Mexico Threatens to Take the USA Before the UN

Originally posted by pinguin The idea that everyone of them is a bandit, it's just another myth.

I see you feel sincerily pitty for the "poor Vietnamese family", but don't want to feel the same about the "poor Mexican family"

Originally posted by JanusRook ... Anyway I understand that many hispanics are americans (in the sense of belonging to the US) and have accepted the US and their laws and values and traditions but some have not and those are the ones I refer to.

Janus,

Between yesterday and today, something went horribly wrong, and the tone of our conversation dramatically changed. So let�s go back to the original tone of the conversation, and let�s strive to reach understanding.

I know that a popular belief is that corporations benefit a lot from illegal aliens. And maybe they do. But my experience has been that most illegal aliens that I know work for private families, either taking care of their children or mowing their lawns, or cleaning their offices. Many also work for small restaurant, which are often family owned affairs. And then there is the agricultural work. Many work on the fields. I don�t know from what state you come from, but in California most of the work is done by illegal immigrants. And since your family does farming, you are well of the financial strains that farms find themselves in that pushes them to use illegal labor.

And all of these employers tend to me families or small businesses.

I did like that you mention that some neighboring farmers use legal immigrants with visas. They work during the working season, and then they go back home.

And that would be the best solution. The current problem with the system is that it is too complex and difficult to get these visas. If there were some reform that streamlined it, the U.S. could get the labor that it needs and these Mexicans would go back to Mexico, which is their desire in any case. If they know that they can come legally and return legally, then there is no incentive to stay in the U.S. or to bring their families here. In fact, illegal immigrants moving with the whole family is a recent phenomenon that began to happen when crossing the border became a lot harder.


Now, when it comes to the new poverty of the American middle class, this has more to do with our taxation system and our government than with illegal immigrants. Most Americans don�t compete for jobs with illegal immigrants. Unless you cut lawns, pick fruit, do cleaning, watch children, or work in construction, your wages are not being affected by illegal immigrants. And I am in favor of protecting the wages of American workers in the fields where they are affected.

Our new national poverty stems for having a government that has given huge tax cuts to the rich and saddle with most of the financial burdens of the nation on the middle class. It stems from not raising the minimum salary since 1997. And it stems from having weakened unions that cannot negotiate raises against employers; instead, they are fighting with all of their might just to keep the benefits and salaries that they already have.

Obviously there is wealth being generated in America. The Forbes list of the 400 richest people in the world only has billionaires, and many live in the U.S. It is that most of the wealth created by American workers is hogged by the richest people. And the best thing is that the struggling family in the heartland is the one subsidizing the wealth of these billionaires. For even though billionaires are the ones who have benefited the most from the Bush administration, they contribute the less of their income as a percentage to the nation.

In other words, the government of the last six years benefit billionaires, but the middle class pays the bills.

This is another topic of course 

You appear to be well grounded in your accurate observations of Americas media portrayal of immigrants. CNN, and the like, are just a political mouthpiece for the powers in charge. The debate over the flow of illegal immigration is still viable though. There seems to be two issues hovering around this issue. One, regarding the status of current immigrants. Two, the method for stemming the flow of future illegal immigrants.

As I'm re-reading this I wonder how come the US government doen't process immigrants quickly and make a seasonal visa applicable. Is there such a thing in existence? Over the course of time those who pay their taxes would be offered full alien rights (green card).

Then I think about the opposition to this. Those corporations, or small businesses that have a stake in low cost employement. Their game would be over. Unfortunatly, the immigrants get used and abused and don't even get a fair chance at citizenship.

So I remind myself of this bigger picture. Let's not be so quick to accuse the Mexican immigrants for our insecurity and hypocrasy. Patrol the borders efficiently towards stemming large amounts of illegal immigration. Face our own commercial dilemmas by accepting ownership for and correcting such double (illegal) standards.
    
    
    
    
    
    

Edited by Seko - 13-Oct-2006 at 11:51

Janus,

Nothing wrong with being a buckeye Patriot Unfortunately I am not as familiar with Ohio than I am with California or Virginia.

I do know that the situation over there is different from that of California. I know that there was been competition for labor with illegal immigrants there.


Now, I am sure that you will agree that to a large part illegaly crossing the border is illegal by law, not really by action, unlike, say, robbery of murder. The only reason why people crossing the border illegally is a crime is because it is written that way. When it wasn't a crime, plenty of immigrants in the past just hopped on the boat and came to America, and they were not criminals. Change the law, and the suddenly if you do the same action, you are a criminal.

And to be honest, it is silly to criminalize something that so many people are doing. Since many people benefit from the flow of immigrants, maybe it would easier and cheaper to legalize some flow, and that way have a better control over immigration.

And please, understand that I am not morally justifying people crossing illegaly. I am not. Currently it is against the law, and they shouldn't do it. My statements attempt to explain the situation, not justify it.

I find it very similar to the situation with booze during prohibition. People wanted it so much, that they broke the law. Or the case with contraband in closed markets. No matter how much those Soviets disliked American culture, those Levis managed to get to the USSR.

What I am saying is that economic forces in the U.S. encourage people to hire illegal aliens, and this labor demand encourages people to come illegaly. And what I am saying is that there is no reason why we should make criminals out of otherwise honest people. When the system makes it hard for people to follow the rules, people break them.

If a seasonal work permit can be arranged, niether the employer or the immigrant will be a criminal. All sides win: Mexicans get dollars that will improve the countries economy(which in turn will keep people happy in their country) and Americans get cheap labor for agricultural work.

A streamlined system will allow honest Mexicans to go and get work, and then go back to Mexico. A fully funded and staffed Border Patrol will keep drugs and criminals out of the country. Everyone wins :)

Very controversial topic....

Arch Buff,

As one of us, you know that people do integrate, especially Mexicans. And you must be familiar with how illegal immigrants encourage their children to learn English, even if they themselves can't learn it. When they can, they work very hard on learning English.

And if enforcement is the issue, then we need more people like your dad. They can actually make a real difference, instead of an unguarded wall. And if we have the people, why bother building the wall then?

And having people like your dad enforcing guarding the border is the best solution. They are trained in how to handle immigrants in a respectful manner, looking after their well being.

So, do you still speak Spanish at home?

No hugoestr I dont speak fluent spanish but rather know "broken" spanglish if you will. My fathers dad(my Tata) didnt want to grow his kids up with anything other than english being their first language. He rather learned this well, seeing as he was whipped in class at times growing up because he didnt know english that well and sometimes had to resort to talking in spanish for the words he didnt know how to articulate in english, thus the caucasian teachers took this as him being disrespectful him saying words in spanish that he might get in trouble for had he spoken them in english. He was born in 1906 so these were the olden days but he got the message rather well -If youre gonna live here youre gonna have to learn the language-. But being bilingual is a very good thing where I live, definately an advantage especially career-wise.

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy I wanted to post a page saying that where towns had fences along the border, crime droppedalmost 50%. Most of the crime called in though is from people complaining that illegals are crossing in their backyard and dropping trash on their land. Though if there is on continuous fence, I think the problem will arise again since they won't be looking for a easy path in but trying to get over the nearest part quickly. I think the fence would be effective if there is is more manpower on the border along with top technology. The fence will definitly slow them down and with top technology the proper authorities could get their in time to stop them. The only reason the Mexican government is upset is that they get millions of dollars injected into their economy from the illegal crossings. There's even reports of the Mexican Military helping immigrants get across. To end my rambling, I agree with the fence if other measures are done with it. It's one step in stopping one of the biggest pieces of the pie contributing to the illegal immigration, there's alot more to be done elsewhere too.

Hi, there. I know that if the wall would be guarded well, then it would work. But if you are guarding the border well to begin with, there is no need for a wall.

Furthermore, the desert is the wall. Walking through that is hard.

So, instead of wasting money building a wall, why can't our leaders strengthen border guarding instead?