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Creten and Mycecnean ethnicity

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Creten and Mycecnean ethnicity
    Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 05:54

How would you define th ethinc of the ancient crete people, ( the minoa culture  and the people of mycene culture. In school they taught us that they where greeks , is that true??   Can you please enlighten the rest who deosn't know,

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 06:06

Minoans were pre-Greek. Their language, Linear A has not been deciphered yet.

Myceneans, who conquered the Minoans, were Greek. Their language, Linear B has been deciphered already from the 1960's.

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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 11:13
The later Greeks classified all the Pre-Greek peoples, incluiding the residents of Crete ("Minoans"), as Pelasgians.
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  Quote Rebelsoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 06:45
BK_BK, see the thread "Greeks indigenous" for more on this issue
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2012 at 19:26
They must have been closely related to the Greeks. If not ancestors, the Minoans may have been cousins of the Myceneans
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2012 at 12:32
Originally posted by Nick1986

They must have been closely related to the Greeks. If not ancestors, the Minoans may have been cousins of the Myceneans

Probably yes. Greek tribes conquered Crete after 1500 BC but Greek presence on this island could have been earlier than that.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2012 at 19:52
According to this book the Minoans and Myceneans shared the same religion. Perhaps the ancestors of the Myceneans absorbed the original Minoan population but preserved their culture?
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-OwRuSQQYi0C&lpg=PA1&dq=crete%20minoans%20mycenaeans&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2012 at 01:30
The original inhabitants of Crete, Greece, the island of Thera, etc., were all basically of the same culture, and possibly, quite closely related in language, long before the  Mycenaeans came down into Greece and borrowed wholesale their material culture, and much of their religion, as well,  but kept their own language (Linear B Greek) for whatever reason. Although some claim that Linear A  (thought to be the Cretan language) has been deciphered, nothing convincing can be demonstrated to absolutely prove it.
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  Quote maks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 04:56
Neither Mycenaeans nor Minoans were proto-Greeks. There is ample evidence as to their Pelasgian origin, that is to say the population which was before the Greeks came into existence. Classical Greeks perceived them as markedly different. The Greek ethnos was shaped from 8th century B.C onward. 
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 08:56
Originally posted by maks

Neither Mycenaeans nor Minoans were proto-Greeks. There is ample evidence as to their Pelasgian origin, that is to say the population which was before the Greeks came into existence. Classical Greeks perceived them as markedly different. The Greek ethnos was shaped from 8th century B.C onward. 


I agree, Greeks can be Mycenaeans and Minoans, but Mycenaeans and Minoans can't be Greek.

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Minoans came from Near East

"Crete’s fabled Minoan civilization was built by people from Anatolia, according to a new study by Greek and foreign scientists that disputes an earlier theory that said the Minoans’ forefathers had come from Africa.

The new study – a collaboration by experts in Greece, the USA, Canada, Russia and Turkey – drew its conclusions from the DNA analysis of 193 men from Crete and another 171 from former neolithic colonies in central and northern Greece.

The results show that the country’s neolithic population came to Greece by sea from Anatolia – modern-day Iran, Iraq and Syria – and not from Africa as maintained by US scholar Martin Bernal.

The DNA analysis indicates that the arrival of neolithic man in Greece from Anatolia coincided with the social and cultural upsurge that led to the birth of the Minoan civilization, Constantinos Triantafyllidis of Thessaloniki’s Aristotle University told Kathimerini.

“Until now we only had the archaeological evidence – now we have genetic data too and we can date the DNA,” he said."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1996686/posts

But Hellens came from North Balkans to Greece, didn't they?



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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2012 at 06:54
Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by maks

Neither Mycenaeans nor Minoans were proto-Greeks. There is ample evidence as to their Pelasgian origin, that is to say the population which was before the Greeks came into existence. Classical Greeks perceived them as markedly different. The Greek ethnos was shaped from 8th century B.C onward. 


I agree, Greeks can be Mycenaeans and Minoans, but Mycenaeans and Minoans can't be Greek.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minoans came from Near East

"Crete’s fabled Minoan civilization was built by people from Anatolia, according to a new study by Greek and foreign scientists that disputes an earlier theory that said the Minoans’ forefathers had come from Africa.

The new study – a collaboration by experts in Greece, the USA, Canada, Russia and Turkey – drew its conclusions from the DNA analysis of 193 men from Crete and another 171 from former neolithic colonies in central and northern Greece.

The results show that the country’s neolithic population came to Greece by sea from Anatolia – modern-day Iran, Iraq and Syria – and not from Africa as maintained by US scholar Martin Bernal.

The DNA analysis indicates that the arrival of neolithic man in Greece from Anatolia coincided with the social and cultural upsurge that led to the birth of the Minoan civilization, Constantinos Triantafyllidis of Thessaloniki’s Aristotle University told Kathimerini.

“Until now we only had the archaeological evidence – now we have genetic data too and we can date the DNA,” he said."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1996686/posts

But Hellens came from North Balkans to Greece, didn't they?





....but Mycenaeans and Minoans can't be Greek???  You already accepted that Mycenaens were Greek people, which is a fact.

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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 07:26
Originally posted by TITAN_


....but Mycenaeans and Minoans can't be Greek???  You already accepted that Mycenaens were Greek people, which is a fact.


No, I don't accept that theory. I want to meant that some of Greek people can have Mycenaens genes, but you can't same Mycenaens were Greek, you should say, Greek are Mycenaeans and Especially, I believe that Creten were more different than Mycenaeans. They were Anatolian. However Hellenic people came to North Balkans.

 
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 08:21
The Mycenean people came into the ethnic composition of the Greek people. We cannt separate both, because then what is ging to happen to the Illiad - there the Mycenean people are called "Danaian",  which is commonly translated as "Greek"; Agamemnon, Menelaus etc were Greek. We cannot separate the Myceneans from the Greeks, because whoever came from the North Balkans /if they did so, that is/ mixed with the Myceneans to make the Greek cultural and ethnic homogeneity.

True, the Cretans were Anatolian, but there was also flow from Anatolia in the Balkans; the Thracians most probably had Anatolian origins, etc. The ethnic difference between the Balkans and Anatolia happened only when the Turks came about, before this they were very similar; the DNA shows that too.
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 09:44
The word Zeus appeared for the first time in history, around 1400 BC, and it was written on a tablet in Greek Linear B. Therefore, both the Greek language and religion are at least 3500 years old. Forget Mycenae for a moment. The nearby city of Argos was founded circa 2000 BC. Mycenae was only a city, neither a nation, nor an ethnic group. It was just another Greek tribe.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 09:47
Makes sence.
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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2012 at 22:03
The Myceneans were, but the Minoans most definitely were not. 
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2012 at 07:14
They were people.Titan uses "Greek" as they walked singing around:We are Greeks!SmileWhich did name they use indeed?How old is a map as a source?There are two significant sources today:DNA from graveyards and languages similarities(equalities).Main problem is phonetic:How did sound "Greek" from those times?Good definition of task's problem solves the puzzle inside.Modern Greek is Byzantine Empire residual&remake of a language as they had used those days.Interesting fact is that meaning of syllables preserves original forms(syllables) from Ancient Egyptian together with Latin&Greek:ex.HoMo(Latin)=Man=Men
(Egyptian),HoRa=Man arm(Egyptian),people(men) in "Greek".Intention of mine here is not pouring the fire with petrol.Just think about it rational.Smile


Edited by medenaywe - 30-Sep-2012 at 15:24
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2012 at 21:14
Are you saying the Greeks were descended from the Cretans and Myceneans?
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2012 at 00:07
"Greeks" were mostly Egyptian immigrants&emigrants&part of administration of Egypt in areas of Med sea.
Than came Great migration of nations.Pharaoh's name is Angry Goat-LuGee,Egee sea is also Answerable  Goat place...Goat's sea...What does goat it speaks about?SmileMer-Égée says in French till today!Others were also all around Med sea...Mostly migration&emigration from India&rest of Asia&Africa.
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  Quote chicagogeorge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2013 at 12:04
Originally posted by medenaywe

"Greeks" were mostly Egyptian immigrants&emigrants&part of administration of Egypt in areas of Med sea.
Than came Great migration of nations.Pharaoh's name is Angry Goat-LuGee,Egee sea is also Answerable  Goat place...Goat's sea...What does goat it speaks about?SmileMer-Égée says in French till today!Others were also all around Med sea...Mostly migration&emigration from India&rest of Asia&Africa.

Yeah ok...... Martin Bernal Greeks out of Africa Wink


Simple Mycenaeans WERE Greeks as their writing system has been deciphered to be Greek which is accepted by 99% of all linguists and ancient historians. 

Minoans were NOT Greek. They were most likely Anatolian origin. Like the Pelasgians, they were absorbed by the Greeks
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