Where did Xia people go?

Before the Iberians lived in Spain, they lived in Bohemia (there's not that much difference between the names "Elbe" and "Ebro"); in the most ancient of times, they had come to Bohemia for the tin mines from the first Iberia, ancient Colchis of the Golden Fleece. Some Centum Indo-Europeans conquered the area around 4000 BC. When they absorbed some of the Iberians, they became the Theudi (Teutons). So among the contributions of the Iberians was the Germanics, not to mention the Irish (of Ivernia). Upon being invaded, most of the Iberians migrated to Spain, along with the Lusi (from Lusatia) and the Tartessi (from the Tatras). Once in Spain, they fought with their relatives the Basques (from the Beskids), and drove them into the northeast mountains. And before that, the Basques had driven the Capsian Cantabrians from Morocco into Asturias. Before the peninsula was called Iberia, it was Cantabria. The very first inhabitants of Britain and Ireland were from Cantabrian Spain (9000 BC). At some point (3500 BC) the Iberians exploded out of their peninsula and overran most of Western Europe, defeating their old rivals the Ligurians in France and Britain. They also heavily settled Ireland and gave that island its old name, Hibernia. This was the old Iberian "empire" that Opuslola mentioned above. They penetrated all the way to Belgium (Fir Bolg) and Denmark (Tuatha De Danaan). Iberians settled in Algeria and became the Nemed. Everything west of the Rhine and the Rhone was theirs. Then the Indo-European tribes moved west (3000 BC). The Iberians gave rise to the Germans, the Ligurians gave rise to the Celts. A tribe of Venedi (ancient ancestors of the Central Asian Tocharians, among many others) colonized the Lusi and made them into the Lusitanians. Celts settled in vast swaths of Iberia, and gave rise to the Celtiberians. Hamites from Morocco and Semites from Canaan made the Tartessi multi-ethnic. Both the Basques and the Iberians sailed to the New World before Christ. And Tarshish is famous in the Bible as being a city of splendor. It has been established by Basque scholars that the ancient Apenninian people of central Italy spoke a language related to Basque. They lived inland from the Rasni of Tuscany (the Villanovan culture, originally from ancient Switzerland) who, along with Tyrsenoi migrants from Old Lydia and the Pelasgoi of Aegean Greece, gave rise to the Etruscans. All of these ancient peoples were Old Europeans, and spoke languages that were a branch of the great Dene-Caucasian superfamily which, by the way, includes Chinese and Navajo. So ultimately the Anglos are among your closest relatives; there would be no Anglos without the Iberians. The Habsburg connection is older than you thought. Incidentally, "Red Clay" is the meaning of the name "Adam."  

Edited by goguryeo - 15-Feb-2011 at 00:27

Oh no, I never meant to imply that the Amerinds got everything from outside sources. The civilizations of Olmec, Aztec, and Inca were their accomplishment alone; they merely had stylistic art influence from outside. But, as I said before, the South American sweet potato had already made it halfway around the world to Madagascar and Mozambique early in the Christian era. That was just one way the Amerinds influenced world civilization. Some think that the Guanches on the Canary Islands were colonists from Mexico led by Quetzalcoatl.

Edited by goguryeo - 14-Feb-2011 at 19:14

There are many things to consider.  However don't make the mistake of thinking the exchange of ideas was all one way.  It is an easy jump to think that the "Amerinds" were reliant on outside ideas.  It didn't work that way.

Originally posted by goguryeo   ........   I don't think the ocean currents were quite right for the Chinese to have crossed the Pacific to Mexico (the currents are perfect for Japan to Peru, but not back); besides, the Chinese never had a great ocean-going tradition, the Xia least of all. The Shang deposed the Xia in 1675 BC, I don't think the Proto-Chinese were even sailing as far as Japan at that point; their boats were probably gigantic canoes, fit for Huang He river traffic only.   .......    I love the Xia and the Chinese, but I don't think they had the seafaring skills for the kind of voyage that killed a huge part of Magellan's crew many years later. The Xia lived thousands of miles away from the nearest Polynesians, who would have been the only ones in that neck of the woods who could have gotten them across in one piece. .....

Yes! Funny isn't it, that that old Norse writer and explorer, who made a science out of Ocean Currnets, and the drift derived thereof, now seems to have been some-what correct?

Can you say "Aku-aku", or "Con-tiki?"

Thanks Thor!

But... I do not mean to screw up your favorite theory or anything, but I always heard that the Olmecs were originally Libyan and Egyptian colonists who first settled in West Africa (around Senegal) and then sailed across the sea to the shores of Mexico. I know that the Olmecs gave rise to all of the great Mexican civilizations, like the Mayans and the Aztecs. Although some Japanese definitely made it to Peru at a very early date (the Incas already had Japanese chickens when the conquistadores arrived), I don't think the ocean currents were quite right for the Chinese to have crossed the Pacific to Mexico (the currents are perfect for Japan to Peru, but not back); besides, the Chinese never had a great ocean-going tradition, the Xia least of all. The Shang deposed the Xia in 1675 BC, I don't think the Proto-Chinese were even sailing as far as Japan at that point; their boats were probably gigantic canoes, fit for Huang He river traffic only. If the Libyans and Egyptians had Phoenician pilots for their vessels (as is likely), chances are good to excellent that they were the ones who got there. The trans-Atlantic crossing was much more survivable. A book I have on the American civilizations says that Olmec statues have African features, which makes me think they came after an extended stay in West Africa. The Zuni tribe of New Mexico speaks a Phoenician-based language to this very day; they're obviously the descendents of Phoenician colonists who moved up the Rio Grande to get away from the hurricanes. The Phoenicians definitely knew the way to America. I love the Xia and the Chinese, but I don't think they had the seafaring skills for the kind of voyage that killed a huge part of Magellan's crew many years later. The Xia lived thousands of miles away from the nearest Polynesians, who would have been the only ones in that neck of the woods who could have gotten them across in one piece. Polynesians from the Marquesas went frequently to Peru, where they bartered for sweet-potatoes. With all due respect for your Xia theory, I think it more likely that it was the Egyptians/Libyans/Phoenicians/West Africans who started the Olmec. The clincher is that Olmec civilization didn't begin until 1000 BC, and Xia Civilization ended in 1675 BC; that's almost a 700 year hiatus. The Shang fell in 1045 BC, the timeframe's right for the Shang; but the Chinese seafaring skills were non-existent at that point in history. And yet...looking again at those striking masks, they look totally Chinese, not at all African. The Olmec African-looking sculptures I saw were all from the Atlantic coast. Perhaps this is two separate colonizations we are seeing here. Were the Olmecs even on the Pacific? Maybe it was another Indian tribe like the Zapotecs who met the Chinese. I guess some obliging Japanese just may have taken the Shang that far, although I don't know why stay-at-homes like them would have any desire to go to the ends of the earth.  But don't forget our old friends the Egyptians for the Atlantic coast, they knew the way. After all, they started the Micmacs in Maine; the Micmacs have the hieroglyphics to prove it. You should read the fine book called "America BC", by Barry Fell; it tells all about the many, many trans-Atlantic colonizations that took place before the birth of Christ. Thank you very much for responding to my post. And maybe the Japanese did take some of the Shang, who knows? Wait, the Japanese were still Ainu at this point; they had canoes. It had to have been the Dravidians, they were great seafarers at this point. Maybe the Shang linked up with the West Africans somewhere in central Mexico. That's a meeting I would have loved to have seen! Actually I'm convinced now, those masks look too Chinese for coincidence. But it couldn't have been the Olmecs, they only lived on the Atlantic coast. It must have been their Pacific contemporaries, all I can think of is the Zapotecs. Please give me a few more details, like locale and dates. Oh yeah, Oaxaca, that's the Zapotecs. So the Dravidians (or even better, the Malays!)  took the Shang to see the Zapotecs. The Shang people at this time called themselves the Huaxia, so your theory is still correct. Interesting idea. 

Edited by goguryeo - 14-Feb-2011 at 20:44

Holy mush! The first Hmong community? Did they go to Stockton? Well, who the heck did they become? The Zunis? The Gabrielenos? Who? Well now I've heard everything!

The Charioteer hasn't been active for a very long time, unfortunately. 

Originally posted by cliveersknell I think some went north to eventually evolve into the Xiongnu confederation. Sima Qian mentioned this . r's Clive