What is turkic on these beatiful architecture monuments??
Persians had always the ability to make art.
true............
rthe so called "ethnic turks" weren't that good in architecture and other stuff. thats why the turco-persian empire was established. I would be a turkic empire.
"ahl al-sayf" ("men of the sword") turks and mongols (fighting and politics(in the begining)
"men of the pen" (Arabic: "ahl al-elm" - "men of wisdom")(burocratic stuff and goverment)
What is turkic on these beatiful architecture monuments??
Oh don't biggots make you laugh, especially the ignorant kind. If you don't know anything about the Timurid State I suggest you start learning and stop embarrasing yourself any further.
They are examples of Turkic architecture, just like these.
The Kalan Minare, 50 metre high, Bukhara 12th Century
Oh and here's something that will help with your lack of knowledge about Timurids.
Xi-Tujue your mixing up Timurids with Safavids, Timurids never had such a policy.
We may say, that the peoples of Central Asia started to become sedentary on a great scale with the effors of Timur. This phenommenon continued during the reign of other Timurids. The picture of this period is as follows.
Although the Chaghatai Khans had accepted Islam before,they were not scrit in following its requerements.Thic fact had offened the Ulema,the Shaykhs,and Sayyids,so that when Timur had entered Samarkand as the governor of Transox_ ania,appointed by Tughluq Temur,the people of Samarkand had welcomed him as a hero.(27)
After acquiring full power and the title of Ship-qiran in Balkh, Timur be gan to fulfill the promises that he had made to the Sayyids and Shaykhs. He also diminished the exiting precedence of the Yasa of Chinggis over the religious law or the S haira.(28) For matters concerning of Koranic law,be appointed Cadi's and he established certain regulations to prevent conflicts between the Yasa and the Sharia.
Timur understood the fact that the Turks could only establish a powerful state if they would combine their nomadic traditions and customs with Islamic law and practices and would at least partly abandon nomadic life and settle in fertile lands.Timur.at the beginning of his power said,"If we can make the protection of the people and the winning of their hearts to our side the basis of this state,then we can be sure of the future,".Also throught an envoy he said to Emir Husayn,"Our opposition to each other can lead to the destruction of our country.In your wisdom I ask you to consider this matter. Work for the development of our country and the people.(29) Therefore, he put great importance on the constpuction of settlements, roads, and irrigation works.Construction was one of Timur's main preoccupation. He built a bridge on the Balkh River in order to make it eaiser to go to Kesh.He repaired the city of Kesh and built the Aqsarai Place beautifully. When Toqtamish took Tabtiz and pillaged it and destroyed the Masjid and Madrasa,Timur was worried.After wards,he repaired Tabriz with his yasaq and justice.(30) He continued his constructions in Shiraz by building a Madrasa, Mascit and Hayrat. He also brought water into various parts of the city. In 1396, he built a magnificient mansion for the daughter of Amirzade Amiranshah. (31) After bringing welfare to Transoxania he started to make constructions in a place in Baylakan, in Iran. Thinking of the welfare and happiness of the people who were living there,Timur constructed canals which brought water from the river Aras thus irrigating this area. (32)
Timur not only constructed new canals,but also gave them Turkish names. We see that most of the irrigation canals were named after his Turkish emirs. We know from the works of geographers of the tenth century, such as Istakhri and Muqaddasi and from Yaqut Hamami, who was in Transoxania and Khorezm during the period of the Khorezmshahs, that most cities, towns and villages had Arabic and Iranian names.(33) But later, Nafiz Arbu gave the names two twenty canals constructed by Timur's order, and nine of these canals bear the names of Timur's emirs.
The improvemet of agriculte was one of the main objectives of Timur.For instance,the city of Urgench,the population of which had been mostly put to sword by Chinggis Khan,was ordered by Timur to be repopulated and sowed wiht barley.(34) At his time, Samarkand was a Center of productivity in many lines.Agriculture was encouraged with irrigational development.Sericultere was promoted and the artisans that were brought into the capital included skilled workers from many parts of southwest Asia.(35) In order to encourage agricultere,Timur had imposed a new tax system.The new tax was fixed at a third of the produce on all irrigated land,besides a certain due for useing water from the public reservoirs;but any culvivator who built a thank,planted a grove,or brought new land under cultivation paid no revenue for the first and second years. (36) His strong hand was extended no less over agricultere and industry,than over commerce.The land was fertilized by artificial irrigation .Canals,bridges,orchards and workshops abuonded.He promoted sericultere and transferred to Samarkand the ablest silk-spinners and silk-weavers of Persia and Syria.He commanded that commanded that cotton, hemp,and flax should be planted,and forced the most famous pruducers of cotton textiles to settle in Samarkand.(37) Timur carried on these policies not only in Transoxania and the Westren regions but also in the east.After returning to Samarkand from his campaign to the Golden Horde in 1397,he sent Amirzade Muhammad Sultan to Moghulistan and gave him the order to carry out constructions and agriculture.(38) Later,the sons and the descandants of Timur also encouraged agriculture.For example,Ulugh Beg bestowed grants on people who cultivated land.
(27)"Timurun yaptigi islere toplu bir bakis", Belleten, (1945). pp. 423-467. (28) H.Bayur. Baburname, p.105. (29) Nizameddin Sami. Zafername, Turkish Trans. Necati Lugal.(Ankara,1949),p.44. (30)Ibid., p.117. (31)Ibid., p.203. (32)Ibid., pp.344-346. (33) V.V.Barthold.Turkestan Down to the Mongol Invasion(London:1958).pp.121-123. (34)A General History of the Tartars,p.442. (35) Woodbringe,Hillary and Frank.History of Asia, p.189. (36) C.R.Markhalm.A General Sketch of the History of Persia(London:1874),p.201. (37) M.Prawdin.The Mongol Emprie:Its Rise and Legacy (London:1940),pp.475-476. (38) Nizameddin Sami.Zafername,p.206.
Edited by Bulldog - 29-Oct-2006 at 16:54
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
Wikipedia is a highly unreliable source, there is alot of unmoderated information, it generally takes an article to become a victim of an edit war before Moderaters step in and request hard facts, sources and evidence with an objective perspective.
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
"Built by Shah Rukh, a symmetrical four-iwan plan, with two storeys of rooms inserted between the iwans. The faade has two flanking minarets and a projecting portal, but with less craving for verticality."
Because I'm not a Timuridist can you explain to me the main differences between Timurids' architecture and Persians' one?? Can we find such monuments in the original homeland of the Turks?
are you jealious? Our persian friend call it timurid architect, and greek friend call it persian architect. It is known, Turkic architect were largely and largely effected by persians.
So until doom day, will we call every thing turks build as persian architect?
If you are sorry for persians, Noneed.
Turks who have some idea about persians, respected persian culture much more than you. That is why we are effected persian culture more.
So I wasn't that wrong that I saw them as Persian architecture,they are heavily effected by the known Persian architecture. The fact that I don't think that there are such monuments in Turkic homeland pushed me to that opinion...
Am I jealous??? Shall I answer???
Turks who have some idea about persians, respected persian culture much more than you. That is why we are effected persian culture more
So did you respect us when you built the Blue Mosque( Sultan Ahmed Jaami) effected by Hagia Sophia?
So I wasn't that wrong that I saw them as Persian architecture,they are heavily effected by the known Persian architecture. The fact that I don't think that there are such monuments in Turkic homeland pushed me to that opinion...
where is turkish homeland? Mongolia?There are not Turks at mongolia.If you are talking about central asia, you can find such buildings at there.
Am I jealous??? Shall I answer???
Infact no needed, I can guess what will you said. but why not? you can answer.
So did you respect us when you built the Blue Mosque( Sultan Ahmed Jaami) effected by Hagia Sophia?
Most probably, If ottomans were not respected for hagia sophia, they wont use tecnics they learnt from it.
But I think persian effect and greek effect is totally different. There were not religion barrier between turks and persians, and when Turks and greeks met, Turks were already heavly effected from persians.
So I am sorry because we did not show our respect much.
where is turkish homeland? Mongolia?There are not Turks at mongolia.If you are talking about central asia, you can find such buildings at there.
Not Mongolia but somewhere near,chinese Turkistan,Altaic mountains or what ever but I want to see some of those monuments in the Turksh homeland wherever you think it is.
Infact no needed, I can guess what will you said. but why not? you can answer
You don't need my links to see Greek art,architecture etc. Just make a trip to coastal and not only Turkey,visit the website of the Turkish ministry of Culture or see the promotion-turist-videos which played in the Turkish-Eurovision song contest......
Your respect to us can be seen also in devsirme,haraci etc Thanks and don't be sorry
Not Mongolia but somewhere near,chinese Turkistan,Altaic mountains or what ever but I want to see some of those monuments in the Turksh homeland wherever you think it is.
Central asia? If you search enough you will see some pictures like these.. Infact one of these pictures is from central asia.
Dont you think waiting architectural wonders from nomads are a little unfair, after all they didnot even built homes.
You don't need my links to see Greek art,architecture etc. Just make a trip to coastal and not only Turkey,visit the website of the Turkish ministry of Culture or see the promotion-turist-videos which played in the Turkish-Eurovision song contest......
Yeah, yeah. Just I guessed, except Turkish-eurovision song..By the way, I think It does not deserve any winning.. Damned diosparas.
Your respect to us can be seen also in devsirme,haraci etc Thanks and don't be sorry
an empire need soldier and money, dont take it so much personal.
By the way, a simple peasent from athen and an architect from istanbul(consantinapolis) have no common thing..
I hope you dont think, you are one of best architect, artists, warrior, because you talk greek langauge.
By the way, maybe we should show respect you like you showed at troy?
No they are not examples of Persian architcture, they are examples of Timurid architecture get it.
The Timurid school of architecture influenced Ottoman, Safavi and Mughal architecture as they flourished before all three.
Timurid continued the style of the Seljuk's and developed it further, introducing totally original ideas and designs to create Timurid architectural style.
There are Turkic, Persian, Indian, Chinease elements in Timurid architecture.
What did the Seljuks introduce?
Introducing the new concept of the four Iwan Mosque
Covering Courtyards to deal with climatic change
Expanding the use of Medresse's-Mektep's and introducing free state education system.
Expanding and elborating Mausoleum/Turbe-Kumbet architecture
Advancing the use of the Conical dome
Introducing CaravanSarays(Khans)
Introducing "Baroque" art, which spread to Europe in the 16th Century
Triangular domes known as "Turkish Triangles"
Trbes are the translation in stone of the former shamanistic tent tombs of the Turkomans.
The origin and symbolism of the highly complex set of decorative elements of the Seljuk Anatolian era undoubtedly comes from the many religious traditions of the Turks prior to their conversion to Islam. These include:
Totemism: this religion, predominant among the Turkic tribes before their conversion to Islam, is characterized by a belief in a kinship between an individual and a chosen "totem", which could be either animal, plant or another object. This object became the symbol of the person or his family. Common totems chosen were wolves, snakes, horses, fish, birds (notably hawks and eagles), lions and trees. This tradition is still subconsciously a part of Turkish life today (sacredness of the wolf, horse and lion, traditions of hanging ribbons in trees, the wearing of the blue bead, etc). The animals, especially the lion, seen in stone carvings and on textiles, stem from this tradition of an animal-centered culture. Animals, especially horses, played a large part in the life of the early Seljuks.
Lions
Snakes
Quadrupeds
Birds
Wolfs
Horses
Shamanism is a form of religion characterized by the belief that the unseen world of gods, supernatural forces, ancestral spririts and demons is made manifest on earth through shamans, or priest-doctors, who use magic to communicate with them. The shamans wore horsetails during their ceremonies, and this tradition was maintained by the Janissary leaders. The double-headed eagle, which was used as a symbol of the Seljuk state (particularly by Alaeddin Keykubad) is believed to originate with shamanistic Turkoman beliefs. It is derived from a part eagle-part owl figure, and was replicated by many dynasties throughout the 10-15th centuries. This extremely popular dynastic symbol passed on to Byzantium, Sicily, and various European states (Austro-Hungarian and Russian Empires). Another shamanistic device, the shining sun face, was taken by Giyaseddin Keyhusrev II as his dynastic symbol.
Işak Baba, the shaman priest who led a serious civil revolt during the reign of Giyaseddin Keyhsrev II, showed the hold the beliefs of this religion still maintained over the population. The tree of life motif (seen on the ifte Medrese in Erzurum, the Dner Kumbet in Kayseri and on Seljuk fabrics) has its origins in shamanism, as well as stars and other astrological elements often seen in han portals.
In addition, the Seljuks incorporated many design elements from the cultures encountered along their way:
from the Christianity of the Byzantines and Armenians: angels, reuse building stones and capitals
the Chinese: the dragons seen at Karatay, Susuz, Sultan Han Kayseri
Egyptian art: sphinxes
Greek art: centaurs, minautaurs and geometrical elements
The Indian subcontinent: the swastika (Susuz, Ağzıkara, Pazar, Sultan Han Kayseri ) and the surprising elephants seen at Karatay Han frieze and on the famous stone carving now housed in the Ince Minare Museum in Konya.
It is clear that there was Turkic, Iranic and other influences.
However, all these were incorporated and on top of this totally new and original styles and methods were developed thus creating "Seljuk Architecture".
Timurids, built upon this.
They took the Seljuk elements and top of this created totally new and original styles and architecutural complexes.
For example, the extensive use of Jade and precious stones was a Timurid show of power and wealth.
Timurids style was very influential, highly stylised and beautiful.
Timurids were instrumental in creating a sedentry and semi-sedentry Turkic presence in Central Asia, they tried to encourage this by incorporating Turkic and pre-Islamic Turkic designs and culture into their acrhitecture and arts.
Hence, the many Mausoleum/Turbe's to the great's of the past, Shamanistic elements in the buildings, Tent designs can also be seen incorporated into Timurid design.
A great example is the importance given to Ahmed Yasavi, a Turkic Muslim Sufi Phillosopher who founded an Islamic school of though and played an important role in the Turkic conversion to Islam.
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