Saxon and Scythian

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Originally posted by King John You're playing fast and loose with terms here, Cyrus. Dad and Daurt are a long way from déor. Not to mention you still didn't respond to the question I posed to you after I pointed out that déor in OE has multiple meanings and that the meaning you ascribe to it is secondary. I will ask you again, where does deor meaning animal, beast fit into your point? Daurt and Dad are not etymologically the same. Do want to say Old English "Deor" (Wild Animal) and Middle Persian "Daurt" have different origins? "Dam" in modern English means both "barrier" and "animal" too, what does it prove?

Edited by gcle2003 - 02-Jun-2008 at 16:41

It wasn't us who started the Saxon-Scythian connection

What are our beliefs?? Please explain us before you leave. You mean the existence of PGer, don't you?


Edited by Slayertplsko - 02-Jun-2008 at 18:24

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri You believe Saxons were not the same Scythians, I think if ancient Scythians and Saxons come out of their graves and say themselves they are the same people, your beliefs won't be changed! What about me!

You don't think it's a clue that no one except you believe in this fantasies? Neither anyone on the forum, or any linguist or historian*?




*Medieval fairy tellers, romantics or Nazis doesn't count as a reliable source.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri You believe Saxons were not the same Scythians, I think if ancient Scythians and Saxons come out of their graves and say themselves they are the same people, your beliefs won't be changed! What about me!

We believe so because it's a historical fact. All your so-called 'evidence' has been proved wrong. You weren't able to challenge ours.

And then you started to deny the existence of PGer - your criterion was probably that it isn't an attested language. But a few questions arise then. Why are you using Persian to back up your Scythian-Saxon theory?? If you don't believe in PGer, then you probably don't believe in Proto-Iranian either. So therefore you can't (by your own logics) link Persian to Scythian. And since we know almost nothing about the Scythian language, it can't be considered (by your own logics) real either.

And one more thing that you aren't able to explain: how did Scythians (who didn't exist at the time) manage to get into Scandinavia and be ancestral to Germanic tribes??

You also tried to separate Saxons from other Germanic peoples - you also failed at this point.

And you have constantly been contradicting yourself. Just a few examples:

1, I have never said that Swedes and other Germanic peoples were Scythians but I believe they were strongly influenced by Scythian/Saxon culture. – are you sure?
2, "Germanic languages originate from the Scythian/Saxon language. "
3, As I said in the old thread, it can be even said that Scythians were originally a Germanic people who migrated to the south and mixed with Iranic peoples. – Aha. I have always wondered about it.
4, Scythians were an iranian people who lived in the northern part of West Asia and Europe, in fact the first known people who lived in this region. - Now read the previous one again
5, Saqsins, like Azeris, could be just Turkified, but it is very obvious that they were originally Alani/Iranic people. I hope you know the differences between original Turks and Turkified peoples.
6, I said in this thread that Scythians can be also considered as a Germanic people, it doesn't change the fact that Saxons were the same Scythians. - you said the exact contrary as well and you’re gonna say that again:
7, Greeks called Sacae "Scythia" and Iran (Airana) "Alan", these are different names, not different peoples. Scythians/Sacae/Saka/Sacasene/Sacassani/Saxons were just different names of an Iranian/Alani people, of course they differ from Persians, Parthians, Medians, Kurds, Lurs, Gilakis, Mazanis, Tajiks and other Iranic peoples. – And now read the whole section again and then once more.

You ignored what we said....I asked you to explain a few things - aren't you able to do so??

And about the Aryan race...LOL Cyrus

So - is PGer real or not??


Edited by Slayertplsko - 02-Jun-2008 at 19:32

I have explained these things several times, the problem is that you don't believe in the sources, there are several ancient sources which show there was a Scythian language, what about Proto-Germanic? Just show me an ancient source about it.

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy Well, you left me speechless, I can't believe you even said that. It was a myth, a tall tale about the people of Atlantis. He didn't think they were Iranic, he thought of them as the lost tribe of a master race, of all blonde hair and blue eyes. Do you have Blonde Hair and Blue eyes? If not, your not Arayan to Hitler's and those believed in the Germanic/Arayan connection.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Originally posted by Suren Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Originally posted by King John Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Old English Online: http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/engol-BF-R.html   <déor> brave, valiant  Cyrus, there is one problem with your definition, it is not complete. The first definition for Déor is not brave, valiant but rather animal, beast.1 Where does that fit into your point? http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=deer&searchmode=none : Deer O.E. deor "animal, beast," from P.Gmc. *deuzan, the general Gmc. word for "animal" (as opposed to man), but often restricted to "wild animal" (cf. O.N. dyr, O.H.G. tior, Ger. Tier, Goth. dius)   Middle Persian: Daurt and Modern Persian Dad (beast of prey, wild animal) -> http://www.windictionary.com/Persian-English-dad-Default.aspx   Cyrus, I've never heard about Dad meaning beast or wild animal in Modern Persian. In which dialect are you talking about? You know Persian language, don't you? "Dad" is the only Persian word for "Wild Animal", antonym of "Dam" which means "domesticated animal"   Please search "dad" and "dam" in Persian: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%D8%AF%D8%AF+%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%85   As you see, this famous poem of Hafiz is in the first link:   Wild Deer - آهوی وحشی   الا ای آهوی وحـشی کـجایی مرا با توسـت چـندین آشـنایی دو تنها و دو سرگردان دو بیکـس دد و دامت کمین از پیش و از پـس   Where are you O Wild Deer? I have known you for a while, here. Both loners, both lost, both forsaken The wild beast, for ambush, have all waken

Right now I know what you are talking about.
The only word that I heard is dad-manesh (wild) which we use it rarely.


Edited by Suren - 02-Jun-2008 at 20:03

Have you read it yourself Cyrus??
1, It mentions two womam immigrants during the Viking age (834AD) - 3300 years after the time the ancestors of Germanic peoples arrived to Scandinavia. And it clearly says they were immigrants!
2, Then it mentions the origin of Odin, a warrior who arrived to Scandinavia a long time ago - it is not clear whether he was one of the Germanic ancestors or an immigrant who gained respect. South of Caucasus (which comprises Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and part of Southern Russia, including the disputed territories of Abkhazia, Chechnya, South Ossetia and Nagorno-Karabakh) and north of Turkey roughly the same area that IEans are supposed to come from.

So, no, you haven't explained those two points. Please do so now, or in the six days.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri 1, How did Scythians (who didn't exist at the time) manage to get into Scandinavia and be ancestral to Germanic tribes??   Why should I post all things again?! I have posted several links about it, for example would you please read this one: http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/5471/2/

And how many times do I have to repeat Snorris is not credible considering the origin of the gods. Scholars are in agreement there is no basis for his stories, and archaeology agrees. I and other have repeated it at least half a dozen times but you refuse to see it.

And as for the woman: they imported a lot of women from all over the place, many Scandinavian and Slavic rulers in Russia or Poland had Scandinavian wives and vice versa. Nothing extraordinary with that.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 02-Jun-2008 at 21:44