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Topic ClosedNew discovery in Macedonia

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: New discovery in Macedonia
    Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 17:09

Nice sources you bring us Menumorut !!! Wikipedia and FYROmian ultra-nationalistic web site!!!Do you beleive that the Slavonic origin habitants of the Macedonian region are the true descents of the ancients?

 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 17:30
I think in a measure yes, the Slavonic habitants of Macedonian region are descendants of the ancient populations, which have been Slavized. The Slav invaders were not as numerous as to people a land as Balkans. But ofcourse, there is a considerable Slav contribution in their genetical and perhaps cultural heritage. I haven't an opinion which was greater.


But that site is not wrong when quotes from ancient authors. That quota show clearly that Macedonians are not Greeks. They were strongly Hellenized, like the Thracians too.

And Wikipedia couldn't be wrong when says that those cities where colonies.

I think Greeks were concentrated mostly in Attica, Peloponissos, Ionia, Thessaly. I don't see how could be Greeks in Macedonia without having a similar way of life with the other Greeks. There are Greek colonies all over the Mediteran and Black seas and all have a clear Greek culture.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 17:33
Originally posted by Menumorut

I think in a measure yes, the Slavonic habitants of Macedonian region are descendants of the ancient populations, which have been Slavized. The Slav invaders were not as numerous as to people a land as Balkans. But ofcourse, there is a considerable Slav contribution in their genetical and perhaps cultural heritage. I haven't an opinion which was greater.
You cover me..thanks for the debateLOL


Edited by akritas - 16-Oct-2006 at 17:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 18:34
Originally posted by akritas

Originally posted by Menumorut

I think in a measure yes, the Slavonic habitants of Macedonian region are descendants of the ancient populations, which have been Slavized. The Slav invaders were not as numerous as to people a land as Balkans. But ofcourse, there is a considerable Slav contribution in their genetical and perhaps cultural heritage. I haven't an opinion which was greater.
You cover me..thanks for the debateLOL
 
Excelent argument, akritas Smile  You either didn't understand Menumorut or didn't want to. His idea was that what actually occured was slavization of authochtonic population. Thus, present "slavonic" population is both slavonic and authochtonous. Which doesnt mean that authochtonous population was slavonic.


Edited by Anton - 16-Oct-2006 at 18:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 01:51
 
Originally posted by Anton

Excelent argument, akritas Smile  You either didn't understand Menumorut or didn't want to. His idea was that what actually occured was slavization of authochtonic population. Thus, present "slavonic" population is both slavonic and authochtonous. Which doesnt mean that authochtonous population was slavonic.
Anton as Bulgarian you have  the same ideas  or better the same theory.The Balkan Amalgamation Theory. A theory that only Slavonic tribes absorbed the ancient tribes  and now I hear of you the new slogan Slavonic and AutochtonousLOL
I don't know how many Bulgarians follow your unsubstantiated and unhistoric claims,actually you don't have any argyments but is sure fthere are many not-Amalgamaters like your Bulgarian scholars that I present you in previous debate. Of course there are Greeks that beleive the modern are descent  genetically from the ancients.But these fortunely are a few.
Beleive what you want to beleive.My self  I beleive what I must to belive and not this that I want.This is our difference.


Edited by akritas - 17-Oct-2006 at 01:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 02:12
Imro since you are descendant of ancient Macedons can you speak teir language?
We are also descedands of ancient Greeks(AThens,Sparta,MAcedons, Illirians,Dories etc) we can understand the ancient language. Can you understand Aristotels if i bring you a text from him?
What Phillip means in you macedonian non greek language?
Akrita just leave it. They are blind. In a different thread he was posting articls and texts from Rainbow(Ouranio Tokso). You remember it of course!!!!
so don't waste your time.
BTW nice posts.Many informations
    

Edited by perikles - 17-Oct-2006 at 02:12
Samos national guard.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 02:20
And lets see descedant of MAcedons if you can understand the teacher of your King. Alexander the great. This is an ancient text from Aristoteles. I am waiting to see the translation in english

Περὶ μνήμης καὶ τοῦ μνημονεύειν λεκτέον τί ἐστι καὶ διὰ τίν΄ αἰτίαν γίγνεται καὶ τίνι τῶν τῆς ψυχῆς μορίων συμβαίνει τοῦτο τὸ πάθος καὶ τὸ ἀναμιμνήσκεσθαι· οὐ γὰρ οἱ αὐτοί εἰσι μνημονικοὶ καὶ ἀναμνηστικοί͵ ἀλλ΄ ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πολὺ μνημονικώτεροι μὲν οἱ βραδεῖς͵ ἀναμνηστικώτεροι δὲ οἱ ταχεῖς καὶ εὐμαθεῖς. πρῶτον μὲν οὖν σκεπτέον ποῖά ἐστι τὰ μνημονευτά· πολλάκις γὰρ ἐξαπατᾷ τοῦτο


Good Luck
    

Edited by perikles - 17-Oct-2006 at 02:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 02:26
@Menumorut:
READ before answering..it is the best way for a conversation.
(in my previous post:"there were many city-states-COLONIES in Macedonia")
Anyway,i m glad u ve read smth(even wikipedia),and learned that there wasnt only 1 city-state in the area.

As for all the other...PLZ stay on topic.
Otherwise,go and revive 1 of the 1000 topics with the exact same subject,and the exact same arguments!!

I m really bored of this debate-especially when people who obviously have never read anything about it,appear with dogmatic opinions.

I cant see a true reason for this thread to exist ,unless IMRO gives us a link with information about the findings.
PS:I guess the shields were an offer by a victory of Demetrius-but which?and a victory over who?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 02:54
Originally posted by perikles


Akrita just leave it. They are blind. In a different thread he was posting articls and texts from Rainbow(Ouranio Tokso). You remember it of course!!!!
so don't waste your time.
BTW nice posts.Many informations
    
Thanks PeriklesSmile
The biggest evidence that we have until now were and are the archaelogical findings.The biggest finding regarding the ancient Macedonians was not the Vergina tombs or Pella but the cemeteries that are spreaded from Epirus to Vergina..All the modern scholars that claim the Hellenizing theory  forget to mention in theirs works deliberately these discoveries. Is known that the Greek archaelogists requested many times to  the FYROMians for scentific coorporation.But until know the only that they face is closing doors.
And I repeat for a 3nd time.Why this shield (250B.C.) had a text on it ? And what kind of text? I  hope to get answers, otherwise I think that we must wait for a long time.
Finally we must not focus to much in the Vergina Sun.This symbol used from the ancient Greek tribes only.Is known to every one that has read ancient Greek history.Actually I showed the Spartna fuguirines.And because today I awake up with good disposition below one more finding as about the Vergina Sun.Spartan  crater  of the 6th cent!!!
 


Edited by akritas - 17-Oct-2006 at 02:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 03:42
"there were many city-states-COLONIES in Macedonia")


How that? If the population was Hellenic, how could be Greek colonies in that area? And you haven't answer about the ancient authors making a clear difference between Greeks and Macedonians.



And because today I awake up with good disposition below one more finding as about the Vergina Sun.Spartan crater of the 6th cent!!!
Thanks for your good disposition, but what you want to say? Was this sun image a symbol in the Greek culture as in the Macedonian? Or just a decorative motif?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 04:03
Read your post and answer yourself:Torone founded VIII cent,Mende 8th,Stagira 655,Potidea 600.
Do you know when was the Macedonian kingdom of Argeads established in Low Macedonia?
-ar.650 BC.
Do you know when it reached the regions of North Chalkidike?
During the rule of Alexander I,after Persians retreated
:-479-450 BC.
Chalkidike peninsula was inhabited Thracian tribes:mainly the Bottiaoi,settled there when expelled by Argeads from their original homeland "Bottiki" ,in central Macedonia (ar.650 BC).

And of course i didnt answer your question about the authors,because i m not here to prove the ethnic identity of any ancient tribe.
There is one active topic about this :"who were the Macedonians" or so,in "Ancient Mediterranean" category.
You can continue there.

As for "Demetrius" mentioned..
Is it Demetrius Poliorketes(I)? or Demetrius II?
I can recall only one significant battle of the II,in 260 against Epirotans,but he was a prince then not a king.
King 239-229)
Maybe it was a minor victory over some northern tribe(in the region of the city of Skopje,and northern)-the Dardanians,before he was defeated in 229,and killed by them.

    
    

Edited by Brainstorm - 17-Oct-2006 at 05:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 05:13
Originally posted by akritas

Anton as Bulgarian you have  the same ideas  or better the same theory.The Balkan Amalgamation Theory. A theory that only Slavonic tribes absorbed the ancient tribes  and now I hear of you the new slogan Slavonic and AutochtonousLOL
I don't know how many Bulgarians follow your unsubstantiated and unhistoric claims,actually you don't have any argyments but is sure fthere are many not-Amalgamaters like your Bulgarian scholars that I present you in previous debate. Of course there are Greeks that beleive the modern are descent  genetically from the ancients.But these fortunely are a few.
Beleive what you want to beleive.My self  I beleive what I must to belive and not this that I want.This is our difference.
 
The difference between me and you is that you are puffed up of your origin and stuff and do not like to understand the arguments provided to you many times. All arguments that were posted were either ignored or called nationalistic. I still wait from some of you evidences for hellenization of all balkan nations and failed. You cry about it in every post but never provide any evidence. That is why guys like you, akritas, do not believe genetical evidences -- they oppose to the current (actually already past) opinion that greeks are the only authochtonous nation in Balkans. Which allows some of your countrymates to feel themselves as fathers of everything, like those in that great movie I permanently site. That is why you instead of giving arguments you use different casuistic tricks. That is the difference between me and you, akritas. Sorry for the oftop.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 05:27
Originally posted by perikles

And lets see descedant of MAcedons if you can understand the teacher of your King.
 
If some of ancient Macedonians were grekomans and turned the development of Macedonia into hellenistic way it is their problem. If Bulgarian grekomans would win in early 20th cent in the whole country then after 2-3 centuries you would claim that Bulgarian tribes were of greek origin and provide linguistic evidences like those that "kanes" and "soupanoi"  sounds greek; most of Bulgarian known people had greek names like Stefanaki Bogoridi, Christoff or Kaloyan and finally Bulgarian are greek orthodox  LOL
 
Language is not the only cultural sign and is signifficantly influenced by conquerors. In this case Slavs. Thus, macedonians do not need to know ancient greek.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 05:33
Originally posted by akritas

Of course there are Greeks that beleive the modern are descent  genetically from the ancients.But these fortunely are a few.
 
Actually I am not sure I understand this sentense. I am not sure you understood it either. Who are modern greeks then? Helenized Slavs? LOL 
Where are genetical descendants of ancient hellenes then?
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 05:37
Originally posted by Anton

 
The difference between me and you is that you are puffed up of your origin and stuff and do not like to understand the arguments provided to you many times. All arguments that were posted were either ignored or called nationalistic. I still wait from some of you evidences for hellenization of all balkan nations and failed. You cry about it in every post but never provide any evidence. That is why guys like you, akritas, do not believe genetical evidences -- they oppose to the current (actually already past) opinion that greeks are the only authochtonous nation in Balkans. Which allows some of your countrymates to feel themselves as fathers of everything, like those in that great movie I permanently site. That is why you instead of giving arguments you use different casuistic tricks. That is the difference between me and you, akritas. Sorry for the oftop.
Who me? I am the person that never prooves and evidence!!!LOLLOLLOL
And don't write quotes that I never posted Angry , you make this a lot of times, like the modern  Greeks are the real authocthonous(genetically) in the Balkans and as about this
Originally posted by Anton

 
I still wait from some of you evidences for hellenization of all balkan nations and failed.
The only Balkan nation that we debate were your beloved Thracians. Nikodemos gave you plenty of evidence as about this matter but .....you beleive what you want to hear.So as I said you carry on with your Balkan Amalgamation Theory,  I prefer mine, this that acceptable from the majority of the Universities and Academies. 
 
Originally posted by Anton

Actually I am not sure I understand this sentense. I am not sure you understood it either. Who are modern greeks then? Helenized Slavs? LOL 
Where are genetical descendants of ancient hellenes then?
 
You have the same ideas with those Greeks.LOLLOL.Pure nationOuch like yours Bulagrians and theT hracian part of  your genetically ancestryLOLLOLLOL


Edited by akritas - 17-Oct-2006 at 05:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 05:57
Originally posted by akritas

The only Balkan nation that we debate were your beloved Thracians.
 
You permanently debate macedonians everywhere aren't you?
 
Nikodemos gave you plenty of evidence as about this matter but .....you beleive what you want to hear.So as I said you carry on with your Balkan Amalgamation Theory,  I prefer mine, this that acceptable from the majority of the Universities and Academies. 
 
MUAHAHA. Academies :) In our university we do not not support your ideas. Well, actually nobody apart me is interested in this topic here Wink
Majority rapidly becomes minority by the way.
Nikodemos, with all my respect to him, posted nothing about this topic.  But posted many interesting posts about Thracians in the antiquity. Many thanks him for that. 
 
You have the same ideas with those Greeks.LOLLOL.Pure nationOuch like yours Bulagrians and theT hracian part of  your genetically ancestryLOLLOLLOL
 
It seems that you don't have any clue about that topic, if you claim that I wrote about purity. I never told about purity. Moreover, people that studied in school at C level or above could easely understand that "purity" and "amalgamation" as you call it are somewhat opposing to each other. Or maybe in your ancient macedonian logic it is not opposing?
And finally, you still cannot persuade people that Ancient Macedonians  were of greek origin
 so don't waste your time on other attempts to make the whole world greek Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 06:35
where the hell are the mods here?
anton tell me a single word u posted and its relevant to the topic !
and akritas..continue posting ONLY for the topic!!
    

Edited by Brainstorm - 17-Oct-2006 at 06:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 06:44
Originally posted by Anton

You permanently debate macedonians everywhere aren't you?
Macedonchoi or Makedones?
Originally posted by Anton

MUAHAHA. Academies :) In our university we do not not support your ideas. Well, actually nobody apart me is interested in this topic here Wink
So why are you post if you are not intresting? Acually I didnt see a single word regarding the thread.SleepyI am not say for argyment because is unknown word for you.Wink
Originally posted by Anton

Majority rapidly becomes minority by the way.
It depends the googles that you wearWink
Originally posted by Anton

Nikodemos, with all my respect to him, posted nothing about this topic.  But posted many interesting posts about Thracians in the antiquity. Many thanks him for that. 
You said it all.Clap
 
Originally posted by Anton

It seems that you don't have any clue about that topic, if you claim that I wrote about purity. I never told about purity. Moreover, people that studied in school at C level or above could easely understand that "purity" and "amalgamation" as you call it are somewhat opposing to each other. Or maybe in your ancient macedonian logic it is not opposing?
You didn't get what I posted....is obviously.Don't bother is waste of time
 
Originally posted by Anton

And finally, you still cannot persuade people that Ancient Macedonians  were of greek origin
 so don't waste your time on other attempts to make the whole world greek Tongue
Who me ? hahahahaha. Anton if you have argyment post them.If you don't then continue to fussy with your Bulgaro-Thracian heritage.
 
Over and OutBig smile


Edited by akritas - 17-Oct-2006 at 06:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 07:02
1. Makedones. And Makedonci as well. It is the same Wink
1.Word "Thracian" was posted by you first. I didn't want to flame.
2. Of course I didn't understand you about purity because what you posted is entirely nonsense. Unless you could explain me how could amalgama be pure.
 
So why are you post if you are not intresting? Acually I didnt see a single word regarding the thread.SleepyI am not say for argyment because is unknown word for you.Wink
 
My friend, see above (number 1)
 
Who me ? hahahahaha. Anton if you have argyment post them.If you don't then continue to fussy with your Bulgaro-Thracian
heritage.
 
I am observer. I am interested in this topic but not that much to search for arguments.
 
So why are you post if you are not intresting?
Well, well nobody is interested here in Ancient Makedontsi as well.
 
Acually I didnt see a single word regarding the thread.SleepyI am not say for argyment because is unknown word for you.Wink
 
Word "argyment" is unknown to me indeed Smile 
 


Edited by Anton - 17-Oct-2006 at 07:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 07:09
Originally posted by akritas

Nice sources you bring us Menumorut !!! Wikipedia and FYROmian ultra-nationalistic web site!!!Do you beleive that the Slavonic origin habitants of the Macedonian region are the true descents of the ancients? 

 
In any argumentation follow the major rule -- if you cannot disprove the statement mix the name of the argumenting person with sh*t.  By that way you decrease the signifficance of the argument itself. No way, akritas! What Menumorut posted were citates of:
 
I know you don't like Demosthenes since he didn't like your ancestors. Especially when he called them non greek. LOL  What do you have against others?
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