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prison bars in 1000 A.D

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Svantoretro View Drop Down
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  Quote Svantoretro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: prison bars in 1000 A.D
    Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 11:06
You people still surprise me with the depth of your historical knowledge. Here's a good one for you...
Were there any prisons using iron bars being used, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, in 1000 A.D.? It is my understanding that in Europe, at least, there was little need for such a restraint, and "prison cells", as we know them today, simply did not exist then. "Stocks", dungeons, maybe?
I know iron was being shaped into weapons well before 1000 A.D., but would good iron have been laboriously shaped into prison bars?    
    

Edited by Svantoretro - 29-Oct-2006 at 11:08
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King John View Drop Down
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 23:33
I have been doing research into modes of punishment in Medieval England. While doing my research I became interested in imprisonment and have been researching this for the past few months (at least). I have come across the use of prisona and gaolam many times in sources like the Curia Regis Roll: 1219-20 and Select Pleas of the Crown vol. I (A.D. 1200-1225). It should be noted however that these source do not specify the materials for the construction of prisonae and gaolae.

In regards to your question how much iron do they have to use? Can it be just three little bars on the window-slit of a solid oak door or does it have to be a full iron door? Clearly there were jails and prisons but they need not be made of iron bars.
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Aelfgifu View Drop Down
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 05:11
I know that in the Early Middle Ages (and in Roman times as well), prisons were indeed not very common. Imprisonement was used on a small scale to keep people while waiting for trial, but imprisonement as punishment did not exist. People were fined and had to pay either the victim or the king, or both, and if they could not, they would get physical punishment, like beatings or mutilations.
 
As for iron bars: I do not think that by 1000 AD iron was so valuable that it could not be used for making bars across a window. Yes iron was a bit more expensive than nowadays, but iron bars do not take an awful lot of craftmanship (like swords), and prisons are a good investment (the inmates often had to pay for their stay there, so a prison would in time pay itself back... and the keeping of the peace is always a kings most important task)

Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 07:04
I don't think the cost of the iron would be an issue. More relevant would be the cost of maintaining the establishment necessary to imprison people plus the cost of removing individuals from the work force in a near-subsistence agricultural economy.
 
Looking through the various sets of edicts promulgated by Anglo-Saxon kings, the punishment for offences is almost entirely based on monetary fines. Apart from that, the major punishments are
a) declaration that the offender be 'outlaw' and killed by anyone with impunity.
b) mutilation
c) execution
 
'Imprisonment' was more confined to high-ranking individuals captured in war, or held as hostages against future good behaviour by their kinsfolk. But I don't think they were usually 'imprisoned' in the modern sense, so much as simply not permitted to leave the king's court.
 
 
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King John View Drop Down
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2007 at 16:33
If you are interested in the evolution of punishment a good book on the topic would be Michel Foucault's Discipline and Punish this book is a look at the evolution of the penitentiary system. Another book that might be of use would be Trevor Dean's Crime in Medieval Europe specifically chapter 6 entitled Punishment. I think that your question should be revised.    Prisons as we know them today serve a different function than they did in the middle ages as some of the previous posters have noted. The modern sense of imprisonment is a product of more recent theory/ideas of punishment. However we still have very similar ways of punishing criminals as were present in the middle ages and earlier. We still use pecuniary punishments which one could argue were just as if not more important than corporial punishment (in the Middle Ages). Imprisonment at least in c.1200 was not just confined to high-ranking individuals but rather anybody. If anything high-ranking individuals were less likely to spend time in "prison" because they would be able to buy their way out by paying a fine. It also should be noted that imprisonments in the later Middle Ages were normally for short periods of time rather than years.
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