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"Caucasians" preceded East Asians in Tarim Basin

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Caucasians" preceded East Asians in Tarim Basin
    Posted: 10-Oct-2006 at 11:53
Deff maybe. , maybe some were there was snow, bears, wolfs, rowing, but no sea.(ill get back with some more)
these are some of the most common words apparently though the I/E tongue that can be traced back to proto I/E.
and it seems to point to the southern russian steppes.to the punjab,north west india,,maybe even tibet. yes its a big space, but we are working on it.
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 09:18
Originally posted by Zagros

What is the significance of their skull shape? There is no consistant skull shape among IE speakers.





I know IE speakers don't have constant skull shape. Note that I didn't say Indo-european skull shape. moreover IE is just a linguistical term.

I said European caucasian in anthropological term, although they were comprised of many sub classes with slight difference, according to anthropological study, Asian Caucasians exhibit a short, flat face and round skull, while the European Caucasians have long face, protruding nose and long skull.

Again remember, Toharian texts only dates back to 6-8th century AD. They are not the only texts from that period from the same location. 26 types of historical scripts in more than ten lanugages were found in Uyghur region dates much earlier than this period. When Zhangqian came to this region 140 BC, he mentioned the city names Suli, Barchuq, Yanchi, Qojo etc pure Turkic names.


    
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 15:24
I was watching a program in discovery channel, about these mumies, They found that those mumies were remaining from a carvan lost in the desert and silk road was very older than what we expected. These mumies could be only merchants not locals
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  Quote Afsar Beghi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 16:15
I agree with shinai , i think this researchers publish this things with a goal, to claim what they think is right. They look at this from only their own perspective. Are there other researches that say the same thing?
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 11:39
Originally posted by shinai

I was watching a program in discovery channel, about these mumies, They found that those mumies were remaining from a carvan lost in the desert and silk road was very older than what we expected. These mumies could be only merchants not locals


How come you can believe such a nonsense? Early mummies are all caucasian, if they were not the locals, where were the bodies of the locals?




    
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  Quote Afsar Beghi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 14:47
Originally posted by barbar

Originally posted by shinai

I was watching a program in discovery channel, about these mumies, They found that those mumies were remaining from a carvan lost in the desert and silk road was very older than what we expected. These mumies could be only merchants not locals


How come you can believe such a nonsense? Early mummies are all caucasian, if they were not the locals, where were the bodies of the locals?




    


maybe the locals migrated out of the Tarim BasinTongueWink
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 03:45
The great majority of Tocharians moved from the Tarim Basin after being pushed out by the Huns (Hsung Nu) and the Wu-Sun (another Indo-European nomadic people) and entered Transoxiana (Northern Afghanistan-Tajikistan, Uzbekistan) region. 
 
Eventually they invaded and/or occupied most of Afghanistan and the region in Afghanistan known for them is Tocharistan (ie. Tokharistan, present day Takhar province). 
 
They were settled and dispersed throughout Afghanistan, eventually making their way into Punjab as well.  You can most likely find their genes in Afghanistan, China, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Pakistan, possibly even as far as Turkmenistan and Iran.
 
They most likely had similarities with the Scythian peoples, and branches of them may been the progenitors of the White Huns, ie. the Ephtalites.


Edited by Afghanan - 11-Nov-2006 at 03:47
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  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 05:29
Originally posted by Bulldog

Its funny how some people still think, Mongoloid peoples, Chinease, Turkic etc people's stayed in their little confined space in some far away remote mountain while Europeans paraded around the globe and lived exclusively alone with their own people only.
 
 
Originally posted by Bulldog


The whole idea that we were all totally seperate from each other back then and Indo-Europeans lived solely alone in the Steppe's doing everything whilst the other's did absolutly nothing is a ridiculous theory.    
    
Let me add my two penneth to the discussion. When I first read  those comments made by  Bulldog  which I have quoted above, I really agreed with them and thought it really makes sense, but later when I checked  the  map of the world  I realized  that Tarim basin is very close  to the center point of the Euroasian continent meaning it is really not that east.  China itself which is to the east of Tarim basin is bigger than the whole Europe and there exists  this huge land (almost half of the whole Euroasian continent ) above and east of Mongolia called Siberia.  To say that Mongoloid peoples stayed in their little confind space in far away mountains is a little one sided and far fetched because even if Caucasooid people inhabited as far east  as Tarim basin , still there was half or even more of the continenet left  eastwords  and northwords.  Guessing from the fact that Mongoloid peoples are far better equipped and suited for cold weather than caucasoid peoples , it is easy to assume that they had enough space  to inhabit and parade( as Bulldog puts it) to the north and east of Mongolia , while the caucasoid people inhabited and paraded in Central Asia (which is really not that east if you think of the whole continent)  and westwards.
Also guessing from the population of the whole earth at that time( much less than now) and the quality of transportation, it is not that surprising if different types of people did not mix or even meet each other at all.


Edited by omshanti - 11-Nov-2006 at 08:39
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 17:54
Omshanti, the Tarim Basin borders the Tien Shan and Altay area, these are known as historic Turkic areas, having TUrkic cultures for thousands of years, there are many legends and mythologies which relate to these areas.
 
 
 
Also guessing from the population of the whole earth at that time( much less than now) and the quality of transportation, it is not that surprising if different types of people did not mix or even meet each other at all.
 
The domestecation of horses occured around 5000 BC, Altaic groups are well known to have posessed great horse-riding skills, the Turks have been called the "Storm on Horseback" throughout history.
 
Now, if they managed to get from Siberia to the Caspian Sea and then the Balkans in a short time I see absolutely no reason why they couldn't have gone a few KM south. The Xiong-Nu are known to be in the region over two millenia ago.
 
 
.  Guessing from the fact that Mongoloid peoples are far better equipped and suited for cold weather than caucasoid peoples
 
Mongoloid people's are more suited to warm weather, they have higher melanin levels in their skin which is why they can get darker. Caucasoid people's are well suited for cold weather, its why they inhabit Copenhagen, Moscow, Amsterdamn and not Africa. 
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 18:30
Originally posted by Bulldog

Mongoloid people's are more suited to warm weather, they have higher melanin levels in their skin which is why they can get darker. Caucasoid people's are well suited for cold weather, its why they inhabit Copenhagen, Moscow, Amsterdamn and not Africa. 
 
That's simply not true. The inuit people, which are "Mongoloid" people, are as well "equipped" biologically to live in extreme cold weather as the "Caucasoids." The Mongolians, the Tibetans, and the Andean Amerindians too. (Unless you want to argue, which I think you do as evident in your past behaviour, that since these people were essentially "Turkic", they must be "Caucasian" by default, which is of course an EXTREMELY interesting argument Wink    )
 
You also forget that Arabs and Indians are also "Caucasoid" and they live in areas of extreme heat.  
 
Your "argument" beautifully demonstrates the danger of using pseudoscientific claims to support history, which seems to be one of your favourite activities.


Edited by flyingzone - 11-Nov-2006 at 18:49
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 20:35
Sorry but it wasn't me who bought up the theory that Mongoloids live in cold places while Caucosoids live in Warm places.
 
I just pointed out the irony of this whole argument, there are Mongoloid people's living in very hot climatic areas and Caucasoids living in Cold climatic areas and vica-versa.
 
Besides, the entire terminology of Caucosoid and Mongoloid are being heavily criticised today.
 
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 20:42
Then it should be your job to refute those false claims instead of trying to reinforce them by cunningly merging them with the rest of your post.
 
No, I didn't see any effort of you in "pointing out the irony of this whole argument" as you claim. You are trying to use pseudoscience to confuse us.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 20:59
I'm sorry that the manner in which I write my posts and how I conduct them doesn't suit you personally but that's just you, the world doesn't revolve around yourself.
 
Your percieved confusion is a subjective matter related to yourself, you are not "us" and don't represent "us". We all are individuals and are quite capable of giving our own views thank you very much Smile.
 
 
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 21:18
It is very straightforward. Did you or did you not write this?
 
Originally posted by Bulldog

 
Mongoloid people's are more suited to warm weather, they have higher melanin levels in their skin which is why they can get darker. Caucasoid people's are well suited for cold weather, its why they inhabit Copenhagen, Moscow, Amsterdamn and not Africa. 
 
Trust me, the "us" represents a lot of us here at AE. Maybe you are just too deluded not to have noticed that.
 
You are the one who thinks the whole world revolves around your self-aggrandizing "everything and everyone is Turkish" fantasy.
 


Edited by flyingzone - 11-Nov-2006 at 21:21
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 21:52
I agree with AE staff moderating content in addition to behavior, because it's a history forum.
 
SubjectTopic: "Caucasians" preceded East Asians in Tarim Basin
 
Has anybody done a quick background check on the people who researched this topic?
 
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  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 22:37
It seems like that my post and the comment on Mongoloid peoples and cold weather has caused some disturbance in the discussion. I have to say that it was not my intention at all to make any one feel bad and I apologize for the disturbance.
Let me explain why I wrote that mongoloid people are better equipped for cold weather. First of all I think that to discuss the distribution of people or races in modern times  is useless because we are talking about a different kind of time span when it comes to the evolution of human being and races. It  must have taken  2-5 hundred thousand  years of isolation for the races of humanity to have evolved in to how they are now . Few thousand years of migration does not make that much difference so we cannot use the present distribution of races and the climate of earth as a clue at all. I am half Japanese and lived in Japan for 10 years. There were numerous tv programs in Japan that discussed and searched why Japanese people store fat 3 to 5 times easier than Caucasoid people.  They discoverd that this tendency is shared by all the mongoloid peoples in the world including the native Americans, and is probably one of the reasosns that mongoloid people tend to have one eyelid eyes( because of the amount of fat stored on their eyelids). the reason for this is believed to be  because mongolid peoples evolved as a race in colder climate than caucasoid peoples.  Hope this helps a little to explain why I wrote that comment


Edited by omshanti - 12-Nov-2006 at 10:56
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 11:17
Yes, Omshanti, I have sensed a disturbance in the Force.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 09:49
Originally posted by shinai

I was watching a program in discovery channel, about these mumies, They found that those mumies were remaining from a carvan lost in the desert and silk road was very older than what we expected. These mumies could be only merchants not locals
 
 
I visited the Xinjiang Museum in Urumqi in 2002, there were about 20 of them including " Loulan Beauty"楼兰美女, " Charchan Man" 且末人, one baby , one couple etc. Due to the renovation of the museum at that time, these corpses actually placed in the warehouse. Entry fee is quite cheap RMB25-00. It's quite an eyeopening to see so many dry corpses at one go.


Edited by ladyoscar - 04-Dec-2006 at 22:13
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2006 at 16:47
A good movie about these mummies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw64i6nGuss

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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 01:20

Hi Bullog.

I agree with Omshanti. See, I've an Asiatic Turkmen/Kazak. I've lived with Asiatic Central Asians, as well as Hazaras. We can tolerate extreme cold weather, not easy, but easier than warm weather. In fact, we prefer colder places.
 
And we don't usually get dark. Turkmenistan receives a great amount of sun shines; but I'm not dark as you might think.
 
Iranian are moderate; I mean they're not white and not black either; average. I've lived in Mashat, Iran for two years. Although Mashat is considered to be a city in desert and quite hot with with a small amout of humdity, I didn't get darker there. Iranians always wondered to see a white (not exactly white, but a mixture of white and red) guy there.
 
I agree with Omshanti.


Edited by gok_toruk - 13-Jan-2007 at 08:38
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