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The most easterly ancient Roman monument

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The most easterly ancient Roman monument
    Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 17:06

Roman Bridges, Dams, Weirs, Waterfalls, Watermills, Tunnels, Canals, pleasure grounds, ... in Shushtar

The ex-general secretary of UNESCO: The first man-made industrial complex before industrial revolution.

 
 
 
 
 



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 17-Oct-2006 at 17:10
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 17:24

Roman slaves of the Sassanians built that.  Very impressive.



Edited by Zagros - 17-Oct-2006 at 17:26
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 17:39
Incredible topic, incredible pics! Could you provide more background information?

Most of them are though pointed arches - the Romans never built such arches.
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  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 21:12

Wow! Awesome pics! I'm guessing this is post 166 AD, since the invasion of the Parthian Empire by Imperator Trajan. Like Gun Powder Ma brought up, I'm sure the Iranians in later times made some additions, like the pointed arches.

 
Eric
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 22:01
The Romans captives at Shusthar: http://www.livius.org/a/iran/shusthar/shushtar.html
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 05:42
I have found another Roman monument in Persia which lies even further east than Shushtar: the Sassanian city of Bishapur, founded in the third century AD in the modern day province Parsis!

Unlike the typical form of a circle of ancient Persian cities, the city plan of Bishapur is laid out in the hippodamic way with a rectangular grid. Also, archaeologists have found Roman style mosaics in the remains.

Location of the city: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carte_empire_Sassanide.png







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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 09:25

More info:

Shushtar is famous for its great engineering works constructed in ancient times for the disposal and use of the waters of the Karun River. Shushtar's little plateau sits between the main arm of the Karun and an artificial channel more than 100 feet (30 m) deep, and the city itself is crossed by small canals that use the Karun's water. But the most impressive works are three large dams built by Romans to regulate the river and the artificial channel's flow and maintain water levels for irrigation. The greatest of these dams, the Band-e Qeysar (Dam of Caesar), was originally 1,800 feet (550 m) long and supported on its numerous arches Valerian's Bridge. To prevent erosion of the riverbed above the dam, the bed was paved with huge stone slabs bound together with iron. The monumental dam was regarded by later Arab conquerors as one of the wonders of the world.

Valerians bridge, the largest dambridge, 165 meters long, is approximately at the exit of Shushtar. It now has only twenty-eight arches on the left bank and seven on the right bank. It was built of carefully bounded stones bound together with cement. To prevent erosion by the rough waters before the dam, the river bed was paved with large stone slabs together with cement.

Caesar Weir has nine outlet gates on the body of the weir and one in the right side. The altitude of the gates from the river bed are different and the bottom outlet gate is located in left side. The max. discharge into Gargaros Canal is 406 m3/sec and the annual discharge is about 51 m3/sec. This weir is still under operation.

Gargaros Weir and Shushtar Watermills are located 600 m. downstream of Caesar Weir. The crest is 50 m. long, with an altitude of 20 m. This weir doesnt have any gates or water intake. The water passes through the tunnels which have been excavated at the upper part of the mountains at the both sides.

The number of these tunnels are three which have been excavated through the rocks. The longest one is 100 m. These tunnels after passing through the weir are divided into some branches which led water to the inclined shoots of more than 50 watermills. The elevation difference between upstream and downstream created beautiful water falls in front of the weir.

There are 2 tunnels excavated under the Salasel Castle, almost 300m. to Shushtar Weir. These Tunnels after hundred meters downstream join together and become as the Darion open Canal. This canal on its way towards south west of Shushtar is divided into two branches. The first branch after 33 km.

Darion Canal is older than the other historical water structures which were constructed in Shushtar. All the evidences show the water intake procedure of the Darion Canal operated by an old dam before Caesar Dam-Bridge establishment.



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 18-Oct-2006 at 09:29
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 10:47
Originally posted by Zagros

Roman slaves of the Sassanians built that.  Very impressive.

 
 
If they were Romans who really built that they were not slaves but prisoners of war.
 
 
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 17:43
Is this bridge from

a) the Sassanids?
b) from Roman POWs?
c) from later Iranian dynasties?

a) and b) would be remarkable for the early appearance of the pointed arch.

Lashgare Shushtar Bridge, Shushtar, Khuzestan province:

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 18:10
Ancient persian cities were not typically round, the Parthians only built them in that fashion, and they did so because of their Mithraic religion.  Bishapour is apparently made to Greek planning, not Roman.
 
 
Originally posted by Leonardo

Originally posted by Zagros

Roman slaves of the Sassanians built that.  Very impressive.

 
 
If they were Romans who really built that they were not slaves but prisoners of war.
 
 
 
Same difference in this context, there was no PoW class then, no UN.  So what were Gallic PoWs to Caesar? Slaves... same as these Romans to Shapur.
 
 
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 10:12

Apparently some round arches of the bridge have been destroyed and these pointed arches have been built in later periods, it can be seen in this pic:



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 21-Oct-2006 at 07:58
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 09:27
Originally posted by Zagros

Ancient persian cities were not typically round, the Parthians only built them in that fashion, and they did so because of their Mithraic religion.  Bishapour is apparently made to Greek planning, not Roman.
 
 
Originally posted by Leonardo

Originally posted by Zagros

Roman slaves of the Sassanians built that.  Very impressive.

 
 
If they were Romans who really built that they were not slaves but prisoners of war.
 
 
Same difference in this context, there was no PoW class then, no UN.  So what were Gallic PoWs to Caesar? Slaves... same as these Romans to Shapur.
 
 
So for you every soldier, warrior, fighter, combatant  or similar captured in a military campaign is a "slave", interesting ...
 
 


Edited by Leonardo - 20-Oct-2006 at 09:28
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 12:31

Did you miss the part where I said "context"?  Key word - They were ordered to build those constructions, I doubt that they were paid for them, therefore they were enslaved in this instance.  Do you still dispute??? They were PoWs put into slavery making them former warriors, soldiers etc and current slaves.

 


Edited by Zagros - 20-Oct-2006 at 12:34
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 13:36
Originally posted by Zagros

Did you miss the part where I said "context"?  Key word - They were ordered to build those constructions, I doubt that they were paid for them, therefore they were enslaved in this instance.  Do you still dispute??? They were PoWs put into slavery making them former warriors, soldiers etc and current slaves.

 
 
 
So even "contexting" you confirm my previous statement: for you every ancient POW who was ordered to build something and who was not payed for that was a "slave" ....
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 13:40
Right, "contexting" (which you failed intitially to do btw), specifically that which I mentioned .
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  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 14:23
Great pictures guys.
 
Eric
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