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Pro- Choice or Pro-Life?
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pro- Choice or Pro-Life?
    Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 06:49
Don't worry about that, Un-Edu-Genius.

You know, we could ask ourselves; what would Jean D'Arc think?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 07:48
Originally posted by Un-Edu-Genius

Originally posted by morticia

Would you like others to make decisions for you?
 
No I wouldn't, And I am sure that baby would feel the same way.....

But it's not yet a baby, that's exactly the point.
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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 18:25
Originally posted by Reginmund

Value is a concept, a size of reality we humans invent, nothing is de facto worth anything, we simply decide that some things are. 
 
Except for life.. The right to have  a life. which has a well-deserved place in this threadWink
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Posts: 2630 		  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 19:10
But Diplo, don't forget that the questions of what constitutes "life" and of what exacxtly defines "life" are also devoid of the certitude that some "anti-choice" people are so sure of.  
 
I know we are starting to talk in circles here. Wink
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 20:37
Originally posted by TheDiplomat

Except for life.. The right to have  a life. which has a well-deserved place in this threadWink


I don't see why there is an exception for life, other than you wanting it to be so, I hope so myself too of course. I know you mean well though.
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Posts: 292 		  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 08:22
Originally posted by Reginmund

Originally posted by QueenCleopatra

A Fetus, ball of cells or not, is still a living being, a child, or it will become such. And no-one has the right to decide whether a child lives or dies except in extreme cases where the mother's life is in danger if she chooses to go full term.


Why not? It has always bothered me that it is impossible to deduct one's way to proving the worth of a human life empirically, thus I must doubt whether it has any "higher value" at all, though of course I hope it has.

Personally I have nothing against abortion, even when used as a last measure preventive for women who just don't feel like it yet, it should be their choice. It's not like we're short of people on this planet.    
    
 
Sorry I'm not quite sure what your saying in the first part. If its that you wonder why we shouldn't have the right to choose whether some-ones lives or dies then I have to ask why you would justify murder? I'm sorry if that's a bit strong-wording it but that is what abortion is. We had a talk on the subject when I was at school and the methods they use are horrendous. You just can't justify it.
 
As for the second part how selfish! just because a woman is lazy about contraception or is too selfish to want to share her life with some-one else the child should not have to suffer. There is such a thing as adoption or fostering you know.
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 13:52
Whether murder can be justified, depends on the situation.

There is such a thing as adoption and fostering, if the woman can be bothered to carry the baby forth, which is no small job. If she is too selfish to do this, she should have the choice not to, instead of being forced to ruin her life.
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Posts: 292 		  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 15:24
Originally posted by Reginmund

Whether murder can be justified, depends on the situation.

There is such a thing as adoption and fostering, if the woman can be bothered to carry the baby forth, which is no small job. If she is too selfish to do this, she should have the choice not to, instead of being forced to ruin her life.
 
What do you mean by that? What would justify murder for you?
 
And it wouldn't ruin her life if she gave the baby up. It would mean the child would get a happy loving home and stable upbringing and the Mother need not worry about it. She needn't have anything more to do with it if she wishes.
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 16:44
Giving the baby up isn't the only thing that might cause her post-traumatic stress, there is also the process of carrying it forth, claiming nine months of her life, and the painful birth.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying I think women should prefer abortion over giving birth and raising children, only that each woman should have the choice of whether they want to do this or not. You must agree with me on this, you can't be saying women who for some reason get pregnant and don't wish to give birth, should be forced to? Such an experience would traumatize anyone for life. I can see that you are a woman with a great love for children as well as a profound sense of responsibility, but for better or worse not all women are like you, and you should be open to the fact that other women might feel differently about this and need the security of knowing that if everything "goes wrong" and they end up pregnant, they still have abortion as an option.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 17:51
Originally posted by QueenCleopatra

As for the second part how selfish! just because a woman is lazy about contraception or is too selfish to want to share her life with some-one else the child should not have to suffer.

Even if it is selfish, I don't see why that hurts anyone here. You can't force people to have children. Like all anti-abortion arguments this only makes sense if you can prove that the fetus is as much a human as you or me. Because if it isn't, the egoism argument loses it's value.

In fact one could also say it's egoistic for parents to have a baby just because they 'want' one.
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 18:42
Indeed, imagine all the misery we'd be spared if we were never born.
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Posts: 292 		  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2006 at 08:53
Originally posted by Reginmund

Giving the baby up isn't the only thing that might cause her post-traumatic stress, there is also the process of carrying it forth, claiming nine months of her life, and the painful birth.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying I think women should prefer abortion over giving birth and raising children, only that each woman should have the choice of whether they want to do this or not. You must agree with me on this, you can't be saying women who for some reason get pregnant and don't wish to give birth, should be forced to? Such an experience would traumatize anyone for life. I can see that you are a woman with a great love for children as well as a profound sense of responsibility, but for better or worse not all women are like you, and you should be open to the fact that other women might feel differently about this and need the security of knowing that if everything "goes wrong" and they end up pregnant, they still have abortion as an option.
 
Of course I respect how other women feel but I don't like the idea that such a horrific ( and you must agree with me on that) procedure ( which is just, if not more traumitising than pregnancy and childbirth) could become jst another form of contraception for women who are too lazy to worry about proper methods.
 
My Mother got pregnant with me at 18. She could have ( as most women at that age probably would) decided to get rid of me and save herself unessecary trauma and worry. But she didn't. And I've truned out just fine. So by the way has she. She's happy, healthy and hard-working. And I am grateful to her. Thats why I can't understand women who in later years can just be rid of a child for fear of ruining their perfect lives.
Her Royal Highness , lady of the Two Lands, High Priestess of Thebes, Beloved of Isis , Cleopatra , Oueen of the Nile
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Posts: 2077 		  Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2006 at 10:30
QueenCleopatra, not all circumstances are the same. While many women who become pregnant go forward with the births, please don't deny other women the right to not go forward with them if they choose not to. Having options is necessary to make an informed decision of what is right for each individual. What may be right for one person may not be right for another. Each person's decision should be respected.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2006 at 11:10
Morty,  one of my first cases as a lawyer was to defend a women who had killed a feotus illegaly, (that is without a physician). She had four children, her husband was KIA, and she got pregnant and well......
So I am not against abortion per se. I feel that abortion on demand is something we need to avoid.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2006 at 19:15
PRO-CHOICE!
 
No government  has the right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do to her body.
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Posts: 2077 		  Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 15:42
Originally posted by gambino420

PRO-CHOICE!

No government has the right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do to her body.


BINGO!!!!!

Thanks for rendering your opinion, Gambino, and welcome to the women's forum.

Edited by morticia - 22-Sep-2006 at 15:44
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 11:37
No, But they Definantly have the right to tell them what they CAN"T do to an unborn child's body!!
 
 
 
I'm Pro- depends on the situation!
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Posts: 292 		  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 10:12
Originally posted by morticia

QueenCleopatra, not all circumstances are the same. While many women who become pregnant go forward with the births, please don't deny other women the right to not go forward with them if they choose not to. Having options is necessary to make an informed decision of what is right for each individual. What may be right for one person may not be right for another. Each person's decision should be respected.
 
 I know not all circumstances are the same I'm not stupid! Of I would respect it but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. You must see that if a woman was as you say well informed she would see that there are also other options even if abortion is on the list. Thats all I'm saying.
Her Royal Highness , lady of the Two Lands, High Priestess of Thebes, Beloved of Isis , Cleopatra , Oueen of the Nile
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 13:26
Well, we all agree then.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 15:26
Have you read about the new abortion law in Nicaragua? All abortions are now banned, including when the mother's life is in danger and in cases of rape and incest:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6089718.stm

Too bad. It appears that the oncoming elections were (ab)used to push though this law; in a catholic country like Nicaragua politicians are not likely to vote against such a strict law, because they don't want to lose votes.


Edited by Mixcoatl - 27-Oct-2006 at 15:26
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