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Iran=Aryan=Nazi?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iran=Aryan=Nazi?
    Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 23:51
Considering  the Iranian's comments on  Israel, is there a connection between their name: Iran, and  Aryan?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 01:52
Iran manes land of Aryan I beleive. And the name has always been Iran AFAIK.
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Posts: 1775 		  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 02:35
In principle at least it would be true.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 07:27
What's misleading is to equate 'Aryan' with 'Nazi'. The Nazi concept of 'Aryan' has nothing to do with the actual Aryans.
 
Iran of course is not the only Aryan country, just the only one to use the name.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 12:25
Originally posted by gcle2003

Iran of course is not the only Aryan country, just the only one to use the name.


Which are the other Aryan countries gcle2003.
    
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 12:43
Originally posted by LAGoff

Considering  the Iranian's comments on  Israel, is there a connection between their name: Iran, and  Aryan?
 
Aryanem was also the name of the country when Cyrus freed the Jews, Iran was the name of the country when the Jews aided the Sassanid invasion of Palestine. 
 
Aryan does not mean hater of Jews.  And indeed, "the Iranian" has nothing against Jews, he has stated that "Palestine" should be a place where Jews, Christians and Muslims should be able to live in peace. The paralells drawn between the regime in Iran, backward and oppressive as it be (to all of its citizens), are fallacious and malicious.
 
Anyone who beleives that Ahmadinezhad stated that Israel must be "wiped" of the map is an unwitting propaganda victim, unfortunately:
 
Again it is four short words, though the distortion is worse than in the Khrushchev case. The remarks are not out of context. They are wrong, pure and simple. Ahmadinejad never said them. Farsi speakers have pointed out that he was mistranslated. The Iranian president was quoting an ancient statement by Iran's first Islamist leader, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, that "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" just as the Shah's regime in Iran had vanished.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Zagros - 27-Oct-2006 at 12:59
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 14:44
Originally posted by Zagros

 
Anyone who beleives that Ahmadinezhad stated that Israel must be "wiped" of the map is an unwitting propaganda victim, unfortunately:
 
[ 
 
 
Could anyone translate what these unwitting  propaganda victims have written on their posters?
 
 
I think it's Malaysian or Indonesian and says something about Israel and maps.
But I could have misunderstood that, as much as these poor people might have misunderstod the good President's remarks.
 
 
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Posts: 580 		  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 16:26
They are Anti-zionist, not Jewish, so they shouldn't be considered as Nazi


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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 16:30
The difference between Nazi Aryan and the real Aryans (Iranis) is that the Nazis were using the term Nordic Aryan for themselves.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 21:38
Originally posted by Komnenos

Originally posted by Zagros

 
Anyone who beleives that Ahmadinezhad stated that Israel must be "wiped" of the map is an unwitting propaganda victim, unfortunately:
 
[ 
 
 
Could anyone translate what these unwitting  propaganda victims have written on their posters?
 
 
I think it's Malaysian or Indonesian and says something about Israel and maps.
But I could have misunderstood that, as much as these poor people might have misunderstod the good President's remarks.
 
 
 
It's not Persian, and that is the language that Ahamdinezhad spoke... He does not even utter the word Israel.. at all... ever, he has decried, on more than one occassion teh propaganda directed against him - but you never hear of that do you?  These people may agree with the misquoted statement in their misguided hate, and ignorance of what he actually said, but all that means is that they too are neo-con propaganda victims... 
 
I have no love for Ahamdinezhad nor the regime that he represents, but what I absolutely abhor, however, is the perpetuation of a malicious fallacy directed against the nation of Iran by the imperialist, mass murderers that are the neo-con-pro-zionist war mongers that constitute the ruling elite of the United States and Israel.
 
They pushed for WAR (where millions of people are either killed or left destitute) against Iraq based on a shameless LIE and they are attempting the same on Iran, drawing on the same , OLD and tired analogies to NAZISM; the biggest blessing EVER to befall Zionism.
 
 


Edited by Zagros - 27-Oct-2006 at 21:40
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Posts: 2630 		  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 22:09
I do not understand how "Nazism" can be a blessing to "Zionism." The Nazis massacred millions of innocent people who had nothing to do with Zionism. Do you mean those people deserved to die just because of guilt by association?
 
I find this statement utterly unacceptable.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 01:56
 There was a country called Persia not so long ago.  When did it stop being called Persia and start calling itself Iran; and I assume that if it occured around the 1930's(i.e., the time of fascism) then those who changed the name might have done it as a homage to you know who?  Sounds logical, doesn't it?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 02:40

Its always been Iran. In Cyrus the Great time all the way to the Ayatollahs. It was never persia.
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 04:13
Originally posted by Zagros

 
It's not Persian, and that is the language that Ahamdinezhad spoke... He does not even utter the word Israel.. at all... ever, he has decried, on more than one occassion teh propaganda directed against him - but you never hear of that do you?  These people may agree with the misquoted statement in their misguided hate, and ignorance of what he actually said, but all that means is that they too are neo-con propaganda victims... 
 
I have no love for Ahamdinezhad nor the regime that he represents, but what I absolutely abhor, however, is the perpetuation of a malicious fallacy directed against the nation of Iran by the imperialist, mass murderers that are the neo-con-pro-zionist war mongers that constitute the ruling elite of the United States and Israel.
 
They pushed for WAR (where millions of people are either killed or left destitute) against Iraq based on a shameless LIE and they are attempting the same on Iran, drawing on the same , OLD and tired analogies to NAZISM; the biggest blessing EVER to befall Zionism.
 
 
 
Initially, I was going to comment on the matter itself, on the semantics of Ahamdinezhad's famous statement and all that, but then I read the last line, and there's nothing to say anymore really...
Of all the comments on the Palestine conflict posted here on AE, this must be the most obscene, and, as fyingzone already said, is simply a shameless insult to all those who died as victims of Nazi-Germany , and to all those who fought against it.
Zionism is a political idea, but  as such it is being held by real people, and to state that people who lost more than six Million of their own and witnessed the slaughter of many more Millions of other nations, might regard or experience the cause of such crimes as a "blessing", is, well, obscene.
From here to the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is only a very small step.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 06:11

When everybody is done with the pious chest thumping about the evils of Nazisim, we can at least discuss zagros statment in a detached unemotional manner, as the mature adults we are supposed to be. I don't necessarily agree with him, but he has got a point, certainly without Nazism, it is very difficult to see a state fo Israel, which was zionism's true aim. So you can say that Nazism was perhaps a help for Zionism (certainly not an apprceiated one I imagine) in achieving its aims.

 
Then again without the effects of the Second world war, lots of countries would not be on the map today, Pakistan for instance.
 
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 06:51
Originally posted by Sparten

When everybody is done with the pious chest thumping about the evils of Nazisim, we can at least discuss zagros statment in a detached unemotional manner, as the mature adults we are supposed to be. I don't necessarily agree with him, but he has got a point, certainly without Nazism, it is very difficult to see a state fo Israel, which was zionism's true aim. So you can say that Nazism was perhaps a help for Zionism (certainly not an apprceiated one I imagine) in achieving its aims.

 
Then again without the effects of the Second world war, lots of countries would not be on the map today, Pakistan for instance.
 
 
 
As the Shoa was only the latest episode in the century long persecution  that necessitated the creation of a safe haven for the Jewish people, can we then argue that all Anti-Semtism was a "blessing" for the Jews ? The instances of pogroms in the Middle Ages for example, might not be the "biggest", but only a 'smaller" blessing?
Was thus the whole history of Anti-Semitism somewhat of a "blessing" for the Jewish people? History's compensation for their dispersion into diaspora or even a cunning plan to move them all back to Palestine?
The whole argument is as absurd as it is obscene.
 
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 07:51
Originally posted by flyingzone

I do not understand how "Nazism" can be a blessing to "Zionism." The Nazis massacred millions of innocent people who had nothing to do with Zionism. Do you mean those people deserved to die just because of guilt by association?
 
I find this statement utterly unacceptable.
 
No. I meant no such thing.   I don't even know how you can even deduce that I mean they deserved to die from what I said.  Zionism equates to Nazism, Zionism is a racist and ruthless ideology, just like Nazism. WHAT I actually said "means to say" that Zionists exploit Nazism.  To say that they don't is delusion.** That is what I meant to say, please don't put words into my mouth.
 
The people of the Middle East have nothing to with Zionism, Nazism or any other fascist European ideology, why don't you shed a tear for the millions of them that have been murdered over the last 50 years by Western meddling?  Yes, their lives are not worth a pittance in the racist eyes of the media to which the West subscribes, so I am not surprised.
 
I mean to say that the Zionists/Neo-Cons exploit Nazism and that it is the biggest blessing for them today in pursuing their agenda.  Do you still mean to say that, mine, is an unacceptable view? Now I have elaborated.
 
**Why do they flash pictures of Hitler at AIPAC meetings, then switch to Ahmadinezhad, then demand that Iran be invaded/attacked?  makes me sick.  They obviously don't give a damn about those murdered by the Nazis, otherwise they wouldn't exploit their plight and persecution in such a vial manner.  Your grievances are misguided and should be redirected, if you dare, at AIPAC. 
 
I hope everything's cleared up for you now.
 
 
 


Edited by Zagros - 28-Oct-2006 at 08:08
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 08:16
From here to the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is only a very small step.
 
Sorry, but that is what is obscene and unacceptable.
 
Why is some ignorant coming here and calling Iranians Nazis and Jew haters?  Because that is what the Zionists propagate through their various channels of hate and deception.
 
I really enjoyed reading the AIPAC organs' reactions to this:  http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6839&KW=tehran
 
The Israeli president even lambasted Iranian Jews at a conference in LA a year or two ago for not supporitng Israel enough.


Edited by Zagros - 28-Oct-2006 at 08:18
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 08:43
Originally posted by Xolotl

Originally posted by gcle2003

Iran of course is not the only Aryan country, just the only one to use the name.


Which are the other Aryan countries gcle2003.
    
 
Anywhere where the native languages are Indo-European. Aryan is a linguistic grouping. It may or may not also be a racial one.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 09:43
Originally posted by Komnenos

Originally posted by Sparten

When everybody is done with the pious chest thumping about the evils of Nazisim, we can at least discuss zagros statment in a detached unemotional manner, as the mature adults we are supposed to be. I don't necessarily agree with him, but he has got a point, certainly without Nazism, it is very difficult to see a state fo Israel, which was zionism's true aim. So you can say that Nazism was perhaps a help for Zionism (certainly not an apprceiated one I imagine) in achieving its aims.

 
Then again without the effects of the Second world war, lots of countries would not be on the map today, Pakistan for instance.
 
 
 
As the Shoa was only the latest episode in the century long persecution  that necessitated the creation of a safe haven for the Jewish people, can we then argue that all Anti-Semtism was a "blessing" for the Jews ? The instances of pogroms in the Middle Ages for example, might not be the "biggest", but only a 'smaller" blessing?
Was thus the whole history of Anti-Semitism somewhat of a "blessing" for the Jewish people? History's compensation for their dispersion into diaspora or even a cunning plan to move them all back to Palestine?
The whole argument is as absurd as it is obscene.
 
I spoke only about Nazisim.  It was not the previous persecutions that made israel a reality, but the "Shoa" did.
 
 
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