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Mexico Threatens to Take the USA Before the UN

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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mexico Threatens to Take the USA Before the UN
    Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 21:45
Originally posted by Genghis

Originally posted by hugoestr

Originally posted by Genghis

It is not unethical to prevent people from violating the laws of a nation.

I also think you're missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm not saying that the US hasn't meddled in other countries' affairs, but that does not justify their meddling in our affairs unless you're advocating talionic meddling.
      Ghenghis, I understand what you are saying. And you are right: Mexico doesn't have a legal or moral right to stop the U.S. But Mexico is not going to stop the U.S. It can't do that. And the UN can't do this either. There is no real meddling because it lacks the power to effectively meddle in the U.S. This is more like diplomatic shaming. And just as the U.S. is in its right to do a wrong, Mexico has the right to point out the wrong to the rest of the world. This would be the same if Iran erected an anti-American monument. The U.S. can't stop them, but the U.S. has in its right to point out the actions of Iran.


I would argue that Mexico has no right to even make judgements about our internal affairs, much less try to shame us about them.


Don't try to say I'm being inconsistent either, just because America makes moral judgements about other countries, such as with our idiotic meddling in the Darfur situation, doesn't mean I think that those actions are any less stupid.


Countries should just keep their mouths shut about other people's business unless those policies are threatening.

    

Genghis,

First, all nations can make as many moral statements as they want. They have the right to do so, the same way as individuals have the right to free speech.

Second, since this wall is specificly meant for Mexicans, Mexicans do have the right to protest it and to point out the moral indignity of it since it affects them.


On the other hand, I see the resistance to have the U.S. even critcizing by its actions to be a tacit admission of wrongdoing. Otherwise, why so much defensiveness? When individuals do good, we welcome comment on their actions. We only become defensive when we are do wrong.

So, what is it? Do you think that the U.S. is comitting a mistake by building this wall, and that is why you don't anyone commenting on it?
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 21:51
Originally posted by vulkan02

Its very simple really and it happens today like it has happened throughout history. The US topples goverments, starts wars, starts revolutions because it can and tires to establish its influence in the world so in the future no one can stop her from pursuing her goals. I don't think US would start a war because another nation's immigration policies don't satisfy her so I insist that Mexico has no business to tell this administration what to do with our southern borders. Instead Mexico should be thankful US is doing this and not complain about it being racially motivated. This way people can actually help their own country prosper as Mexico is already a developing country instead of working jobs with horrible conditions in the US and joining rival criminal gangs.


Vulkan02,

Please share your ethnic background with all of us. After doing so, we may all begin going through the ethnic insults to that people, the way you just did against Mexicans in the last sentence of your piece.

It is exactly comments like yours which highlight the racial sentiments about the wall. And it is the guilt that people feel about this racially motivated wall which propels them to say that no one is in the right to morally judge the U.S.

I could go on and stress the racial prejudices that you have. But I rather will ask you to reconsider them, understanding that you wouldn't want to be subjected to the same treatment.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 22:01
Walls does not work.
 
The Berlin Wall did not stop communism from falling down.
 
The Chinese Wall didn't stop the mongols LOL
 
And the Tortilla Wall is born death.
 
Better than isolating from Mexicans, Americans should learn to live with them. After all you are neighbours.
 
Have you forgotten, "Americans" that TWO millions of U.S. citizens live happily .... in MEXICO ?
 
Pinguin
 


Edited by pinguin - 11-Oct-2006 at 22:02
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 22:07
Protesting another countries actions are an age old form of sharing discontent. The statement by Genghis, "Countries should just keep their mouths shut about other people's business unless those policies are threatening." are a reflection of how myopic we can be.


The problem with a wall is morally questionable and insulting but how else to stem the flow of illegal immigration? I heard from someone that an hourly GM wage for Mexican plants are around $1.50 (didn't verify). Those same workers also know that they could make a minimum wage about four times that amount in Texas or New Mexico.

The issues seems to revolve around placating Americans with a protectionist stance versus the ability to incorporate Mexican labour at reasonable rates.

Should Americans establish a protectionist stance towards unskilled labour while our middle class is eroding away? (In my opinion the immigration debate in congress is a smokescreen that ignores this bigger issue)

Lastly, does the Mexican government encourage emigration?

Questions I don't have answers to. No offence intended.


    

Edited by Seko - 11-Oct-2006 at 22:10
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 22:26
Originally posted by hugoestr

Originally posted by vulkan02

Its very simple really and it happens today like it has happened throughout history. The US topples goverments, starts wars, starts revolutions because it can and tires to establish its influence in the world so in the future no one can stop her from pursuing her goals. I don't think US would start a war because another nation's immigration policies don't satisfy her so I insist that Mexico has no business to tell this administration what to do with our southern borders. Instead Mexico should be thankful US is doing this and not complain about it being racially motivated. This way people can actually help their own country prosper as Mexico is already a developing country instead of working jobs with horrible conditions in the US and joining rival criminal gangs.


Vulkan02,

Please share your ethnic background with all of us. After doing so, we may all begin going through the ethnic insults to that people, the way you just did against Mexicans in the last sentence of your piece.

It is exactly comments like yours which highlight the racial sentiments about the wall. And it is the guilt that people feel about this racially motivated wall which propels them to say that no one is in the right to morally judge the U.S.

I could go on and stress the racial prejudices that you have. But I rather will ask you to reconsider them, understanding that you wouldn't want to be subjected to the same treatment.


For sure I will Hugoestr and I am fully aware that we Albanians don't receive the most positive feedback everywhere we immigrate either.
You probably misunderstood my comment about Mexicans and its not at all intended to be racist. However the truth is that most Mexicans in the US do work jobs with horrible conditions and pay way lower than the minimum wage. Some others who don't want to work these jobs or can't get jobs end up being part of the many gangs all across the US and especially California because they can't get adapted to the US way of life, language etc.

Im not attempting to say that the Mexicans are the only gangsters in the US as there many other groups, Albanians being one of them. But since Mexicans are one of the largest minorities in the US they sure do get noticed more than most in the media and jails .

Anyways the point of this thread is wether the US is right in constructing a fence across its southern border in Texas shared with Mexico. While I admit that it might be racist it might ultimately prove an effective way of diminishing illegal immigration which US has the right to implement.
BTW when Greece closes its borders or in extreme cases they even shoot Albanian immigrants going in and out a lot of people condemn it as being barbaric etc. For most of the cases its their right to do as they wish, especially since Albanian immigration there has reached almost 1 million.


Edited by vulkan02 - 11-Oct-2006 at 22:28
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 22:28
Originally posted by pinguin

Walls does not work.

The Berlin Wall did not stop communism from falling down.


The Chinese Wall didn't stop the mongols [IMG]height=17 alt=LOL src="http://www.allempires.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>


And the Tortilla Wall is born death.


Better than isolating from Mexicans, Americans should learn to live with them. After all you are neighbours.


Have you forgotten, "Americans" that TWO millions of U.S. citizens live happily .... in MEXICO ?


Pinguin



And 12 million Mexicans live happily in the US.

I think we could carry this discussion with courtesy in mind. Hugoestr models the type of demeanor we should establish.
    
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 06:34
Originally posted by Seko

The problem with a wall is morally questionable and insulting but how else to stem the flow of illegal immigration?

not
It's an illusion you can stop immigration. Once is has started, it is almost impossible to stop. This wall won't help either, it's just a symbolic measure.

The best thing you can do is channel immigration. Make sure Mexicans who immigrate to the US get a reasonable pay. Usually they go back to Mexico then after some years, and they can invest their money in Mexico. At the end this solution is better for both Mexico and the US.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 07:11
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

Originally posted by Seko

The problem with a wall is morally questionable and insulting but how else to stem the flow of illegal immigration?

not
It's an illusion you can stop immigration. Once is has started, it is almost impossible to stop. This wall won't help either, it's just a symbolic measure.

The best thing you can do is channel immigration. Make sure Mexicans who immigrate to the US get a reasonable pay. Usually they go back to Mexico then after some years, and they can invest their money in Mexico. At the end this solution is better for both Mexico and the US.


I beg to differ about stopping immigration, especially the illegal type. Australia does a fine job of it (though America is not so fortunate to be an island like us). Even if you can't stop it, you can make the process so incredibly painful and gruelling as to dissuade all but a small fraction of the prospective illegal migrants.
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 09:04

The best thing you can do is channel immigration. Make sure Mexicans who immigrate to the US get a reasonable pay. Usually they go back to Mexico then after some years, and they can invest their money in Mexico. At the end this solution is better for both Mexico and the US.


How is this solution better for the US if Mexican citizens to take jobs from US citizens so that later on they can take that money to Mexico?


Walls does not work.
 
The Berlin Wall did not stop communism from falling down.
 
The Chinese Wall didn't stop the mongols LOL
 
And the Tortilla Wall is born death.


So how many people leave North Korea to South Korea successfully every year?


Some others who don't want to work these jobs or can't get jobs end up being part of the many gangs all across the US and especially California because they can't get adapted to the US way of life, language etc.


Remember people poverty causes crime. Many new immigrants are poor, especially illegal immigrants. Therefore new immigrants engage in criminal activities in an attempt to better their own lives. Take the mafia of the 30's for instance.

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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 09:24
Originally posted by vulkan02



Originally posted by hugoestr

Originally posted by vulkan02

Its very simple really and it happens today like it has happened throughout history. The US topples goverments, starts wars, starts revolutions because it can and tires to establish its influence in the world so in the future no one can stop her from pursuing her goals. I don't think US would start a war because another nation's immigration policies don't satisfy her so I insist that Mexico has no business to tell this administration what to do with our southern borders. Instead Mexico should be thankful US is doing this and not complain about it being racially motivated. This way people can actually help their own country prosper as Mexico is already a developing country instead of working jobs with horrible conditions in the US and joining rival criminal gangs.


Vulkan02,

Please share your ethnic background with all of us. After doing so, we may all begin going through the ethnic insults to that people, the way you just did against Mexicans in the last sentence of your piece.

It is exactly comments like yours which highlight the racial sentiments about the wall. And it is the guilt that people feel about this racially motivated wall which propels them to say that no one is in the right to morally judge the U.S.

I could go on and stress the racial prejudices that you have. But I rather will ask you to reconsider them, understanding that you wouldn't want to be subjected to the same treatment.
For sure I will Hugoestr and I am fully aware that we Albanians don't receive the most positive feedback everywhere we immigrate either.You probably misunderstood my comment about Mexicans and its not at all intended to be racist. However the truth is that most Mexicans in the US do work jobs with horrible conditions and pay way lower than the minimum wage. Some others who don't want to work these jobs or can't get jobs end up being part of the many gangs all across the US and especially California because they can't get adapted to the US way of life, language etc. Im not attempting to say that the Mexicans are the only gangsters in the US as there many other groups, Albanians being one of them. But since Mexicans are one of the largest minorities in the US they sure do get noticed more than most in the media and jails .Anyways the point of this thread is wether the US is right in constructing a fence across its southern border in Texas shared with Mexico. While I admit that it might be racist it might ultimately prove an effective way of diminishing illegal immigration which US has the right to implement. BTW when Greece closes its borders or in extreme cases they even shoot Albanian immigrants going in and out a lot of people condemn it as being barbaric etc. For most of the cases its their right to do as they wish, especially since Albanian immigration there has reached almost 1 million.


Vulkan02,

I was irked more about the statement about Mexicans being in gangs than for the description that Mexicans do poor paying jobs. Most Mexicans are not in gangs or join gangs for the simple reason that they are busy working on those poor paying jobs

I will not deny that there is a gang problem, especially among the children of immigrants. But stating that there is a gang problem from saying that most Mexicans choose either a poor-paying job or a gang is a bit misleading.

From what you said in your last statement, I think that it is clear that it was an honest mistake when you were trying to present the problems of the community, instead of being a statement that most Mexicans are criminals.


I am sure that Albanian immigrants in Greece are mostly honest people. And I am sure that there is probably a criminal element that migrates with the rest as well. So you must be familiar with the feeling that it is not fair to judge the whole of the Albanian population by its criminal minority.


Now, what I personally find insulting about the wall is that it is purely symbolic, and it is a symbolism of Mexican prejudice. The border is too long for a wall to be of any help. And the U.S. border patrol lacks the people to actually watch the boder in an effective manner, with a wall or without it.

I doubt that the Mexican government would be protesting the U.S. increasing their border patrol numbers. The U.S. is within its right to do so. And personally, I would prefer that the money that is going to be wasted on this wall is spent on jobs for American families.

It is the insult of the wall that they are protesting.

One final thing note: the Greek are within their rights to protect their border, but shooting people is uncalled for. They can capture them, detain them, but crossing a border is not a reason to kill or threaten to a kill a person.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 11:46
Originally posted by JanusRook

How is this solution better for the US if Mexican citizens to take jobs from US citizens so that later on they can take that money to Mexico?

Because after a while those immigrants return to Mexico (because they've earned enough money). If there are many illegal immigrants with low paid jobs, those will not only take the jobs away from Americans, but also won't earn enough money to get back to Mexico. So in the end there will be more Mexican immigrants in the US.

25 years ago 50% of the Mexicans who moved to the US returned to Mexico within 5 years. Nowadays moving to the US is much more difficuly, costly and dangerous, and less than 10% returns within 5 years.
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 12:33
Originally posted by hugoestr

[QUOTE=vulkan02]


Vulkan02,

I was irked more about the statement about Mexicans being in gangs than for the description that Mexicans do poor paying jobs. Most Mexicans are not in gangs or join gangs for the simple reason that they are busy working on those poor paying jobs

Maybe I didn't verbalise this in the right way but I also agree that few are criminals and gangsters...


I am sure that Albanian immigrants in Greece are mostly honest people. And I am sure that there is probably a criminal element that migrates with the rest as well. So you must be familiar with the feeling that it is not fair to judge the whole of the Albanian population by its criminal minority.

Oh yes I am, even though Albanian criminal activities are not as prevalent here in the US as they are in Europe.


Now, what I personally find insulting about the wall is that it is purely symbolic, and it is a symbolism of Mexican prejudice. The border is too long for a wall to be of any help. And the U.S. border patrol lacks the people to actually watch the boder in an effective manner, with a wall or without it.

I doubt that the Mexican government would be protesting the U.S. increasing their border patrol numbers. The U.S. is within its right to do so. And personally, I would prefer that the money that is going to be wasted on this wall is spent on jobs for American families.

It is the insult of the wall that they are protesting.

I somewhat agree with that, the cost to built the wall must be assesed wether it is more wasteful instead of helpful to the situation.

One final thing note: the Greek are within their rights to protect their border, but shooting people is uncalled for. They can capture them, detain them, but crossing a border is not a reason to kill or threaten to a kill a person.

Very uncalled for but it has happened in isolated incidents. The Greek government can't stand that Albanians work there and then send their hard earned money to their families, or go to Albania for vacations etc.
Very similar to what Mexicans do in the US.
I remember last time I visited, the border was closed for 4 days and a whole convoy of cars were trapped while trying to go back to Greece. A couple of women miscarriaged and thousands fell ill because of the dehydration, unsanitary conditions etc.



Edited by vulkan02 - 12-Oct-2006 at 12:36
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 12:47

And personally, I would prefer that the money that is going to be wasted on this wall is spent on jobs for American families.


Perhaps a huge building project could give jobs to poor american families. Like the Tennessee Valley Authority in the 30's. Of course even if this was the case it wouldn't be like that, illegal mexican labor would be the backbone to building the wall (ironically enough).


Now, what I personally find insulting about the wall is that it is purely symbolic, and it is a symbolism of Mexican prejudice. The border is too long for a wall to be of any help. And the U.S. border patrol lacks the people to actually watch the boder in an effective manner, with a wall or without it.


I do not believe that the border is too long to moniter, it's just that the US government is so mismanaged that they have conflicting responsibilities. If border security was governed by ONE federal agency then it would be feasible, personally I'd like to see it in the hands of the military. Rather than being a mish-mash of Border Patrol, Customs, FBI, CIA, National Guard, Army and Local Police.

Also I don't necesarily believe that a Korean type wall will be feasible but I do believe a "moving wall" would work. The border between Mexico and the US is 2000 miles long. If you paid 2000 people to guard one mile of the border full time, heck even if you split it into three 8 hour shifts its only 6000 people, and these people could then report to the proper authorities (again I say the military) and the illegals could then be rounded up for processing.

Again I'm glad I don't have to make these kinds of decisions, and good thing too I'm more of a cleansing fire kind of problem-solver. However what I suggested is feasible for the current direction the US populace seems to want to go in.


Because after a while those immigrants return to Mexico (because they've earned enough money). If there are many illegal immigrants with low paid jobs, those will not only take the jobs away from Americans, but also won't earn enough money to get back to Mexico. So in the end there will be more Mexican immigrants in the US.


I agree that wages should be increased but corporations should be held accountable for illegals, if they couldn't get work here then they wouldn't come here. Mixcoatl the US has nothing against legal mexican immigration but to just say, "It's all right that you think you can make a better life in america so just come over without being processed and screw over a poor vietnamese family that's been waiting ten years to get here." Is just plain wrong, those that actually research immigration aren't upset with illegal mexicans because they are mexican but because of the perceived disregard for their other people who are in the same situation.


25 years ago 50% of the Mexicans who moved to the US returned to Mexico within 5 years. Nowadays moving to the US is much more difficuly, costly and dangerous, and less than 10% returns within 5 years.


Yes and far less mexicans arrived 25 years ago. 25 years ago the southwest was in need of workers and many of those mexicans immigrated legally on work visas. Nowadays the southwest is one of the fastest growing regions of the US thanks to americans moving from the east and mexicans moving from the south, so this change is caused by the shifting demographics.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 13:12
How about this solution. Get yourselves a proper border force.


Edited by Sparten - 12-Oct-2006 at 13:14
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 14:43
Originally posted by JanusRook

...agree that wages should be increased but corporations should be held accountable for illegals, if they couldn't get work here then they wouldn't come here. Mixcoatl the US has nothing against legal mexican immigration but to just say, "It's all right that you think you can make a better life in america so just come over without being processed and screw over a poor vietnamese family that's been waiting ten years to get here." Is just plain wrong, those that actually research immigration aren't upset with illegal mexicans because they are mexican but because of the perceived disregard for their other people who are in the same situation.
 
I see you feel sincerily pitty for the "poor Vietnamese family", but don't want to feel the same about the "poor Mexican family"
 
That's precisely what Mexican percive: (1) Racism agains Mexicans. (2)Favoritism for Asians.
 
But "Americans" (I put in quotes because any person of the Western Hemisphere is an American and not only U.S. people)... but "Americans" I said forget that Hispanics are more than 45 millions in the U.S. already, and they are the younger and faster growing group in the U.S. Even if Hispanic immigration stop TODAY, they will be 25% of the "American" people by 2050.
 
So "Americans" better get acustummed to Hispanics, because now is to late to close the fence.
 
And not all hispanics work picking oranges. Some give work to Anglo-"Americans".
 
Pinguin
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 12-Oct-2006 at 14:44
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 15:02
Sparten,

Yes, a proper border force is the solution here. Janus is on to a plan. Personally I believe that it will take more people because you need more than one lone person to stop an individual, but let's say you need five times what Janus calculated. That would be 30,000 stable American jobs there. And from what I understand, the Border Patrol seems to have enough power on patrol the borders. Our government refuses to give them enough people and enough budget to do this correctly.

And a border patrol would bring stable jobs, unlike the very temporary ones brought from building a wall.

Janus,

Unfortunately, it is not corporations who benefit from illegal immigration. It is practical the whole society. Many illegal immigrants work for private families, not corporations.

One of the problems is that American wages have been stagnant for so long by now. The less money people have, the more likely they are from hiring illegal immigrants that will work for less money.

Because of low wages for American families, food producers must keep prices low--thus they hire illegal immigrants.

For the same reason, restaurants hire illegal immigrants. Even Walmart itself hired illegal immigrants in its quest for keeping prices low.


My personal belief is that the U.S. cannot create a meaningful immigration policy with Mexico because it wants it both ways: it wants the illegal labor because it is cheaper, but feels uneasy about having these Mexicans in the U.S., especially certain groups of Americans.

So, the U.S. wants cheap labor, but don't want them lingering in the country.

Mexicans, on the other hand, don't really want to stay in the U.S.

Temporary work visas would be the best solution, allowing Mexicans to come to the U.S. and leave when the job season is over. Mexicans get dollars and the U.S. gets the cheap labor that it wants.

Furthermore, a Marshall Plan-like program for development in Mexico can help to keep people employed in Mexico, provided that it is based on proven policies instead of radical free-market theories.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 15:22
I do agree with everything here:

Originally posted by HUGOESTR

My personal belief is that the U.S. cannot create a meaningful immigration policy with Mexico because it wants it both ways: it wants the illegal labor because it is cheaper, but feels uneasy about having these Mexicans in the U.S., especially certain groups of Americans.

So, the U.S. wants cheap labor, but don't want them lingering in the country.

Mexicans, on the other hand, don't really want to stay in the U.S.

Temporary work visas would be the best solution, allowing Mexicans to come to the U.S. and leave when the job season is over. Mexicans get dollars and the U.S. gets the cheap labor that it wants.

Furthermore, a Marshall Plan-like program for development in Mexico can help to keep people employed in Mexico, provided that it is based on proven policies instead of radical free-market theories.


The wall idea is filled with prejudism. No wall.

However, the issue about food producers keeping low prices by hiring illegal immigrants is not difficult to overcome. Americans who currently don't work such jobs would be given a minimum wage according to the state they are employed in. This may be more costly for business. The extra cost could be passed onto the consumer. A few cents to a dollar in order to make and keep jobs is not a big price to pay.


    
    

Edited by Seko - 12-Oct-2006 at 15:25
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 17:27
Originally posted by hugoestr


Genghis,

First, all nations can make as many moral statements as they want. They have the right to do so, the same way as individuals have the right to free speech.

Second, since this wall is specificly meant for Mexicans, Mexicans do have the right to protest it and to point out the moral indignity of it since it affects them.


On the other hand, I see the resistance to have the U.S. even critcizing by its actions to be a tacit admission of wrongdoing. Otherwise, why so much defensiveness? When individuals do good, we welcome comment on their actions. We only become defensive when we are do wrong.

So, what is it? Do you think that the U.S. is comitting a mistake by building this wall, and that is why you don't anyone commenting on it?
 
To address point one, of course nations have that right, but they shouldn't use it, it just entangles them into a bunch of nonsense they need not be involved in.
 
With point two, no, I do not feel ashamed that the US is doing this.  I am just sick of certain people acting like Mexicans have the right to break American laws and come into this country uninvited, or that they have a right to come into this country at all.  American citizens have absolute control of the USA and if we wanted to wall ourselves in like Tokugawa Japan, that would be our right.
 
And of course this wall is meant for Mexicans, they're mostly the ones breaking our laws!
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 18:03
Genghis,

What is the point of having a right if you cannot use it ? I am not trying to put you in a hard place, but it is normal that if one is punched, one will scream as a reaction.

And your second point, I must disagree again. If you really don't feel ashame, why do you insist that Mexico shouldn't talk about it? If there is no reason to be ashame, why being upset about this to begin with?

And I thank you for sharing your true reason why feel upset about this: you dislike Mexicans because you believe that they are breaking the law when they enter illegally in the U.S.

Now, I understand why this bother you, and I support those who want something done about this issue. But I want something that will actually work and isn't offensive to Mexicans, mainly because I am one

Janus made an excellent point in his contribution to this discussion: get the border well guarded. I have no problem with this solution. This will actually work, and the interactions between the Border Patrol and illegal immigrants are very respectful.

But more than anything else, this will work.

Don't you agree that a fully funded and manned Border Patrol is a better use of money than a useless wall?

And why wouldn't you rather have the money spent in a way that will actually prevent Mexicans from entering the country illegally than building a monument to anti-Mexican sentiments?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 18:21
I believe there is a choice for Americans that don't want Mexicans in the U.S. They can go back to Mother Europe Wink
 
Demographics show Hispanics will be 25% of the Americans by 2050, so you better hurry up.
 
Otherwise, I don't see the problem. Most Mexicans are regular, civilized fellows. The idea that everyone of them is a bandit, it's just another myth.
 
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