Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
JasSum
Knight
Joined: 26-Jan-2005
Location: Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Is Ancient Greece a Western Civilization? Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 07:47 |
Interesting, ideed.
That proves that a lot of "facts" that are used today are just bad interpretations of the real facts.
|
|
Beylerbeyi
Chieftain
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Cuba
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1355
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 12:56 |
well there will be at least one name shows their religions. |
No, there are many muslims in Turkey without traditional muslim names. But you seem to be immune to truth.
Also, there are many Turkish muslims called Iskender. Ottoman historians believed that Alexander was a 'believer'. They held that 4 people invaded the whole world in the past and 2 were believers, and 2 were non-believers. The believers were Solomon (I think) and Alexander, and the others were Nebuchadnezzar and Sargon (I am not sure about this one).
|
|
azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer
Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 21:55 |
it is my first time to know that there is muslims named Iskander.
anyway about the 4 people who held or ruled the world, it is not taken as fact it is more like saying, and they didnt mention Alexander as one of them they mentioned Du AL-Qarnyn and Prophet Solomon as the Good once and Nebuchadnezzar and Namrod as the Bad once.
as i said earlier it is a mix up between Du AL-Qarnyn and Alexander the great becouse of the "Horns".
|
|
|
Menippos
Chieftain
Joined: 24-May-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1134
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-May-2005 at 11:26 |
Although some might disagree, I believe that we cannot characterise the
Greek civilisation as a Western civilisation for the mere fact that the
Greek civilisation existed long before any such definition arose.
But I will put something else on the table. Let us look at the spatial
definition of Western and Eastern civilisations. If Europe etc lie on
the west side and Asia lies due east, what is in the middle? Answer:
Greece. So, I would comfortably assert that the Greek civilisation was
the one that defined both, by merely lyiong in the middle and defining
east and west. One could argue that Greek civilisation affected both
sides, and that is most probably the case indeed.
Now, all of what I have said is only speculation and I do not expect
anyone to take it for face value, but I think it might give a little
different perspective to our nice little chat here.
|
CARRY NOTHING
|
|
Togodumnus
Immortal Guard
Joined: 17-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 14:49 |
Hey,Greece is smack dab in the center of it all.The stepping stone
between East and West.They were better at mixing the hodgepodge of East
and West simply by virtue of their location.Did a good job too!Ane I
believe Hellenic culture is or has been more influential in the East
than would be admitted by some.
|
History is simply the record of mankinds repeated mistakes...and fruitless efforts at redemption.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 18:07 |
Du Al-Karneyn (as we say Zulkarneyn) is morely like a mythic figure in Kur'an than a prophet. But I think his nickname was to describe a true historical person.
We know that Zulkarneyn has dealed with Ya-Juj and Ma-Juj (Gog and Ma-Gog), and we also know that he imprisoned them by a metal fort, wall, mountains. Gog magog are said to have Asiatic features, and that story doesnt fit the stories of Alexander or Cyrus at all. So who he was is not that clear at all.
About the original discussion, I dont think Ancient Greek civilization beloged to the middle of east and west. There wasnt any west one at all before Greeks. In fact, all primary, earlier civilizations belonged to middle east, Lands from Eastern Mediterranean to Indus river in the east (of course without Chinese civ.). Because Greek civilization inherited its elements from middle East, Aegean sea people and ancient Anatolians (Etruscans), they belonged to middle East. The western civilization was also created by the middle Eastern influences.
Nebuchadnezzar and Namrod as the Bad once. |
Nabucadnezzar was the bad one, yes, but I've a question, is he also mentioned as the bad one in Old Testament?
|
|
Anonym
Immortal Guard
Joined: 28-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Jul-2005 at 22:14 |
let's begin with definitions. The west is stylized as
- non-theocratic
- democratic
- individualistic
- georgraphically west of the black sea (with the oddities of the baltics russia et al)
- liberal in its tolerances
- and representated first in the traditions of ancient greece.
by definition ancient greece is western as it forms part of the western narrative. as is christianity but not necessarily judaism. as is capitalism and its cousin socialism.
Frankly, I don't even understand the question.
|
|
Anonym
Immortal Guard
Joined: 28-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Jul-2005 at 22:17 |
Originally posted by Menippos
Although some might disagree, I believe that we cannot characterise the Greek civilisation as a Western civilisation for the mere fact that the Greek civilisation existed long before any such definition arose. |
the point is not what definitions existed at the time but what definition is now as we use it today. frankly, as I stated earlier, the question itself is rather jejeune.
|
|
Istor the Macedonian
Knight
Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 68
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 19:00 |
Greeks inherited cutlural elements from the peoples around, including dark, for sure.
But the step forward they did during the ancient and Byzantine times was enormous. The World was much different (and beter) after Greek intervention.
We have already acculturated Romans and Slavs. We have failed so far to acculturate Turks. For obvious reasons.
***edited for irrelevance & provocation***
Istor Ethnic Macedonians were always Greeks.
Edited by Yiannis
|
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek!
|
|