QuoteReplyTopic: Arab and spanish Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 09:25
wow guys, wasn't this thread totally dead?, and now i see that our friend Worldhistory had amused in last days insulting and laughing of our fellows
Here you have the traduction to spanish of the Mozarabic chronicle (754), i can translate portions of the text (to those friends that aren't rudes ) :
Note: I have edited and translated the portions of the Chronicle; guys you are privileged because i think this is the first time that the chronicle is available in english internet. Becareful, is translated from an spanish traslation that i don't like very much (of J.E. Lpez Pereira, Zaragoza 1980) wich translated the original
Abdelaziz [713-715] it had imposed the peace for the
whole Spain for three years, submitting it to
the yoke of the census. Boasting in
Seville with his wealths and honors that he was sharing with the queen of Spain
[Egiln], which it had joined in marriage, or with the daughters of the kings
and princes with whom he was living together and later it was retiring
imprudently, promoted a conspiracy of theirs, it was murdered by council of
Ayub, when he was devoting himself to the prayer.
This one governs Spain for one month,
and by order of the prince it replaces him in the throne of Hesperia Alaor,
whom he is informed about the death of Abdelaziz to the effect that for council
of the queen Egiln, previous wife of king Rodrigo, whom that one had married,
it was trying to remove from his head the Arab yoke and to assume individually
the conquered Iberian kingdom [...].
During his reign Alaor [715-718] he
sends the arms of the justice for Spain, and between wars and agreements it
tries to come in almost three years to the Gaul Narbonense. This way, he organizes
little by little the Ulterior Spain forcing her to pay taxes and he is
supported in the hithermost Iberia preserving the throne the already
stated years [...].
Zama [718-720], which was filling the
governor's vacancy in Spain was doing little less than three
years, it does census of the Citerior Iberia with its own pen to load the
taxes. It avoids between his Allied Forces gained fields, as well as any other
thing that the Arabs were preserving in Spain still without distributing, fruit
of the previous booties. To the Public Treasure delivery departs from all the
goods furniture and real estate [...].
Finally, it conquers the Gaul Narbonense
and torments with frequent wars the people of the Franks; to protect well his
defenses it leaves a garrison of Saracens in already the just cited city of
Narbonne and, with the army who was accompanying him, the already named general
came in his struggle up to Toulouse and, besieging it, it tries to assault her
with siege machines of diverse type (note: literally,
"slingers"? and other machines). Then the Francs, insurances of such
a news, meet to the orders of his duke Eudo. When near of Toulouse, one and another army they are in
hard battle, they kill Zauma, general of the Saracen army, and to part of the
troop there gathered. To the rest of the army who escapes they chase him in his
flight.
It takes the control of this one
Abderramn and it preserved it one month, until by order of the Caliph his
chief Ambiza comes [in 721] [...].
Also he, projecting wars against the Francs and carrying out them by means of
satraps sent for the work, fights with adverse luck. But doing brawls, with
formation in wedge of his forces, it attacks some cities and castles, and this
way, duplicating the taxes to the Christians, suppresses them hardly and,
loaded with honors, governs triumphally Spain [...].
[In the year] hundredth seventh of the
Arabs [=725 d. J.C.] it happens to Ambiza, by order of the princes [=the
caliph], a Saracen called Yaha, terrible dictator, that it burns in cruel
anger during near three years and, taken of his hard character, it chases the
Saracens and the Moors of Spain for having usurped the previously paid to
obtain the peace and returns many things to the Christians [...].
[In the year] hundredth tenth ninth of
the Arabs [=734 d. J. C.], the fifteen of Iseam, Aucupa came to relieve to him
[= Uqba]. This, while the whole Spain was afraid of his political power,
his illustrious ancestry and his fidelity to the law, imprisons his predecessor
and punishes hardly the judges that he had nominated.
In effect, at the same time that it
forces to fulfill the law, it orders to do a census of the people and promotes
with effort the exaction of taxes. Expel
who had ruined Spain and to the involved ones in diverse
corruption on to another side of the
sea. It enriches rapidly to the Exchequer for different river beds and it is
supported in a big austerity and with completely secret donations. He does not
punish anybody, not to be in accordance with the justice, and he begin an expedition against the Franks with a multitudinous
army [...].
Beginning the hundredth thirtieth [year]
[=746 d. J.C.], the Council of palace [of Al-Andalus] in plenary meeting, in an
extraordinary acclamation, it chooses for the throne of the nation Yuzif for
being a nobleman and of advanced age.
Not many days later, promoting Arab
diverse struggles in Spain against him, they were delivering
his souls to the hell without having obtained any success. It orders to do a
census to include the surviving population, and feverishly, even at the cost of
becoming a culprit of savings, orders that the archivists should erase of the
public book those Christian taxpayers that the sword had murdered along so many
pursuits. "
The other portion:
"In the age 782 [=744 d. J. C.],
died, after asking with insistence for the peace, the warrior Teodomiro, who in
diverse areas of Spain had caused considerable slaughters of Arabs and had done
with them the agreement that it owed. Already in times of the Gothic kings
Egica and Witiza it had risen with the victory on the Byzantine ones, that as
good sailors had come up to his homeland for sea.
Considering it [the Caliph of Damascus] more prudent than the others, it
extolled it favorably and confirmed the agreement that previously it had
established with Abdelaziz [in 713]. This way, he remains corroborated in such
a way that by no means the force of so firm bond might already be annulled by
the Arab successors, and after this it returns to Spain delighted.
After the death of Teodomiro, it is
considered like man of big dignity and nobility [his son] Atanagildo, since he
was the richest master of all and the most generous on having distributed his
money with them. But soon, after comes to Spain king Alhozan [the governor
Abu-l-Jattar to the-Husam, in 742-744] snatched by what madness, it threw
against him big terms of abuse and condemned it to 27.000 golden solidus. When
the army who had come with general Balch know this, in almost three days, he paid everything and immediately they reconcile it
with Alhozan of nickname Abutcatar, and rewarding him with diverse gifts
restore him in the power."
Now here, you can see the coins of VIII century in Al-Andalus:
Central inscription: Front: "There is no god but the only Allah. He haven't equal" Behind: "Allah is only and eternal, undivisioned he have not conceive and haven't been conceived, he haven't equal"
External inscription: "In the name of Allah. This dirhan was made in Al-Andalus. 154 of the Hgira"
"Muhammad is the messenger of God. He sent him with the guide and the true Din for show it to all religions even if the politheist deny it"
When i will had time we will discuss a lot of things Worldhistory.
The chronicle talk us about the expansion of the islamic empire and mainly about the conflict between romans (byzantines) and arabs, in the article 36, 41 and 42 we can read:
"36. Hulit obtained next the scepter of the kingdom of the Saracens,
according to what his father had established, happening to this one in
the kingdom [58]. He reigns for nine years. He was a male of a big
knowledge at the time of deploy his troops, up to such a point that,
even turning out to be forbidden of the divine favor, destroyed the
armies of almost all the nearby peoples him.
And it debilitates especially to the Roman Empire with continuas
incursions, and to the islands it took them almost to the exhaustion.
He submitted with his conquests the territories of the India. And in
the regions of Occident, by means of the general of his army of name
Musa [59] invaded and submitted the kingdom of the Goths in Hispania,
firm and powerful kingdom from ancient;
and after throwing below this kingdom, it did his Gothic subjects.
Carrying out this way prosperously all these wars, during the ninth
year of his reign, after had been showed before him wealths proceeding
from all the peoples as he had imagined it, it came at the end of his
life.
41. Yzit,
that obtained next the kingdom of the Saracens, reigns for four years [68] ...
Anyway, in the western regions it carried out of happily some battles by means of the generals of his army.
42. He submits to his power also to the Gaul Narbonense by means of the
general of his army Mazlema [69], and attacks with frequent wars the
people of the Franks. This way, making use of an excessive value, the
already said general of the Saracen army came up to Toulouse and tried
to take by storm this city, putting siege with all kinds of machines of war.
On having known similar news, the Franks meet concerning one of his
generals of name Eudo [70]. Grouped this way, they come up to Toulouse. At the doors of Toulouse one and another army unite combat in a
struggle to death. The Franks finish with Zema, general of the saracen army [71], and a part of his army, and put in escape and chase
the rest of the army of the Saracens." Notes:
58. Walid I, Caliph between 705 and 715. 59. Musa ibn Nusayr, arab governor of North frica, first muslim governor of Al-Andalus, between 711-714. (67). Yazid II, caliph between 720-724 68. The just cited Ya.zid II 69.
According to Dubler, " On the Arabic - Byzantine Chronicle ... ", notation 1 of p. 320, the mention here of this general Mazlema, who does
not appear in no other of our ancient sources, is probably a confusion,
either of the author either of a copyist, with general Maslama,
victorious in East, brother of Sulaymn and of Yazid II, quoted in the
chapters 38 and 41. The reference to Maslama enters also contradiction
with the following news of the chronicle the one that says to herself
that the Moslem army was directed by As-Samh ibn Malik to the-Khaulani
(general Zema of our work). 70. Duke Eudo of Aquitain. The battle of Tolouse took place on May 11 of 721. 71. The general As-Samh ibn Malik al-Khaulani.
Thanks to Ikki for posting these. "worldhistory", me, Ikki and others have gone to considerable lenghts of time to post proofs that you not only deny but never, ever, provide another source to prove your points. You're trying to prove to all of us that the sky is really green, but you don't provide any source or proof to back your claims. So, unless you have something else to say or post BESIDES general aphorisms of the style "you're all gullible children, you don't know blah, blah, blah,.." I, at least, consider this thread closed.
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
What a bunch of crap, first time I got into this Forum and already got a new perspective on the history of my country (Portugal), no less by an antipode. I guess those ruined sufi tombs near my house must be some celtiberian shrine, thats it, oh, and above all, the castle walls surveying my little town, definitely are from alien origin.
by the way the word "muculmano" is not a spanish word (castellano), but Portuguese.
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