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Seljuk Ottoman Shock Cavalry?

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BigL View Drop Down
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Seljuk Ottoman Shock Cavalry?
    Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 03:49
Mongols won every battle with a famous Charge,they had Heavy armoured cavalry with long lances which could finish off an enemy once their horse archers had harrasssed the enemy.
 
But when reading about Seljuk and Otttoman turks they never seem to finish off the enemy.
 

It would seem, then, that these tactics left nothing to be desired;taking a closer look, however, one may discover weaknesses which,though covered up by the strong points, eventually spelled catastrophe. First of all, the combat formation did not have a closed, massive,thrusting nucleus capable of shock attacks, like that of the armoredknights in European armies. The light cavalry was not fit for shock;it could do no more than harass, tire out, and finally disperse theenemy on the verge of disintegration. A closed attack could havebeen the task of the janissaries, but they were reserved for defense.Yet the defensive attitude of the janissaries was no solution to thedefense of the army as a whole either, because the light cavalry wasby its very nature entirely useless for defense. To use a simile, theOttoman combat formation was like a castle where the janissariesrepresented the citadel that makes a last stand possible, but whichhas no bastions, curtines, or forward positions. The Ottoman troopswere never able to withstand the assault of the armored knights.But, since the western cavalry was unable to carry out any othermaneuver, they could not exploit their initial success in battle. Howeffective the assault of the Christian cavalry was and how defenseless the Ottoman army facing it becomes obvious not only fromthe course of specific battles, as reconstructed from the sources, butalso from the candid admissions of Turkish historians regarding thefear which seized the Ottoman troops in the face of the massive cavalry assault. [82] Ottoman military leaders, recognizing the dangerof the assaults by armored knights, attempted to break up the solidranks of the Christian forces. One means employed was the archercavalry, which sent a shower of arrows on the enemy from all sides.Another, even more effective device was suddenly to open up theranks, so that the shock assault would hit nothing but air. [83]

The balance was somewhat restored when with the passing offeudalism the \Western armored cavalry began to decline and theknights could not well withstand the fire of the janissaries who, inthe meantime, had acquired muskets. But then, the fighting potential of the timariot sipahis and their ability for maneuvers derivingfrom nomadic tactics and requiring quick, precise execution, greatdiscipline, and thorough training, decreased as well. Mercenarytroops might have offered an alternative, as they had in Europewhere they became a concomitant of the new tactics that developed in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. [84] There are indications thatthe Ottoman leaders were well aware of their army's tactical inferiority, and this was probably the explanation for the enormous increase in the number of professional soldiers in the seventeenthcentury. [85] Yet this could only be a partial solution as long as thetimariots remained a substantial proportion of the military setupwhile, in the rest of Europe, the role and significance of the feudalforces dwindled drastically after the evolution of a standing army ofregular soldiers. But social and political considerations seem to haveprecluded a thorough reform abolition of the timar system. [86]

The great transformations that changed military art in earlymodern Europe did not affect Ottoman tactics and military organization. The synchronization of the various services and the mutuallycomplementing utilization of shock and firepower, typical for thisrevolution, were never assimilated by the Ottoman army. Theyonly avoided catastrophe because of the strategic deadlock whichcharacterized the wars between Austria and the Ottoman Empireafter the fall of Hungary, when no more pitched battles were fought.

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the_oz View Drop Down
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  Quote the_oz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 08:52
I didnt know that Janissaires were defensive units because in Ottoman they were leaving the city to timarli sipahis when the sultan decides to launch an attack or conquer a city.Janissaires always been used at attacks.When Ottoman started to falling and needed to defence Janissaires have been disbanded.
we shouldnt forget importance of artillery in the Ottoman army.In Seljuks hit and run tactics were very important against heavy armored christian troops.
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  Quote Turk Nomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 10:23
Please don't forget mongol army was also Turkic Bigl =)
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 14:09
Please site the source of the copy or reproduction of the text BigL, as I think it to be one.

Thanks,
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 20:23

Yes janniseries were used to attack cities because there infantry...

mongols are turkic but there tactics differ from Seljuks or ottomans or Do they? thats the point im trying to ask..
 
Is the link i only wanted to select this part to quote becuase there is alot written,.Shocked


Edited by BigL - 30-Sep-2006 at 20:25
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