Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Italy in the Middle Ages

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Peter III View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 13-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 159
  Quote Peter III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Italy in the Middle Ages
    Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 23:04
I was curious why Italy was unlike many European nations in the fact that there were so many small, independent republics. What caused this to happen and why were the small city-states able to shake off the reins of many powerful empires. Also, why did Naples and Sicily become one of the less "advanced" nations in the Italian peninsula and why did it consist of a government based more on the aspects of feudalism? Was it because of Norman rule? What are your opinions?

Edited by Peter III - 13-Sep-2006 at 23:05
Back to Top
Herschel View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 30-Oct-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 172
  Quote Herschel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 23:47
Well, I am certainly not the best person to answer anything Italy related. I can give some general information that you probably already know. (sorry)

Italy began the Middle Ages (476 AD) as the Kingdom of the Ostrogoths. It was the direct successor of the renmants of the West Roman Empire in all but name. The borders stretched from Sicily in the south, to Noricum in the north, and Bosniat in the east. Although there were some tensions with the native Romans, the German elite kept things pretty stable, adopting much of the Roman culture. This ended when Justinian I, under the guise of re-instating the mother of a deposed child (correct? I'm working from memory here.), sent his general Belasarius to re-incorporate Italia into the the real Roman Empire. This Gothic War was to last for many decades in the early to mid 6th century. Justinian was ultimately successful, but the war had badly damaged the infrastructure that was built during classic times. Rome had lost its many aquaducts that supplied the city with valuable clean water and within a few decades would shrink from perhaps 60-70,000 to around 30,000. In the late 6th century the Lombards, a small Germanic tribe who had acted as a mercenary force iduring invasion, took advantage of the power vacuum after Justinian's death and invaded Italy. They were unable to preform large-scale seiges on fortified cities (which were fast becoming smaller towns by then), but they were able to carve out small kingdoms throughout the Po Valley and Central Italy, minus the Tiber River....

Someone take if from there.
Back to Top
Melisende View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 05-May-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 157
  Quote Melisende Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2006 at 04:52
Again, generally -
 
Most of the small independent kingdoms (for want of a better word) started out as one town under the rule of one family - and grew from there, taking - by force or alliance - smaller towns under their political wing.
 
Again, generally, these petty kingdoms grew to encompass larger tracts of land, espcially that surrounding their towns which they later fortified.
 
These kingdoms were not a united "Italy" until many centuries later.  They retained their own independence, fighting larger nations as well as many smaller ones on the Italian Peninsula.  Their lack of national unity ensured not only their longevity but also, for many, their decline.
 
 "For Italy, the existence of the ecclesiastical State, and the conditions under which alone it could continue, were a permanent obstacle to national unity, an obstacle whose removal seemed hopeless. "
"For my part, I adhere to the maxim of antiquity: The throne is a glorious sepulchre."
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 08-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1943
  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2006 at 08:47
The independent city-states of northern Italy assumed their form partly by building on their urban Roman traditions of civil administration and partly by taking advantage of the abscence of a strong central power following the process of feudal disintegration in the 10th and 11th centuries. You could also add geographic location as a factor for certain trading and naval powers like Venice, Genoa, Pisa and Amalfi.

Despite attempts by the German Emperor to gain control of this ancestral Roman land, the city-states were able to remain independent in all things significant even during the reigns of strong Emperors like Otto I and Frederick Barbarossa. This had to do with the strength of the cities' internal organization, some could field comparatively large and well-trained militias, as well as their ability to join together should the threat be great enough, the Lombard League that opposed Barbarossa is an example of this.

In medieval Europe they consituted a unique form of political entity, the independent city-state republic. This type of political entity proved, as history makes evident, quite successful in the middle ages. Their downfall occured soon afterwards though, with the emergence of the so-called condottiere-model of military organization that prevailed in early modern Europe. The condottieres, mercenary generals, served many of the Italian city-states, eventually staging coup-de-etats in several. This ended the age of city-state republics and made northern Italy into a land of lordships governed by the descendants of these condottiere families, one notable exception is Florence, which fell under the influence not of a condottiere but a banker family, the Medici. The most famous condottiere family is probably the Visconti, who first gained control of Milan and then Genoa.

This state of affairs lasted, somewhat interrupted by Austrian and French interventions, until the age of the Italian unification where the whole peninsula was united under the king Vittori Emmanuel II.
    

Edited by Reginmund - 14-Sep-2006 at 08:49
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2006 at 09:10
The situation in Italy was not unlike the situation in what we now take to be Germany, was it? Granted we tend to think of the Holy Roman Emperor as ruling 'Germany', but it was hardly a unified state, and anyway he was much of the time also titular overlord in Italy.
 
Maybe we should consider the whole HRE, not just Italy.
 
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 08-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1943
  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2006 at 15:14
Some of the German Emperors excerted more influence than others, so this is a fluctuating development. In any case the great lordships of Germany and the city-states of Italy were quite different both in size and shape.
Back to Top
Peter III View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 13-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 159
  Quote Peter III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2006 at 18:08
Maybe we should consider the whole HRE, not just Italy.
 
You're right, gcle. The Holy Roman Empire as a whole makes for a much more interesting discussion (or at least in my opinion it does). So to further the question about northern Italy, why did the Holy Roman Empire as a whole have the problem of small petty kingdoms trying to gain independence?
 
Even though every empire or large kingdom faces this problem, why did it happen to the Holy Roman Empire to such an extreme extent?
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 05:11
Originally posted by Reginmund

Some of the German Emperors excerted more influence than others, so this is a fluctuating development.
Both in 'Italy' and in 'Germany'. And while the Emperors may themselves have been German/Austrian, their Empires weren't.
In any case the great lordships of Germany and the city-states of Italy were quite different both in size and shape.
 
Hamburg, Lbeck, Danzig vs Milan, Florence?
 
Or the Sicilies, the Papal states vs Bavaria, Saxony?


Edited by gcle2003 - 15-Sep-2006 at 05:16
Back to Top
Aelfgifu View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 25-Jun-2006
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3387
  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 06:12
It happened to France and Spain as well. Perhaps it would have been stranger if it hadnt happened. The difference fot Italy being that it split up in cities, rather than counties or duchies or kingdoms...

Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 08-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1943
  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 12:33
Originally posted by gcle2003

Hamburg, Lbeck, Danzig vs Milan, Florence?
 
Or the Sicilies, the Papal states vs Bavaria, Saxony?


If the comparison pleases you, but they remain quite different both in culture and political structure.


Edited by Reginmund - 15-Sep-2006 at 12:33
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.