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Vermont separatism?

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flyingzone View Drop Down
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vermont separatism?
    Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 19:57

I came across the following article in today's Montreal Gazette. I find it kind of amusing and I just wanted to share with you. (Maybe this thread should belong to the Tavern?)

Dream State: a Free Vermont
 
Elizabeth Mehren, Los Angeles Times
 
Windsor, VT. - This is prime country-fair season, when villgages roll out moon-sized pumpkins, maple-flavoured everything and, here at Heritage Days, a manifesto on why Vermont should secede from the United States.
 
At a card table outside the tavern where Vermont first declared its independence in 1777, delegates from the Second Vermont Republic - also known as the secessionists - looked just as comfortable one recent Sunday as the vendors selling goat's milk soap.
 
The "Free Vermont" flag fluttered, green-and-white stripes with white stars sprinkled on a field of blue, as fairgoers stopped to discuss whether their state should pull out of the union.
 
"It's this cool revolutionary thing," said Nicole Fusca, 21, who grew up in this southern Vermont hamlet. "But there is no basis to it. It's soemthing I can't take seriously. I'll joke about it, but it willl never happen."
 
But Thomas Naylor - businessman, economics professor; author and Mississippi native - believes otherwise. "It's not a question of 'if,' he said. "The question is: When?"
 
Although the movement for Vermont secession that Naylor helped launch nearly three years ago is little more than an intellectual exercise, it is entirely earnest.
 
Its members argue that the U.S. government has lost its concern for individual citizens and small communities.
 
They worry about global warming, the U.S. military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, unfair trade practices and the "tyranny of multinational corporations."
 
At a presentation for Vermont legislators months ago, Naylor said: "Do you go down with the Titanic, or do you consider other options while there are still other options on the table?"
 
State Representative Geroge Cross, a Democratic from the town of Winooski, responded: "Vermont should secede. I don,t think it is probably a practical thing to do. But cerainly there are principalities in the world that are a whole lot smaller than Vermont."
 
The 150 or so members of the Second Vermont Republic envision a country much like Switzerland, neutral and economically independent.
 
They argue their cause at public gatherings and private events. Supporters march in parades and egage in political theatre, sometimes reliving the early days when vermont was its own republic.
 
Naylor was teaching at Duke University when he published his first article advocating Vermont,s secession in 1990. Two years later, while researching a book called The Search for Meaning, he and his family spent time travelling in tiny Alpine villages in Austria and northern Italy.
 
When his wife suggested that they find "an American proxy for an Alpine village," Naylor said, the family moved to Charlotte, Vt., on the banks of Lake Champlain.
 
With co-author William Willimon, Naylor set to work on Downsizing the U.S.A., a book that called for the peaceful dissolution of the United States. Vermont would lead the way.
 
The book went nowhere.
 
But in secession, Naylor had found his mission. Kindred political souls - and in Vermont, many are willing to entertain ideas tha might be considered eccentric elsewhere - gravitated to the Second Vermont Revolution.
 
"This really is a good-nature cult," said John McClaughry, head of a nonpartisan think tank in Vermont called the Ethan Allen Institute. "Intellectually, they've go some horsepower. But mostly this is the whole left-wing litany, seen through an interesting prism."
 
Secession said McClaughry, "is not going to happen, and no one believes it is going to happen. We are not going to isolate ourselves into a little cocoon where we all milk goats and a windmill runs whatever electricity appliances we are permitted to have. Being a 10th-generation American, I really don't want to let go."
 
Naylor, 70, concedes that the notion of Vermont striking out on its own may seem outlandish. "Part of why we are so optimistic is the absurditiy of it all," he said.
 
"What could be more absurd than tiny Vermont taking on the empire?"
 
Still, his fellow believers proceed with determination, lobbying for a special legislative secession meeting to debate the issue.
 
One obstacle the group acknowledges is the widely held belief that states cannot secede. After all, look happened to the South in the Civil War.
 
"Lincoln persuaded the public that secession was unconstitutional and immoral," Naylor said.
 
"It's one of the few things that the left and right agree on. We say it's constitutional - an dultimatley it is a question of political wil: the will of the people of Vermont vs. the will of the government to stop us."
 
####################################
 
What do you think, guys?
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Jay. View Drop Down
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  Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 20:33
Hah. No chance in hell will the Bush Administration let this happen, let alone the United States. Maybe the Quebec of the United States? Why not...

Take a look at this website. I beleive it's their 'official site': http://www.vermontrepublic.org/


Edited by Jay. - 25-Sep-2006 at 20:33
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 20:36

Thanks for the website, Jay.

I've heard of Texan, Californian, and of course Hawaiian separatism. But I have never heard of Vermont separatism. That's why I found the article amusing. But of course I won't take it seriously.

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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 18:11

I've heard of Texan, Californian, and of course Hawaiian separatism. But I have never heard of Vermont separatism. That's why I found the article amusing. But of course I won't take it seriously.

 
Don't forget the Alaskan Independance Party: http://www.akip.org/
 
For one I hope that someday they do secede the US is far too big to solve local issues. I think that the US should splinter into many different nations closely allied to one another, more like an American EU, that the USSR that we are currently in.
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 08:12
well california is large enough to go it alone, and hawai probably shouldnt be there in the firts place, maybe a de-evolution would be good.


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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 11:12

Janus, the federal system in the United States allows for a great autonomy in state-scale policies.

At the moment, those separists will not gain any ground because the United States still a country of high wellfare, relatively good judicial system, and also relatively low rate of corruption especially in domestic issues. Also the mobility of Americans makes it harder to seperate on ideological foundations. I can at least say, very very few states that can benifit from secession. Maybe Alaska with all its oil natural sources. Maybe.



Edited by ok ge - 29-Sep-2006 at 11:13
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 22:42
I do not see any seperation from the USA in the forseable future. In fact I think the USA will expand further. After the death of Fidel, Cuba may in fact may become the next state in the Union. 
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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 13:15
Party in Cuba baby! Hellz yes~!
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 19:16

Janus, the federal system in the United States allows for a great autonomy in state-scale policies.

 
You would think that based on what is contained in things like the constitution but in actuality the federal government since the civil-war has been hijacking states-rights. Like for instance it should be up to the individual states to legalize marijuana, but the federal government has stated that if you legalize marijuana then you won't receive any highway funding, so that means that states economies would suffer so effectively the federal government holds the states hostage.
 
At the moment, those separists will not gain any ground because the United States still a country of high wellfare, relatively good judicial system, and also relatively low rate of corruption especially in domestic issues.
 
I agree with you on that, I'm a separatist on principle not because of any actual belief that such a state would be better off without the US.
 
Also the mobility of Americans makes it harder to seperate on ideological foundations.
 
Actually Americans as a rule tend to be highly regionalized. They tend to support the area where they grew up, or have since moved too. Therefore, there is a more 'regional nationalist' element in american thought rather than an 'american nationalist' element.
 
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 20:31
Originally posted by bg_turk

I do not see any seperation from the USA in the forseable future. In fact I think the USA will expand further. After the death of Fidel, Cuba may in fact may become the next state in the Union. 
 
I agree, maybe not the Cuba part though.  I've always wondered what would happen though if Quebec seceded from Canada, I wonder if losing such a large piece of their country might not make Alberta or something join the USA and Newfoundland rejoin the UK.  It would be wild to see.


Edited by Genghis - 30-Sep-2006 at 21:01
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  Quote Peter III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 21:05
At the moment, those separists will not gain any ground because the United States still a country of high wellfare, relatively good judicial system, and also relatively low rate of corruption especially in domestic issues.
 
Well so far the only groups of people that actully want to seperate from the U.S. government are weird, crazy people that are either too far left, right or something else(i.e. religious fundamentalist crackpots). With that being said, I hope there aren't any seperatists here...
 
One more thing, anyone remember the whole Conch Republic thing? Those people were crazy. I guess thats what happens when you live in the Key West too long.


Edited by Peter III - 30-Sep-2006 at 21:11
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 01:06
It always amazes me how well US pop culture propogates the ideology of the government so well, projecting America as a land of one people with common values and a united history. I think this is a result of the need to be politically correct in the American media, and also the patriotic desire of media producers to reinforce the idea of a united nation.
 
The US cultural juggernaught is extremely strong, only massive disatisfaction with material living standards, political weakness and regional divergence of values and ideologies could cause a serious seccession attempt.
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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 02:56

I see what you mean Janus.

I thought the Conch Republic thing is extremely amuzing. Now the story says they were on smoking something too when they proclaimed the republic before they were beaten in days?

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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 09:32
With that being said, I hope there aren't any seperatists here...
 
Well.......
I'm a separatist on principle ...
--------------------------------------------
I see what you mean Janus.
 
Yeah as Constantine points out America only appears to be a united cultural front. And also like Constantine I blame the media for giving false impressions. I still think the US should divide into many different city-states, and all inter-state conflicts should be solved with football.*
 
*The real kind not that crap you have over in europe.* (Waits to be flamed.)Wink
 
**No really I like soccer.
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