Reality of aggressive nationalism in Chin

 

It's a sticky topic... how many posts are there in this forum?  We all will try our best, but expect some unpleasant situations... Always expcet worst scenerio...

 

Originally posted by Sonagi Quote me.  Where did I say that foreign intervention always or usually solves problems?    Your argument is not false but it is irrelevant.  You can use examples from other countries or regions if a commenter makes an always/never/only statement, such as "only Koreans" or "only in Korea" or "colonial powers always" "colonies never"  I have not made any generalization using such extremes.  I said earlier that Koreans were prone to blaming foreign countries for their problems and your posts have supported my claim. I never said that only Koreans do this, so examples of other countries are irrelevant. BTW, who elected that corrupt government?  And won't you have a big election this year?  Who will you blame if the next government is as corrupt and inept as the current administration, who was swept into power on an anti-American platform?  Koreans faulted the US for supporting the right-wing dictators, but now that you elect your own president and National Assembly members, you cannot blame foreign countries for the failings of governments elected by the people.  If Koreans don't like their government, then organize and make change happen.  You did it once in 1987.  You can do it again if you really want to and are willing to take risks.

 

Not fully agreed on your first paragraph, but point taken.

 

You are perfectly right. Our education system is making fellow Koreans extremely corrupted as well. I guess this explains why our government is full of weirdos... Our education is totally discouraging passionate learnings. We memorize and memorize, hoping that enough effort of memorizing would allow us to pass... and once we get into univeristy... we just don't care and go out for party. I'll be honest. Over half of our school would be going to tons of outside tutoring that costs rediculusly high... and if they have some extra time, they play online games, or worse... watch that dreadful, never ending drama (Though I heard that Korean drama are really popular and successful... not only in Korea, but in Japan, China and other nations as well.) No wonder the many Koreans can't defend their history in internet, and no wonder many foreigners see Koreans as unreasonable bastards... (No offense) I saw no point of getting tutor that is so inefficient and costly, so I quit. Best thing I ever did in my life...

 

Anyways, you surely got us. Our declining social stability, and perverted education system is ruining our society. Unless some kind of education reform is acted upon, which our government would not do because our parents do not understand why their kids can't succeed if they try...

 

I wish I could do something about it, but with me alone... the progress is, sad to say, little. I was lucky enough to have a teacher who actually knew what was going on in our nation. He got in so much trouble because he was claiming to "Bring Communist ideas...", you know, the classical blame that government and society use to oppress the intelligent people ever since the Joseon Dynasty...

 

Furthermore, I will be moving to Canada this coming summer... so that sucks. Once I have enough money, maybe I will take a teacher position in Korean schools... I know I can't do much, but I need to try...

 

I sound like a revolutionary rebels...

 

 

I am interested you call Korea your 2nd home yet even beyond this you seem to be biased against Korea[not including stoopid nationalists] that is however just a "vibe" I get from you. 

 

 

Originally posted by Sonagi The Korean crusades to change the name of the Sea of Japan and defend Dokto have no support outside Korea.  Nobody cares except Koreans and to some extent the Japanese and nobody is going to care.

 

Why should they? its a Korean-Japanese dispute When Russia has a dispute with Japan over the islands it seized toward the end of WW2 why would most Asians care? or Europeans? or Africans? or Latinos? etc. no one is going to care outside of Japanese and to an extent some Russians.

 

China keeps it on a leash? perhaps but Koreans were beaten at a ROK-PRC "Friendship" soccer match. I recently saw a clip where a mob of Chinese Youth were kicking a womens car as she was driving because it was a Japanese car. A guy I know who has gone been to China said Japanese cars in China get keyed on or other-wise damaged by again Chinese Youth. Im not dismissing Korean Nationalists either im embarrassed by often times Childish Nationalism commited by SOME South Koreans. Also  I think we can both agree Korean-Americans and Chinese-Americans also make things worse especially on the internet, And projects like NE project is going to piss some Koreans off and other Asians living around the Area. the PRC isn't an angel with its own historical distortions.

 

 

 Another point is as I understand it Ethnic Pride is becoming bigger in the PRC [I didn't say this people who visit China say this] It isn't going to promote Chinese Pride as other people will want to be included being "Chinese" is more of an idenity rather then a Ethnicity im sure you already know, as there very few "pure" Han Chinese.

 

 

And a preivous post about Korean being a Regional power and you claiming it basically wasn't going to be anything is a huge assumption and to be blunt [no offense to you] sounds ignorant. you are assuming Japan can afford to keep up its Right-wing Antics and with the world's lowest birth-rate and fastest aging society It's going to be a major power.

 

you are also assuming PRC does not collapse like the Soviet Union does and independent Countries [Tibet , inner Mongolia, Manchuria etc] break away not to mention China's Shortage of Women, massive MASSIVE pollution, Deserts Expanding, major Societal Issues, Chinese Workers now leaving by the millons from Factories due to dirt-poor wages and benefits you can't tell me the Chinese will be content with those kinds of wages they recieve now, Corrupt Goverment officals , corrupt Police Force, Poor Human rights the list goes on.

 

Can't Assume anything Songi. [though I know you already know that.]

deleted by author

 

 

that quote was what I was talking about.

Easternknight,

 

Not sure where those "anti-Korean" vibes are coming from, but every critical statement I've made in this forum has dealt with nationalism. 

 

several of your posts have gone out of Nationalism and simply said things along the lines of Koreans do this, as though your claims were saying all Koreans did that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you that nationalism in China is growing.   The difference is organized public expression.  Key scratches on Japanese cars don't make headlines, but anti-Japanese demonstrations gone out of control do.   Beijing caught some blowback after the agitators it bused in to throw rocks at the Japanese embassy decided to attack civilian targets.   Some Western Korea-watchers are deeply suspicious of the PRC's Northeast Project as a possible historical prelude to carving off a chunk of North Korea should it collapse.  I think their suspicions have merit.

 

your ignored my other points such as for example a Mob of Chinese youth attacking a Women's car just because it was a Japanese car. Also There is a massive difference of freedom of media in China and Korea just because there isn't an article or some silly Website doesn't mean it does not occur.

 

 

 

When you said,

 

 

Which comment/post were you referring to?

 

already been adressed.

 

RE:  Dokdo

 

Possession is nine-tenths of the law.  Korea occupies the rocks, has occupied them since the end of WWII, and will continue to occupy them for a long time.  Fishing rights are genuine concern, but conflicts over fishing rights aren't going be resolved by Dokdo postcards and t-shirts. 

 

Apparently VANK thinks everybody else should care about the Sea of Japan / East Sea dispute:  http://prkorea.com/textbook/sendinvoice01-1.htm

 

 

OK, other countries have post-cards and T-shirts and all sorts of other Childish things when there is a dispute over anything for example You can find endless amounts of Merchandise in both Greece and Turkey websites realting to control of Crypus. This isn't something unique to Korean Nationalists. It happens all over the world.

 

RE:  China's uncertain future.

 

After living in China four years, I have no worries about China's impending global hegemony.  I do not expect China to collapse or crumble into smaller states, but it will remain challenged by the serious internal problems you mentioned.

 

I think PRC will become a Superpower and eventually overtake America as a the world's domiant power too. But we don't know this as a fact theres not a huge amount of Media coverage over China. it could break up and other states attempt to break away and try to stay independent from the former PRC nothing is certain.

 

 

 

 

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This has nothing to do with this topic its for Wikipedia.

 

 

A combination of bad weather and flawed strategy meant Tang's first attempts under the personal leadership of [[Emperor Gaozu of Tang|Emperor Gaozu]] proved inconclusive and Goguryeo was able to repel thousands of Tang troops at its western boundary.  In [[642]], [[Yeon Gaesomun]] killed [[Yeongnyu of Goguryeo|King Yeongnyu]] and seized military control over the country.

Later in [[Emperor Taizong of Tang|Taizong]] reign, he also began campaigns against the Korean kingdom of [[Goguryeo]]<ref>Details of the battles are in the primary source-ZiZhi Tojian</ref>, much to the opposition of many advisors. In [[645]], A war broke out. Taizong sent an army of 300,000 troops and 10,000 horses <ref>Source:New Tang Book or Xin Tang Su</ref>, but they were eventually forced to withdraw because of the harsh winter and with Korean army approaching from both sides with losses of about 10,000 soldiers and 7000-8000 horses. Koreans were traditionally known to be exceptionally skilled archers and were called by Chinese as [[Dongyi]] or Eastern Bowmen. In the beginning, Taizong's noted army enabled him to conquer a number of border city fortresses of Goguryo(요동성,백암성,개모성,비사성 함락). The Tang army in several cases defeated the Korean forces on open battlefields. Outside the Ansi Fort, [[Go Yeonshu]] and [[Go Hyezin]] had mobilized 150,000 troops, though it proved to be fruitless. After tatics by Taizong with [[Li Shiji]] as bait and [[hangsun Wuji]] with 200,000 coming from behind, the Korean generals were confused and defeated, the losses were 20,000 for the Koreans and 36,000 captured.(주필산 전투) This battle was won with  300,000 Tang troops in comparison to 150,000 Korean troops. The Tang army had won a significant victory over Goguryeo.

However, forts would be the one issue that the Tang Taizong couldn't solve, most particularly [[Ansi castle]] itself. Ansi Castle was under siege by the Tang army. However Tang was not able to conquer Ansi Castle. After a protracted siege, Taizong ordered the construction of a large seige ramp. However the seige ramp collapsed, at the same time commander [[Yang Manchun]](It should be noted that Yang was the only commander to defeat Yeon on the battlefield, as Yeon's earlier efforts to take the Ansi Fortress during the civil war that took place after Yeon's coup was unsuccessful.) mobilized the remaining Goguryeoan troops to defeat the Tang army. In the end, the Tang army retreated with heavy losses (a large number of the 100,000-200,000 deaths of Tang's army came from this siege). Taizong was defeated by not being able to take down Ansi.(안시성 전투) and the military  commander [[Yeon Gaesomun]] also defeated the Tang army. As a result Goguryeo was able to repel the attack and Taizong, caught between Yang's forces in the front and Yeon's counter-attacking forces closing in behind him--as well as suffering from the harsh Manchurian winter was forced to flee back to China. With Yeon in close pursuit, Taizong's desperate, fleeing forces were decimated by Yeon, and Taizong himself barely escaped with his life. After Taizong death in 649, the Tang army again sent the army to conquer Gorguryeo in 661 and 662, but while Yeon Gaesomun was alive, Tang was not able to conquer the Goguryeo kingdom.

After Taizong's death in 649, the conquest of Goguryeo and the personal rivalry with Yeon became an obsession with Taizong's  son [[Emperor Gaozong of Tang|Gaozong]]. He invaded Goguryeo numerous times but Yeon turned the Tang back every time--perhaps most notably during Yeon's celebrated annihilation of the Tang forces in 662 at the [[Sasu River]] (蛇水) where the invading general and all 13 of his sons were killed in the battle. Yeon's victory in Sasu is today considered one of the two or three greatest military victories in Korean history.