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mongke
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Topic: Chingghis Khans greatest failure Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 15:02 |
What do you think his greatest failure was?
I think is the fact that he did not ensure orderly
succession since he ordered that Kuriltai be held
with all his sons to appoint the next leader.
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Slickmeister
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Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 16:26 |
Genghis Khan was perhaps the greatest leader of all time. Because of this, it is hard to see any actual failures he committed. I would best guess that his biggest failure was in 1227 when he fell off his horse that led to his death.
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capcartoonist
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 15:47 |
Genghiz did ensure an orderly succession, or so he thought, by naming Ougudei in his will. He knew Joti would not be accepted because of his questionable bloodline. And Jagatai and Tuli were both too strong-willed to accept each other, but they were both devoted to Ougudei.
The reason the transition was so difficult after Genghiz died was because Ougudei refused to be named Khan. It wasn't until Jagatai and Tuli kowtowed to Genghiz that Ougudei was forced to accept the throne.
The system broke down following Kuyuk's death. The House of Tuli, supported by Batu of the House of Joti, staged an electorial coup because Kuyuk's heir was only 13 years old. The House of Ougudei and the House of Jagatai tried to stage a military coup and were caught out. The Mongol empire splintered at this point.
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capcartoonist
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 15:48 |
Oh, yes: Genghiz's greatest failure. Falling off his horse would be my choice, too.
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Cap
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mongke
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 23:07 |
He did name an immediate succesor but in the long run it was trouble by requiring a kuriltai every time to install a great khan.
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coolstorm
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Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 08:47 |
the decline of the mongol empire hadn't started until half a century after genghis died.
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J.M.Finegold
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Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 10:41 |
His greatest failure was the complete destruction of the Iranian
irrigation system - perhaps, had he been a bit more merciful we
wouldn't have an expansive wasteland in Iran now.
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Temujin
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Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 12:52 |
iranian? you mean transoxanian, and actually we can't be sure if it was done by Temujin or Timur. secondly, he was a nomad, it was only natural to do so, irrigated terrain is hostile to the nomad lifestyle.
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mongke
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Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 17:46 |
Let me restate what I think his failure is, not setting up a system by which an orderly succession could be made. Now he did designate his immediate succesor but after him what? By requiring the Kuriltai meet (with the members that have to be present practically all the big shots in his mongol state) in the long run it let to confused succession and constant bickering.
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Chono
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Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 04:15 |
Only his own children were supposed to have a place at Kuriltai, but they became so numerous that the Kuriltai stopped functioning normally.
Chinggis never went to Iran.
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mongke
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Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 13:55 |
That's why he failed he didn't take into account that after several generations this was going to happen. The kuriltai should have been just to deal with the affairs of the state the succession issue should have been dealt with some other manner.
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J.M.Finegold
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Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 23:52 |
Originally posted by Temujin
iranian? you mean transoxanian, and actually we
can't be sure if it was done by Temujin or Timur. secondly, he was a
nomad, it was only natural to do so, irrigated terrain is hostile
to the nomad lifestyle. |
Well, the system was originally employed by the Medes of Iran, so I call it the Iranian Irrigation system.
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mongke
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Posted: 22-Dec-2004 at 18:07 |
Originally posted by DuxPimpJuice
His greatest failure was the complete destruction of the Iranian
irrigation system - perhaps, had he been a bit more merciful we
wouldn't have an expansive wasteland in Iran now.
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Yeah, but they didn't touch your ski resorts....oh wait! Mongols don't ski!
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Chono
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Posted: 27-Dec-2004 at 09:49 |
OH YES WE DO. But not alpine.
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mongke
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Posted: 28-Dec-2004 at 09:07 |
Originally posted by Chono
OH YES WE DO. But not alpine. |
Horse skis??? News to me.
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chonos
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Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 02:50 |
how could falling off a horse be a major failure, he was an aging old man 60 some years, it's hard at this age to ride a horse for anybody
Edited by chonos
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cliveersknell
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Posted: 18-Dec-2005 at 00:20 |
I think his biggest mistake was the hidden conflict between him and his eldest son Jochi. CK continued to have strong
suspicions about his eldest son's origins.
This eventually sowed the seeds for future conflict between
the golden horde and the other khanates.
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Genghis
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Posted: 18-Dec-2005 at 00:30 |
I think Genghis would agree with me that his biggest failure was not conquering the entire world.
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Guests
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Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 17:23 |
Fortune favours the bold
and spares the little..
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Jamukha
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Posted: 21-Jan-2006 at 14:19 |
His greatest failure was that he lost his first
or initial battle with jamukha (after they went there separate ways). However, this
initial failure did lead to much success, since he took this failure and
absorbed many positive lessons through it, such as the training of soldiers, cavalry,
and the conscious vow not to fail again, which he clearly fulfilled.
The only reason that I believe this is his greatest failure is due to reality
that it seems like his only official failure in battle, since after that nor
did he loose a battle or get repelled in his conquest to conquer the world.
Another mistake that might be considered here is his decision to kill his half
brother when bullied for a carcass. Although I understand he had to show him a
lesson I still fail to comprehend if there was really any benefit for him,
since he killed one of his own at a time when that was all he had in this
world. Also he decided to take this bold reaction despite the dissatisfaction
of hoelun who clearly told him to refrain from any action.
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