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Dream208 View Drop Down
Pretorian
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Posts: 176 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: World Powers (millitary)
    Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 01:09

China vs Japan full out war began at 1937. The US direct involvement at 1941.

Russia was unified, China was still recovering my civil war and warlordism.
 
 
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Posts: 57 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 06:14
Originally posted by Dream208

China vs Japan full out war began at 1937. The US direct involvement at 1941.

Russia was unified, China was still recovering my civil war and warlordism.
 
 
 
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Posts: 106 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 15:10
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

spain's military can kick anybody's ass


if spain wanted to, it can kick turkey's butt!


who are you to talk like this, Trkish millitary will make pieces of spain.


Edited by omergun - 02-Oct-2006 at 15:25
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Posts: 106 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 15:20
Originally posted by perikles

USA is out of comparison. I can't believe that Turkey is above of UK in military power. The numbers are shown a superiority(I doudbt if the numbers we saw are for real)!!
But in the war many other things are crucial. Who is the attacker, what are the level of training of the amries, what are the strategy, the diplomacy, the allies but first of all is the Economy. Let's say that Turkey starts a war with Sysria. How long it is going to last. 1 week most. Turkey has not the economic power to last more. None in the region, except Israel, can do that. The fuels Turkey has are lasting for 10 days. Greece has the same problem. All the countries in the region. In mediteranean Israel, Italy and Spain are considered super powers.


You again? What do you have against Trkiye. You just cant stand we are one of the strongest countries in the world. Do I have to answer you again?

Didnt i made it clear in the other topic. Ill make a quote of my message.

I dont know who wrote this, you are right that a country's military strength depends not only on the weapons it possess but also in its military character and willingness to fight till the end, but I can easily say that Trks are the number one in the world with military character and willingness to fight to the end. Anyone who knows Trkish history knows this fact. Ask all the generals in the world, they would all agree even if they are haters.

Coming to the main subject, again sorry i couldnt read all posts. Trkiye is definetely the strongest Muslim country at present. I dont want to deep in weapons, nuke etc., because in this modern time every country is able to create every kind of chemical weapons. You could easily copy another countries teqnology, weapon etc., so weapons are not the first priority which desides who is the strongest in the world. Even if you have developped a great nuke, you can only use a part of it, unless you want to destroy the whole world within your own country.

Iran is also a strong Muslim country. Based on recently news people say Iran is developping great nukes. We have to know that every country has his secrets, not every country tells their chemical researches, so we normal people could not know what level each countries nuke is.
Almost 50 procent of the population of Iran are Trks. So in a war against Trkiye this will be a big problem. So Iran is definitely not stronger than Trkiye.

One thing most people also dont know that there are several Trkish Republics like Azerbaycan, NorthernTrkishCyprus, Kazakistan, Ozbekistan, Trkmenistan and Kirgizistan. And there are lots of autonomous Trkish Republics. In circumstances of war all these Republics will be one force.

The most important fact about Trks is their proud, love and bravery for their country which has no other example in the world. Most armies problems are that they couldnot force the whole population to fight for their country. If there is a war 100 procent of the Trkish population will fight, women, children included, they will all fight till the end. There is no other example of this in the world.

Finally i have to say that Trkiye is not only the strongest Muslim country but also one of the strongest in the world. The only weakness of Trkiye is that they dont have trustable allies, which most countries all have. Economy and outside politics which are positive in the present are also a big factors. Why do you think Trkiye still isnt in the European Union, they are afraid us, that we will improve the factors i just wrote.
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Posts: 1028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 16:53

The 'turkish' republics, that are a great hit currently in Turkey it seems, are a myth of Panturkists. Even though it is true that many central Asian republics have a cultural relation with Turkey in that they are part of the same linguistic group, still political and economical interests, who moe this world, do not coincide.

Also, something that many in my country also fail to see, is that there are no special abilities in nations, that make them better or worse soldiers. It is only the training and the ideology that make soldiers better. You seem to think that turks are the most devoted to their country, but I assure you, in Greece we are quite nationalist too. If you ever be in a war with Greece I believe that apparently you all (turks) will be unpleasantly surprised by the fact that the Greeks are not the cowards that seek only their luxury, that you have been told they are.
And playing a little with your game, I find it amusing that the turks are so proud and sure of their fighting qualities, when in the records of the Cyrpus war (the most recent), the comments I've seen for the turkish soldiers were bad. The turkish soldier was clumsy and afraid, and whenever he fought without armour support, his performance was very poor.
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Posts: 248 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 19:08
Originally posted by omergun

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

spain's military can kick anybody's ass


if spain wanted to, it can kick turkey's butt!


who are you to talk like this, Trkish millitary will make pieces of spain.


The sinews of war are infinite money.
I don't remember who said that but he was absolutely right.
The economy of Spain cannot be compared to the crumbling economy of Turkey.Turkey's economy would collapse after a week of fighting.
Turkey cannot construct a single weapon.You spend fortunes to buy weapons just as we do(Greece).On the contrary,Spain has a weapon industry.They possess the knowledge and technology to construct the weapons they need.
Spain is by no means comparable to turkey i think.
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Posts: 106 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 19:37
Originally posted by xristar

The 'turkish' republics, that are a great hit currently in Turkey it seems, are a myth of Panturkists. Even though it is true that many central Asian republics have a cultural relation with Turkey in that they are part of the same linguistic group, still political and economical interests, who moe this world, do not coincide.

Also, something that many in my country also fail to see, is that there are no special abilities in nations, that make them better or worse soldiers. It is only the training and the ideology that make soldiers better. You seem to think that turks are the most devoted to their country, but I assure you, in Greece we are quite nationalist too. If you ever be in a war with Greece I believe that apparently you all (turks) will be unpleasantly surprised by the fact that the Greeks are not the cowards that seek only their luxury, that you have been told they are.
And playing a little with your game, I find it amusing that the turks are so proud and sure of their fighting qualities, when in the records of the Cyrpus war (the most recent), the comments I've seen for the turkish soldiers were bad. The turkish soldier was clumsy and afraid, and whenever he fought without armour support, his performance was very poor.
Cheers.


If you ever be in a war with Greece...
I think close history already shows what would happen.

when in the records of the Cyrpus war (the most recent), the comments I've seen for the turkish soldiers were bad. The turkish soldier was clumsy and afraid, and whenever he fought without armour support, his performance was very poor.
Its nonsense and total bull, that Trkish soldair were like you described in the Cyprus war. Let me tell shortly the history of Cyprus and the Cyprus war. The Osmanli Empire conquered Cyprus in 1571. In a lost battle Cyprus came in the hands of england in 1878. In 1950 there Cyprus became independend, england gave the right of 70 %(why do you think) of the government to the greeks, and 30% to The Trks. So Cyprus was in the hand of greeks. When time was passing the greeks couldnt handle the fact that Trks were also(even if minority) a part of the government of Cyprus. They started making racist movements, and in years they were planning a massacre on The Trks. In order to complete enosis(greek), eoka terrorists and greek soldair were starting with the acritas plan. Starting in 25 december 1963, they killed thousands of innocent Trkish  children, woman and old people. Now the whole government was in the hand of greeks. In 1967 the greek army tried to attack Geitkale-Boğazii, but retreated because they were afraid of army of Trkiye.
At this moment Trkiye attacked the greek-english Cyprus in 1974.  On July 15, 1974 the Greek Nikos Sampson initiated a military coup on Cyprus and Archbishop Makarios was forced to abdicate his position as president. This event and an escalation of attacks on the Trkish minority caused great concern in Trkiye.
By the 16th Trkish military forces were put on high alert and several units went ahead with their wartime deployments. Light T-37C FAC and attack aircraft of the 122. Filo pilot training squadron at igli were dispersed to umaovasi south of Izmir. The all-weather interceptor 142. Filo at Mrted went to Balikesir. The F-5A daylight interceptor unit, 152. Filo, dispersed from Merzifon to Yenisehir. The 181. Attack Filo with F-100Cs and Ds was flown from Diyarbakir to Antalya and its co-located reconnaissance 184. Reconnaissance Filo was sent to Inirlik. 182. Filo with F-102As went from Mrted to Eskisehir whereas the F-104G unit, 191. Filo was redeployed from Balikesir to Mrted. The important sea surveillance unit, 301. Filo with S-2Es at Bandirma, was sent south to Antalya. At the same time mobile radar units were placed on the southern coast of Trkiye, opposite Cyprus.
After hectic, but futile negotiations, where Britain failed to assert for a return to a normal situation on Cyprus, war operations were started by Trkiye on July 20th, in order to protect the Trkish population. The actual war operations, which followed plans already prepared in 1960 when the Trkish population on Cyprus was threatened, were implemented in two stages. The first from July 20th until 1700 hours on the 22nd when the northern outskirts of Nicosia were taken, and with only defensive and transport air operations performed on the 23rd. The second stage which lasted from August 14th until an armistice was affected at 1900 hours on the 16th, resulted in the Trkish Army seizing Farmagusta. On July 20th at 0449 hours a RF-84F reconnaissance aircraft was launched from the Inirlik Air Base as the first action. The assault on the island itself was planned for 0600 on the 20th, with an airborne assault at Gnyeli (10 km NW of Nicosia) by 19 C-47s and at Kirni by six C-130s and eleven C-160Ds. All went well, but three aircraft were hit by anti-aircraft fire. A C-130 and a C-160 only sustained light damage, whereas C-47 no.6035 caught fire and only barely made an emergency landing near Silifke on the Trkish mainland. Meanwhile commando soldiers and Navy Seals secured the coastal road and initiated the seaborne landing at Karaolanolu 6 miles west of Kyrenia (Girne). A large force of 72 transport helicopters of various types of UH-1s from all Trkish forces had been put under command of the 2nd Armys helicopter Regiment. This force assembled at a temporary operating area near Tasuu, at the southern most point at the mainland Trkiye. From here a combined assault into the areas taken by the airborne troops started at 0707 hours. Ten helicopters were damaged by ground fire as they approached in the perfect V- formation. Later in the day tactics were changed into sudden low level approaches and only two more helicopters received hits. After intensive attacks from the air a second wave of airborne drops was affected by one C-47, 12 C-160s and six C-130s at 1255 and a third wave consisting of six C-160s and three C-130s just before sunset. These last two waves did not take any anti-aircraft fire. Air operations terminated at 2115 hours on the first day after 6000 troops had been put ashore and a bridgehead secured.irst day of operations included 117 ground attacks, 64 airborne assaults, 18 reconnaissance missions and eight air defence sorties. Air Force losses were one F-100D (55-3756) of 171.Filo, one F-100C (54-2042) of 132.Filo, one RF-84F of 184.Filo and the one C-47 (6035) making a crash landing. The only Air Force aircrew fatality was 1.Lt. Ilker Karter of the 184. Filo, the pilot of the RF-84F. Twelve Army helicopters received light damage and a Do.28D on a clandestine mission crashed with all its occupants being killed. July 21.Renewed operations were launched at 0550 hours to attack reported Cyprus troops massing for attack. Included in the attack were Super Sabres from 131, 132, 171 and 172.Filos. 184. Filo provided reconnaissance support. A large convoy of 40 vehicles was spotted on the road winding from Paphos to Nicosia and it was vigorously attacked and destroyed at 0755. The effect of this event was that many Cyprus troops gave up their arms as soon as an aircraft was heard approaching. The battles that day resulted in the Turkish army taking Kyrenia (Girne) but at the high cost of 21 fatalities.
Meanwhile on the evening of the 20th, reports had been circulating of a Greek ship convoy having been spotted west of the Paphos harbour, on its way from Rhodes. This serious event caused a special alert for the radar units, and S-2Es from the 301. Filo from Antalya were sent to investigate. The radar reports indicated Greek naval manoeuvrering and later reports spoke of 4 destroyers and 7 transport ships. On the 21st, early in the morning, a RF-84F of 184. Filo piloted by the Filo commander, Lt. Col. Yetkiner, made a thorough investigation. His report was frank: "I have seen nothing!" At the same time, however the Radar station at Anamur and a radar sweep by the S-2Es reported several targets. The question was, is it the US 6th fleet or something else? As the morning became day attacks were planned on the "convoy" and the Trkish Navy confirmed that it had no ships in that sector. At 1300 the Air Force gave the target clear for attack, ordering the 111. Filo with F-100Ds and 141. Filo with F-104Gs to get ready to attack at 1335. Later the 181.Filo was also alerted. At 1400 the departures got under way with 111. Filo launching 16 F-100Ds at Eskisehir between 1410 and 1416 and 181. Filo launching 12 F-100Ds from Antalya between 1430 and 1503. Each of the 28 aircraft carried two 750 pound bombs.
Sixteen F-104Gs of 141.Filo each carrying a 750 pound bomb departed from Ankara/Mrted in the time from 1443 to 1451. In addition two more Filos, 112. Filo with F-100Cs and 191. Filo with F-104Gs were put on ready alert. Before more could be done, however a message was received at 1530 that the aircraft had attacked and sunk a Trkish ship. Later F-104Gs of 191. Filo made a thorough reconnaissance of the area north and west of Cyprus only reporting 4 small vessels. At 2010 air operations for the day were called off with a total of 203 attack and 19 reconnaissance missions,
28 air defence and 23 transport sorties flown (not including army helicopter operations). The day however had seen the loss of four F-100s (a D 55-2825 of 111.Filo and a C.54-2083 of 112.Filo being two of them) and an F-104G (64-17783 of 191.Filo), fortunately without casualties.
July 22. At 0506 in the early morning of the 22nd it was confirmed that the Turkish destroyer "Koatepe" had been sunk. Three hours later four C-130s dropped medical provisions to the rescue forces in the waters north of Cyprus. Meanwhile at 1115 hours in the land battle, 15 C-47s dropped 300 paratroopers in an attack on the area south of Gnyeli, 5 km north of Nicosia. At 1435 17 F-104Gs of 141.Filo attacked the Nicosia airport with 750 pound bombs. This caused the fighting there to stop. At 1535 the Trkish General Command announced an armistice from 1700 onwards. The day had seen 122 attack and 12 reconnaissance missions, 23 air defence and 19 transport sorties completed. An F-5A belonging to the Greek Air Force was seen crashing after an attempt to engage an F-102A (55-3401) flown by Capt. Onur from 142.Filo in an air battle. (some Turkish sources claim that the F-5 was shot down by a Falcon missile)
The days losses were one pilot ejecting from an F-100D (54-2238 of 172.F) and two aircraft destroyed in landing accidents, an F-102A (55-3413) and an F-100C. All three pilots survived.



Im tired of translating and copying texts. Ill explain shortly what happened after this. Finally in 1975 Trkiye conqured the Northern Cyprus Trkish Republic easily in a short time, only for the safety of his people. So thats what happened in the Cyprus war. We crushed and conqured you easily in a short time. Does this look like we were afraid, i dont think so. Next time please have respect for The Trkish Army, whom is one of the strongest army in the world.

Edited by omergun - 02-Oct-2006 at 19:43
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Posts: 106 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 19:48
Originally posted by nikodemos

Originally posted by omergun

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

spain's military can kick anybody's ass


if spain wanted to, it can kick turkey's butt!


who are you to talk like this, Trkish millitary will make pieces of spain.


The sinews of war are infinite money.
I don't remember who said that but he was absolutely right.
The economy of Spain cannot be compared to the crumbling economy of Turkey.Turkey's economy would collapse after a week of fighting.
Turkey cannot construct a single weapon.You spend fortunes to buy weapons just as we do(Greece).On the contrary,Spain has a weapon industry.They possess the knowledge and technology to construct the weapons they need.
Spain is by no means comparable to turkey i think.


Having and creating weopons has nothing to do with economy, do you realy think Trkish Army is going to minimize on weapons because of economical circumstances?
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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 23:04
USA and Russia are first.
China
UK
France
India
Israel
Italy
Turkey
Spain
Portugal
Iran

That is all I can think of.
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Posts: 1028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 04:21
Omergun, the Cyprus campaign of the turkish army, the last operation of this magniduteof the turkish army, was pathetic. Turkey had planned the invasion for a decade (ever since the civil war of 1964), and when the time finally came they realized they could not land their heavy equipment!
And after they landed unopposed more than 5000 infantrymen, they were locked for two days in a bridgehead of some hundreds meters dimensions, by two or three cypriot battalions, each of 350-400 men. And in the second night they were almost collapsed (somthing turks admit). They had to land tanks first before they were able to progress a little.
Apart from the land operations, in the air they lost 54 airplanes, without any enemy airforce! 27 planes due to AA fire, and 27 due to accidents!
Ah, and something you mention only briefly. How terrified the turkish command was only in the idea of the greek navy approaching, that it resulted in a turkish destroyer being sunk, and others damaged. You don't say it, but hundreds of turkish sailors drowned, by the turkish amateurism.
 
Study the arabisraeli war of 1973, to understand the situation of Greece and Turkey.
And to you all turks who think that Turkey is a great power, I direct you to Mussolinis Italy, 'of 1,500,000 lances', to understand that big words are nothing but empty.
 

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It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Military strength today is a direct derivcative of economical & diplomatic clout.
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Posts: 248 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 06:23
Originally posted by omergun


Having and creating weopons has nothing to do with economy, do you realy think Trkish Army is going to minimize on weapons because of economical circumstances?


No,creating weapons has a lot to do with economy.Anyway,I don't think that turkey will reduce the amount of money spent on armament.But buying advanced weapon technology from other countries shows that turkey is not a military power.All the weaponry of turkey is dependent on the American technology.So in fact turkey is dependent on the United states.This doesn't make turkey a military power as you can understand.Wink

Since you don't make your weapons,you are dependent on the countries from which you bought it.This doesn't have to do only with finding spare parts or compatible ammunition.It has also to do with the functioning of your weapons.All the weapons(those that function electronically) have codes you know.So their electronic systems can be accessed and manipulated.You can imagine what happens if the country from which you buy weapons has such interests which are not the same as that of your country.



Edited by nikodemos - 03-Oct-2006 at 06:33
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This would make  Sweden a world power.
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Sweden doesn't want to intervene to world politics. But they could become a military power if they wanted to.In fact they were in the past a dreadfull military power.
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They have a very good arms industry.
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Turkey made the super cobra by itself. If USA cut the supply of the spare parts what you will use in cobras.
And whe we say that Turkey constucts the weapons by itself we mean that you assembly the eweapons. The parts are coming from usa.
Greece has developed the anti air Artemis, and leonidas. We constaructed everything by ourselves.At least we were.

Samos national guard.

260 days left.
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Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

They have a very good arms industry.


One of the best in the world.They produce perhaps the best third generation fighter : the Grippen.
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If  the politics cannot grow the level of life of a nation they usually  feed the people with nationalism,superheroes and super power of the world.Marx used to say that religion is the opium of the people , today we have to add nationalism also. 
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perikles, turkish arms industry is as developed as greek. Turkey has also produced armoured vehicles and self propelled guns, and intends to produce tanks and helicopters in the future. In this aspect Turkey is ahead of Greece, which sticks in buying weapons from outside, and not producing them here with licence (that would be more expensive keep in mind). That's what the new law about arms purchases was about, which included that in every purchase greek industry will participate. A hopeful sign the last two years is that the greek arms industry has increased greatly its exports, which however remain small.
Nonethelss, it is clear that a country with poor internal industry cannot be classified as world power.

Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Posts: 300 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 10:49
pooufff...u still discuss about cyprus war...it is not necessery,everyone saw result...
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But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
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