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Hezbollah's defeat of Israel uncovered

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hezbollah's defeat of Israel uncovered
    Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 08:35
Here are some interesting points.
 
The 8 IDF men were not killed during the kidnappings as the ISraeli propaganda machine would have you believe.  They were killed after an embarrassed IDF commander ordered a pursuit of the kidnappers, this resulted int eh obliteration of a Merkava (and instant death for its 4 crew members) and the destruction of a couple of other vehicles incurring more casualties.
 
Israel did no damage whatsoever to Hezbollah's infrastructure, its tactic was to destroy Lebanon and hope that the Sunnis and Christians would turn against them.
 
The two kidnapped soldiers were not in the sight of any covering fire (HIGHLY CONTRARY TO IDF PROTOCOL ON THE LEBANESE BORDER) - in other words this kidnapping was anticipated given that:
 
Hezbollah soldiers are under orders to "exploit" any weaknesses in the Israeli line and to kidnap soldiers on an indefinite basis.  There was no "Green light" from Iran.  Iran had nothing to do with it.  HEzbollah declared its intentions to carry out kidnappings after Ariel Sharon pulled out of a plan for prisoner exchange three years ago.  ANOTHER LIE perpetuated by the Israeli propaganda machine, both in Israel and in the US, where any criticism of ISrael's policies can well lead to you losing your job, as exemplified in this analysis.
 
This analysis comes in three parts, it is very good reading. Enjoy.
 
HOW HEZBOLLAH DEFEATED ISRAEL
PART 1: Winning the intelligence war
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ12Ak01.html
PART 2: Winning the ground war
PART 3: The political war
 
By Alastair Crooke and Mark Perry


Edited by Zagros - 27-Oct-2006 at 08:54
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 01:37
Good propoganda & strategy. Provoke somebody to destroy your country & then garner support. Talking of hizbolla's infrastructure is ridiculous. What infrastructure did they have ?

Hiding yourself behind women & children is not infrastructure. If the bedrooms & the schools & hospitals where their arms were hidden is counted as infrastructure then of course it's a different matter, but for that the definition of infrastructure would have to be changed.


Edited by Vivek Sharma - 27-Oct-2006 at 01:47
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 09:34

From your ignorant diatribe, it is obvious that you did not read the article (which draws from military and political analysis), thus your opinion (as it is without any citation to a credible source) in this thread is not qualfied, and unwelcome, since you are taking it off topic. Just a recap: this thread is about Hezbollah's defeat of Israel and how it was achieved. 

And for your information: They did not hide behind women and children; they stopped the IDF in its tracks, toe to toe, the IDF achieved zero military goals.  Hezbollah exemplified the quote in your signature.
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  Quote alexISS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 09:54
Originally posted by Zagros

Hezbollah exemplified the quote in your signature.


Yes that's true, Israel lost in the same way it had won the seven days war...

The Israeli army lost it's prestige as, before the attack on Lebanon, it was considered tactically brilliant, but not anymore... For me that's the real defeat of Israel
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" Groucho
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 11:05
Israely military operations in Lebanon were a total failure.Israel not only didnt harm Hezbollah but they made it stronger.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 15:25
Actually IDF had destroyed many of Hezbollah members and missiles. IDF had destroyed Shia neighborhood to, mostly Shias support Hezbollah in Lebnan. So its not a victory for Hesbollah, i think it wont make them stronger.
What about Israel? Yes they lost some prestige, as you said guys. So what? Its not a big deal for Israel. Whats gonna happen? UN or other countries will stop their affairs with Israel? No i dont think so.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 15:28

Israel lost her courage. It is a psychological impact, nothing more or less.

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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 16:39

And Hezbollah lost nothing??? I belive they lost more than Israel.



Edited by erkut - 27-Oct-2006 at 16:40
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 16:48
They lost much more than israel, but they have not as much enemies as israel.
 
Arab can survive after 100 lost against israel, but israel cannot even survive after one big loss.
 
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 16:54
But it wasnt a big lost. Actually Israel never had a big lost since 1948. 
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 17:01
Indeed, but this doesnot mean israel will not lost any war.
 
Loosing courage is generally first step of loosing war. If I am jew, I will try to become more friendly to arabs. Infact Survival of israel(at long term) is at the hand of arabs.
 
 
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 17:04
If you were a jew you cant even get out to street becouse of  bombing-fear.
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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 17:52
Originally posted by erkut

If you were a jew you cant even get out to street becouse of  bombing-fear.
There is a huge difference between being unable to go out because you fear you will be one of the targeted in a random suicide bombing, and between when you are literally locked inside your home due to a curfew that extends to more than half of the year. If you violate the curfew, you are also literally shot. Not to mention that even in days of no curfews, if you live in Gaza or the West Bank, expect a random bullet from an army road station, a missle to hit you because you happen to be walking near a car of a targeted Hamas leader, or even worst, the many cases of whole building turned to dust and iron at 2 or 4 am without any warning because a suspected Hamas leader is in the third floor of that building (it happened already tons of times).
Though, i have a respect of human life and the quality of life for all people and all faiths and origins, I find it typically-biased argument to state the psychological fears of Israelis while there are people nearby who cannot do their basic life activities even if they decided to go over the psychological impact of their ill-treatment and challenge it and go out.


Edited by ok ge - 27-Oct-2006 at 17:53
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 19:16
Originally posted by ok ge

There is a huge difference between being unable to go out because you fear you will be one of the targeted in a random suicide bombing, and between when you are literally locked inside your home due to a curfew that extends to more than half of the year. If you violate the curfew, you are also literally shot. Not to mention that even in days of no curfews, if you live in Gaza or the West Bank, expect a random bullet from an army road station, a missle to hit you because you happen to be walking near a car of a targeted Hamas leader, or even worst, the many cases of whole building turned to dust and iron at 2 or 4 am without any warning because a suspected Hamas leader is in the third floor of that building (it happened already tons of times).
 
OK. not just suicide bomb while you are outside. But jews hit by random (katyusha)missile fires while they are in home too(Just like muslims killed by missiles).
 
I have respect to human life just like you. But not only the muslims are killed. Muslims not the only victims.Ouch In both side civilians are getting hurt.(Dont forget their pain, their mortality equals to the others)
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  Quote Timotheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 21:03
It's quite obvious that the Muslims cant drive the Jews out and the Jews can't drive the Muslims out without severe pain on either side. Neither will either leave voluntarily. Regardless of what should have happened in the past, why can't they learn to live with the present and cease trying to change the past?
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  Quote Aktufe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 22:08
Regardless of what should have happened in the past

I think the problem lies more with what's happening in the present rather than the past...
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 22:36
 
Actually Kaddafi has a good idea about that. Did anyone read his whitebook(a solution for Israel-Palastine problem) He says if there will be two different state in area they'll fight forever, he says they should live togather in one state, wich called Isratine(Israel+Palastine)
But the main problem of that plan nobody want to live with others.
 
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  Quote Pacifist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 23:31
Nonsense. Israel did not lose, it killed about 600 Hizbullah militants, which is much higher then its own casualties. If Israel ever loses a war, it will cease to exist. Not that its going to happen anyway.

The glorious IDF will always crush their enemies Zagros, dont worry my friend!


Edited by Pacifist - 27-Oct-2006 at 23:34


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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 07:28

"My friend", why don't you discuss anything written in the article? Have you even read it? I don't think so.

 
Where is your evidence that 600 Hezbollah fighters were killed? There were only 184 "martyr" burials.  And Shi'ism is very strict in honouring its war dead.


Edited by Zagros - 28-Oct-2006 at 07:29
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 08:15
I'm not saying I like it, but the only thing that was demonstrated here was a militarily far superior state, which could have reduced Lebanon to absolute nothingness, bending to political pressure. There was never any question of whether Israel would win this war or not.

Given Lebanon's odds though, you could say it was some kind of moral victory. To the hungry man even a mere slice of bread is a feast.
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