Why was Europe First?

Originally posted by dud I think that Europe had a lucky combo of events. One was a population boom around 1500 CE. Also during the time of the Black Death, the public support of the Church faltered and there was much oppression from both Church and state. I think that European superiority was precipitated from the Enlightenment which promoted science when before it had been associated with evil forces. China just didn't have the incentives.

That's a rather narrow view on the historical development and emergence of modern civilization. Population numbers rose and fell all the time, in Europe, in China and else. To explain the rise of the modern world with plain demographics is almost the same as to avoid answering the queston, because demographics doesn't answer much at all.

Also, your view on pre-Enlightenment science in Europe is highly flawed, science as a method (eg. the scientific method) and as an endeavour came into existence in medieval Europe, though of course it had a long way to go before it was perfected. Apart from the early contributions of a few Islamic scholars, the development of science (as opposed to engineering/technology) was an entirely European endeavour which lasted for several centuries prior and up to the Enlightenment.

You OTOH mention science as if it was a readily available concept that appeared out of nowhere and was first rejected due to religious fervour and then suddenly accepted when the Church "lost its grip on people", which then marked the beginning of Enlightenment and a sharp break with the past. If there is one myth that deserves to be debunked, it's the one about Europeans living in darkness and ignorance due to the power of the Church.

But, back to the topic itself... Europe's rise was IMO due to 3 key factors: its Greco-Roman heritage, the emergence of the European nation state and scholasticism. The Italian Renaissance which someone mentioned was only a highly visual and artistic expression of some of the changes that were already taking place in Europe but by no means the originator or even a significant part of these processes.

The evolution of these 3 key factors and processes can be traced all the way back to the fall of Roman Empire but you could say that they became almost inevitable by the turn of the millenium. By then the Viking raids into mainland Europe had been mostly pacified, the Arab incursions into southern Europe likewise, many European nations were starting to take their modern shape (the Norman conquest of England, etc), all of which enabled long-term stability on the continent which in turn enabled further economic and other developments. But like I said, that's just the part concerning the necessary stability for development and prosperity for the processes to be successful. The processes themselves had much deeper roots...



Edited by abvgd - 18-Feb-2011 at 19:42

I think that Europe had a lucky combo of events. One was a population boom around 1500 CE. Also during the time of the Black Death, the public support of the Church faltered and there was much oppression from both Church and state. I think that European superiority was precipitated from the Enlightenment which promoted science when before it had been associated with evil forces. China just didn't have the incentives.  

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi We don't need to be praised and we don't claim to be the only Aryan people in the world but Iran without Aryan has no meaning, if someone says "Aryans" were a great people and then you call him a racist, you have in fact insulted the whole Iranian peoples. Yes you are extremely naive.

What he said about Aryan people does not make him racist. He did not put down any race. In fact if you call him racist then you are are degrading many factions, as Cyrus has already said. 

Btw, Cyrus and Darius, you are really naive thinking that when these people praise 'Aryans' they praise the Iranians...

We don't need to be praised and we don't claim to be the only Aryan people in the world but Iran without Aryan has no meaning, if someone says "Aryans" were a great people and then you call him a racist, you have in fact insulted the whole Iranian peoples.

Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor This specific statement, along with the general candor of some of his other posts, is the one which made him suspect:   Originally posted by Aurorum Discovery and progress is difficult in societies which hold tradition above exploration; and if y' can't think of alternatives -- if your genetic combination does not allow for creativity and flexibility -- y' can't move ahead.

Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor This specific statement, along with the general candor of some of his other posts, is the one which made him suspect.

I'm sorry, again. I did not mean to be rude.

Originally posted by Aurorum Let us not forgot the six-thousand-year Western technological advantage: The wheel was introduced to Asia via the West;

Let us not forgEt that Mesopotamia is actually situated in Asia.

Originally posted by Aurorum chemicals and batteries and advanced social-systems were developed by the Aryan empires (Egyptian, Persian, and Northern Indian)

I think you left a few Semitic empires of great imporance out...why?? And you claimed Egyptians to be Aryan. Ouch...

And about the Northern Indian civilisation, do you mean Harappa?? Because that one wasn't Aryan either.

Where are you from?


Edited by Slayertplsko - 29-Sep-2008 at 17:38

I just hope his saying about Aryans has not been considered as racist!

Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 30-Sep-2008 at 15:03

Aurorum, after reading your posts you do tend to appear to only know of black and white. You have also shown a lack of intellectual capacity necessary for proper and objective dialogue. Being that is the case, Bey has observed your racist remarks as a threat to educated discussions and to our patience. I second his notion that you are better off at stormfront. Adios!