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The Crescent and star...

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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Crescent and star...
    Posted: 26-Oct-2013 at 09:04
Ishtar(star) and Sin(moon)
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 12:33

This is the first flag of the Beylik of Osmanli (Ottoman) that was oficially gifted by Alaeddin Keykubad, the Anatolian Seljuk Khan to Ertugrul Bey, the father of Osman Bey. This flag was the symbol of the "uchbeylik" of Ertugrul Bey. Then, this flag was adopted by Osman Bey as the flag of his Beylik.

This is the later flag of the Ottoman Empire adopted before the conquest of Istanbul, and this was the first usage of crescent and sun symbols by an Islamic country in the word.

The red background symbolizes the west, and western Turks. Alaeddin Keykubad decided on this color because the "uchbeylik" was the western border of the Seljuks of Rum. the eight pointed star was in fact a "son" symbol, and had ancient Turkish origins.

And finally, the flag above is the official flag of modern Turkey. The shape of the crescent and the star symbol has partly changed from Ottoman flag. But it still symbolizes the western Turks with its red background, so the red color isnt something special for only Ottoman dynasty, but to all western Turks.

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 11:20
I always thought that the cresent and star were the old Shamanic symbols and Turks kept it through out the Ottoman Empire.  People just assumed it was an Islamic symbol and associated it with Islam.  And that the Turkish flag is red because red represents the blood spilled during the wars and also, red represents west.  Turkey being the most western Turkish nation they put red on the flag.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 10:50

There are several theories of crescent and star. One of them are that symbol of Constantinople before the turkish conquest was a crescent and that Mehmed II just adopted the new symbol. The crescent does not seem to being used much before the conquest of Istanbul.

I think the closest thing you could call a "official flag" for the early Ottoman Empire was the "zulfikar", that three crescent flag with green background(i really like that one BTW) we have seen many times on paintings and movies does not seem to have been used IRL either. But like i say, there is different theories.

The red color on the flag of Republic of Turkey is the royal color of the Ottoman family.  Which is ironic if you think about the stance the republic had against the empire in the past....

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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2005 at 14:49

No, Teri was the God and the Sky.

Kk Teri was the expression used for the "Blue Sky", not for the name of the Turkic deity (the useage of Kk Teri for God started much later). People often confuse Teri and Kk Teri.



Edited by ihsan
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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2005 at 09:37
Well, go figure...
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2005 at 21:37
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Needless to say, the origins of the Crescent & Sun/star are in fact Turkish from ancient times, pre-Islamic. The Turks believed in Shamanisim and more importantly the one supreme Sky God (Tanri) along side others gods like that of the Moon & Sun, when they roamed nomadicaly on horseback in the steppes of Siberia & central Asia.



Tanri is the moon god?  I thought Tangra (Tanri) was the sun god?
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 08:43

thanks guys

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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 08:17
Who attend Jesus' Birth at Bethlehem. They're part of the Christmas lore and tradition. They got there following a falling star in the skies for weeks/months and as they arrived each one offered a gift to the newborn "king". Incense, gold and myrrh (I guess).
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 13:38
Originally posted by azimuth

and by the way who are these three wise men??

 

they were actually kings, named Casper, Melchior and Balthasar

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 02:08
Originally posted by Fizzil

Jack Chick is trying too hard to be serious....

 

the sad thing is people do take him seriously!

"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 22:34

 

in Islamic stories kingdom of Saba was worshipping the Sun as per the news the brid brought to Prophet Sulyman (king solomon in christan stories).

and around Mecca before Mohammed (PBUH) their was three religions the Idol worshippers who belived in God but they belived that the Idols are like the connection between people and God.

the other two religions were christans and Jews

i think the persians religion was there too but may be they didnt come to arabia.

 

and by the way who are these three wise men??

 

 

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  Quote Berosus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 20:38
Yes, the Sabaean kingdom existed in what is now Yemen.  I've heard the name also used for the indigenous religion practiced in and around Mecca before Mohammed.  Several historians, from Gibbon onward, have used the term "Sabaean' to distinguish it from the forms of paganism practiced elsewhere.

For what it's worth, many Bible scholars think that the Queen of Sheba came from there, due to similarities in the names.  The Three Wise Men may have been Arabs, too, because Arabia is about the only place where you can find all three of the gifts they brought (gold, frankincense and myrrh).


Edited by Berosus
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 04:51

 Sabaean was the kingdom in south arabia??

 

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  Quote Berosus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 04:41
I was of the impression that the crescent symbol came from ancient Iraq.  Ur, the home town of Abraham, worshiped a moon-god named Nanna under the Sumerians, and Sin under the Babylonians, and we know that these people were trading with the oldest Arab cities, like Ubar, as early as 900 B.C.   Later on, up until the time of Mohammed, each Arab tribe had different names for the gods, but the moon god was usually the most important.  Hence, the crescent is a carry-over from the pre-Islamic Arab (Sabaean) religion into Islam, and likely an import from the nearest advanced civilization.

By the way, the blue crescent that I use for a logo is supposed to be a Babylonian crescent, not Arab, Islamic or Turkish.  The first forum where I participated, back in 1997, discussed Babylonian history, and it became my online symbol, so I have used it since.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 01:41
Yes, sorry for my English. I wanted to tell that Turks call it Hazar Sea, not all world uses this name...
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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 01:31

Also red sea's name and Caspian Sea's names are given by Turks. We call caspian sea "Hazar Denizi", which takes its name from the Turkish khanate of Hazar...

The name of the Caspian Sea in turkish comes from Khazar, but the name Caspian Sea in English come from the Kaspians, an ancient Iranic tribe.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2004 at 10:00

No. You can understand it from current Turkish language. We call medeterinnean as "AKDENZ" which means white sea, we call Black Sea as "KARADENZ" which means black sea, and that name is given by Turks...

Also red sea's name and Caspian Sea's names are given by Turks. We call caspian sea "Hazar Denizi", which takes its name from the Turkish khanate of Hazar...

 

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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2004 at 18:16
Originally posted by MengTzu

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Interesting note: The representative color of all Turks in the world is Skyblue or Turquiose, but we have also ascribed color to the four cardinal directions (North=Black, East=SkyBlue, South=White, & West=Red). Therefore, the Red background is used to indicate that we are the most geographically western of our family. (Over time and among the folk, the color has also come to represent the Turkish blood shed over the centuries of warfare.)

How fascinating.  The Chinese also ascribe colors to the four winds: Black North, Blue East, Red South, White West, plus Yellow Center.



Isn't White East and Blue West?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2004 at 09:11
It is partly true, but dont forget to look at paganistic deities and symbols in every religion. Christians still show satan with a big fork and two horns as a pagan symbol. Also the cross has an ancient paganistic history...
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