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spartan or samurai

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Poll Question: who is the more admirable "never surrender attitude"
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646 [46.54%]
742 [53.46%]
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  Quote white knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: spartan or samurai
    Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 10:32

       For you guys which is the most admirable "never surrender attitude" during battle?:

-A spartan, who when cornered or surrounded by his enemies would fight to the death than surrender.

-A samurai, who when cornered or surrounded by his enemies would commit "harakiri" or ritual suicide than surrender.


Edited by white knight - 13-Sep-2006 at 06:47
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  Quote Omnipotence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 13:34
That's just a bunch of stereotypes. Seriously though, samurais existed to almost the industrial revolution. There are different attitudes during the existence of the samurai. Not a fair comparison.
 
btw, that is what i would call a biased question. You have already implemented a view of whose way was better before you let the questioner respond. That's how political polls are done.


Edited by Omnipotence - 11-Sep-2006 at 20:28
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 14:15
The Samurai were mostly civil servants. The Spartans surrendered at Sphacteria.
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  Quote Greek Hoplite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 04:16
What silly question is this.A Spartan warrior would smash a samurai into small pieces.
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  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 11:19
Originally posted by Greek Hoplite

What silly question is this.A Spartan warrior would smash a samurai into small pieces.
 
No he wouldnt, the Samurai were far better horsemen and used more bows. The Spartans had a massive light infantry disfunction. Also one on one the Spartan loses his main advantage- that of fighting inb advantage.
 
Also the question wasnt fighting but attitudes to death and as correctly pointed out both are untrue stereotypes.
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  Quote Greek Hoplite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 13:45
Originally posted by Dampier

No he wouldnt, the Samurai were far better horsemen and used more bows. The Spartans had a massive light infantry disfunction. Also one on one the Spartan loses his main advantage- that of fighting inb advantage.
 
Also the question wasnt fighting but attitudes to death and as correctly pointed out both are untrue stereotypes.
 
 
In close combat samurai has not got any luck against  a Spartan, i guess that many hear the word samurai and say" ouaou what warriors!"The truth is that samurai were not so brave as many present them


Edited by Greek Hoplite - 13-Sep-2006 at 13:46
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  Quote Omnipotence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 17:23
^read the topic before you get your nationalism fueled up. It's which attitude is better, not who would win.
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  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 10:40
Originally posted by Greek Hoplite

Originally posted by Dampier

No he wouldnt, the Samurai were far better horsemen and used more bows. The Spartans had a massive light infantry disfunction. Also one on one the Spartan loses his main advantage- that of fighting inb advantage.
 
Also the question wasnt fighting but attitudes to death and as correctly pointed out both are untrue stereotypes.
 
 
In close combat samurai has not got any luck against  a Spartan, i guess that many hear the word samurai and say" ouaou what warriors!"The truth is that samurai were not so brave as many present them
 
As has been pointed out you are still barkign up the wrong tree.
 
To continue the Spartan vs Samurai in a fight I'd have to say its not a matter of bravery. Its a matter of fighting styles and abilities. A samurai has a horse, is an excellent archer and generally a very good swordsman. Spanrtans however are so good because of their constant training for fighting in formations and their good discipline. Their swordsmanship is average though they are good with spears. Hence any battke begins with the Samurai circling on his horse (or standing still) and shooting arrows. Should these not kill the Spartan (unlikely) then he will close, the Spartan then has one chance to hit with his spear after which the samurais long sword (good on horseback) can come into its own against his small one. Using his horse and charging its pretty close to guaranteed he will kill/knock out/panic the spartan.
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  Quote Batu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 02:28
fightenening to death is better.by the way,spartan has no chance against samurais.
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  Quote spartacus-033 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 18:57
In refence to the fight between them, I dont think anyone can really say for sure who would win. Yes the samurai were very skilled horseman and archers, yes they were geart swordsman. The spartans were masters of infantry combat and I dont think there has ever been a heavy infantry that were as effective as them since, and they where more than "average" swordsman. They trained every day of their lives since the time they could stand. They were as good with short swords as a samurai was with a Katana. A samurai's honor would come into play in this. When he saw he faced a single oponet he would dismount his horse and toss the bow. It would be the Spartan, not the samurai who would be at a disadvantage is close combat. His greatest strength at the start would be his 9 foot spear. Because of the Bronze sheild and such the spartan would be forced to remain on the defensive. A spartan has never faced anything like a samurai and a samurai has never faced anything like a spartan before. The winner would be decide by who could adapt to the other's fighting style first not by skill. which could take some time to do because both were very fanatical and stubborn. They simply refused to change they're tactics
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 07:52
The can be considered both really good.Samurais had just better swords and bows.In training  they  were equally good ,as well as in the skill of their weapons.
 
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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 17:56
probably get a frozen spartan child popsicle lol
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  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 10:41
Well,i guess some karate skills wouldnt help much against a marching phalanx
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2006 at 04:47

I agree- A Spartan would be more than a match for a Samurai when he is in formation, but when on his own? The Samurai would beat the fellow to a pulp! I generally think that a Samurai must have been more advanced

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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 18:52

History had proved, ever since the ancient days, that organization, formation, battle tactics, mobility, and team work were the huge factor that shaped the winners. Look at Roman soldiers, or Alexanders army. Even today, cooperation between one another is the key to success... not only in military, but in business, academics, sports, etc.  

 

     
   
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  Quote Athanasios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 12:37

Spartan warriors used to formate phallanx, efficient against foot soldiers armed with short spears and swordsmen. But against to light cavalry armed with bows...no chance.

 Phallanx formation could be easily broken in an unflatterned battlefield (like kynos kefalae,Macedonians VS Romans were the phallanx formation was used by the Greeks) even by swordsmen... But spartans didn't have the same tactics like those of Persian wars through their history. They developed their army to the standarts of the classical era , to compete successfully against their Athenian foes. They also created naval force. The Spartans who served in the navy were also "Spartan warriors". Could we compare those Spartan warriors ( i mean the navy ones) with samurais? Obviously not.
 
Both ( samurai and Spartans) were born and raised as warriors with the pure meaning of the word. Maybe they fought in different tactics so the efficient of Samurais against Spartans in a hypothetical battlefield is not a good comparison. In my opinion a unique samurai without his armour was equal to a Spartan warrior without his armour too.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 13:07
While a fight to the death between the two is certainly entertaining, the original question is fundamentaly flawed in that Samurai rarely committed ritual suicide on the field of battle. The ritual suicide was offered as a means for captured samurai to avoid the shame of an execution, and maintain their honour.
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  Quote Slick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 23:52

I voted for the samurai. My reasoning is thus-

Samurai committed hari-kiri not for any strange ritual reason. They killed themselves only when they figured that fighting any longer would be pointless. What is the purpose of fighting to the death if you are absolutely certain that you're going to lose and your conquerors will defeat you decisively? Fighting to the death if you're going to lose anyways causes meaningless blood to be spilled. The samurai recognized this, and that is why they comitted hari-kiri. This is more honorable than uselessly continuing to fight for a definite losing causing, in my opinion.

Not all samurai committed hari-kiri either. If there was a chance that a samurai could survive and keep on fighting, as well as bag a victory, they did. Against the Rokkaku at Chokoji, Shibata Katsuie led a desperate sally out of his castle because he thought there was still a chance, however slim, of victory. As he believed, Katsuie was victorious. Similarly, at the Battle of Tennoji during the Osaka Summer Campaign, Sanada Yukimura fought to the death, mainly because at the time his army was winning, so Yukimura probably thought there was still a chance of victory...


Edited by Slick - 05-Feb-2007 at 23:55
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 00:22
Samurai were honorable soldiers, but it should be noted that they are still men. Many were corrupted or dishonored, especially as Japan began to modernized. No longer were samurai changed the tide of war, the machineguns did. Their debt was piling, and eventually... the only difference between samurai and commoners is the fact that samurai still had the right to carry swords.
     
   
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 00:31
Which is an awesome right don't you think? Tongue
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