Asia north to the historical Bactria you're talking about.
 
Just think logically, you say there are 2 thousands Iranic words in modern Bulgarian language, yes let's assume it's true. But then there are 7 thousands Turkic words and hundreds of thousands Slavic words. Can we conclude based on this obvious facts that Bugarians are Iranics?
 
I think the answer is NO.  And it just has to do with logic but not with any personal preferences of mine...
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Posts: 0 		  Quote plovdiv33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2008 at 23:53
I have a feeling that u would accept scytho-saramatians theory but not bactrians theory can i ask you why Wink. ??????????  you are even not Bulgarian nor a turk or iranian. what are you chasing WinkWink Why are you trynig so hard Wink
Scytho-sarmatians theory is aleardy fact, But i tell you its moor than that.
Its not about  Dobrev or balhara or bal bla bla LOL.
In bulgaria easterns Iranian theory is already fact . You can't change that from SarmatiaSmile
 
 
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2008 at 00:58
Plovdiv, the Bulgarian language is niether Turkic nor Iranic its Slavic some Turkic and Iranic lexical borrowings don't change this.
 
I don't understand why your comparing modern Bulgarian with old Iranic languages.
 
Also please show me a source regarding the existance of the Bulgarian Kingdom of Balhara.
 
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2008 at 02:56
Originally posted by plovdiv33

I have a feeling that u would accept scytho-saramatians theory but not bactrians theory can i ask you why Wink. ??????????  you are even not Bulgarian nor a turk or iranian. what are you chasing WinkWink Why are you trynig so hard Wink
Scytho-sarmatians theory is aleardy fact, But i tell you its moor than that.
Its not about  Dobrev or balhara or bal bla bla LOL.
In bulgaria easterns Iranian theory is already fact . You can't change that from SarmatiaSmile
 
 
 
I don't want to change it. There are many theories; like that the Egyptians pyramids were built by Martians from Atlantis or that the disc of Festus is the earliest form of Russian language. Humans are free to invent any theories they like; it's their honorable right Big%20smile
 
I just don't believe in Bactrian theory because it doesn't make sense to me as well as to most historians. That's it.
 
But you are free to believe whatever you want. I'm not capable of controlling your mind.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote plovdiv33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2008 at 11:11
U have right to believe in what ever u want . But u are not bulgarian and u don't understand nothing about our language ,cultur and believes . U are not the person who can make a conclusion about our langauge and origin.
 
You are telling me nothing new. I know that now we are slavians after 13 certuries intermixing with slavic people and befor that some bulgarian tribes were turkified somewhere around caspian sea and caucasus and later some of these were back Reiranized after intermixing with scytho-sarmathians. Thats why some authors conect proto-bulgarians with turkic or scytho-sarmathians and that is logical and that can be explained
But the thing that u dont understand or u dont want to understand is the existense of pure  southeast iranian elements in proto-bulgarians language.
I know that southeast and northeast iranian ( scytho-sarmathians) languages have the same root , but still there is some specific pure element which characterized their languages.
Existense of these pure southeast iranian element in proto bulgarian language explaines a lot of your questions.
 
But the problem is that u dont want to hear what i'm trying to say. What u want is to prove me wrong with all sources u get .
what u are trying to say is just bla bla bla . U cant explain to me how is that possible,existense of pure southeast iranian elements in proto-Bulgarian language.
the only thing u are talking about is that balhara thing  and some other staff which is not new for me to hear it .
 
And please drop that balhara thing.  Its Bactria !!! as i already told u historical evidence for bactrian origin of proto-bulgarians are uncertain, but Pamirian origin of proto-bulgarian language is nothing new and that says enough.........
 
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Posts: 1 		  Quote Pomak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2008 at 13:16
I think that the Proto-Bulgarians were a japanese tribe. My proof is........... Krassimir Balakov!!!! Hihihihi.....

Now i am as convincing as Dobrev.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote plovdiv33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2008 at 13:37
your nick name says enough about japanese origin of Bulgarians LOL
am i as convising as you?? Smile Smile
 
na zdrave bratle Cheers
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