Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Turkish-Azeri-Turkmen Turks cultural conn

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
Author
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkish-Azeri-Turkmen Turks cultural conn
    Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 07:31
Despite being seperated by thousands of km, Turks of Turkemnistan-Azerbaycan-Turkey have alot in common, historically, linguistically and culturally.

Oguz Turkish literature includes the famous Book of Dede Korkut which was UNESCO's 2000 literacy work of the year, as well as the Oguznama and "Koroglu" epics which are part of the literacy history of Azerbaijanis, Turks of Turkey and Turkmens. The modern and classical literature of Azerbaijan, Turkey and central Asia are also considered the Oghuz literature, since it has been produced by their descendants.

The Book of Dede Korkut is an invaluable collection of epics and stories, bearing witness to the language, the way of life, religions, traditions and social norms of the Oguz Turks in Azerbaijan, Turkey and central Asia.     

Karacaoglan is another "epic" shared by the ancestors of the Western Oguz Turks. Karacaoglan began in Turkmenistan travelled across Turkish speaking areas of Iran to Azerbaycan then to Turkey. He's loved in all three areas and his poems, works and literature has been kept alive and is ever popular today.

Among other names is obviously the famous Nasreddin Hodja who is known now pretty much across the world for his fantastic stories.

Then there are Carpets-Kilims, there are motives which are the same and the same weaving methods, this is something the Turks bought with them from the Turkmenistan area.

There is so much more, the Akhal-Teke Turkmen horses, gastronomically Yogurt, Cheese making, Pastry making, Bread making, Kebab types etc etc, clothes wise- Uc Eteks, Turkic style dress of Khans, Kaftans etc Jewellry making-metal working, Musical instruments, Singing styles, the tribal names and stamps, treating woman with more respect and higher status then the neighbouring people's................so much more it could go on and on and on.....

Historically the connection is basic historical knowledge and accepted internationally, linguistically todays Official Turkmen is easily read by Turkey-Azeri Turks, Turkey-Azeri Turks watch each other's Tv shows and can fully understand each other.

    

Edited by Bulldog - 11-Sep-2006 at 07:32
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 11:18
Art uniting peoples


An exhibition of the works of the painters from the countries, the members of the TURKSOY International Organisation for Development of Turkic Culture and Art, was opened in Ashgabat. The large-scale exhibition arranged in the State Academy of Fine Arts of Turkmenistan was organised by the TURKSOY Organisation in collaboration with the Ministry of Culture and Broadcasting Activities of Turkmenistan.

The Turkic world occupies a considerable part of the Eurasian continent. According to the demographic data, about 200 million Turkic people united by the commonality of culture, language and spiritual values live all over the world. The rich Turk worlds spiritual heritage, the Turkic subculture developed over the millennia, undoubtedly, serve as an integral part of world civilisation. With the view to preserve and develop the unique heritage, to revive the traditions of cultural exchange among the kindred peoples and to establish fruitful dialogue among peoples of good will TURKSOY was established on initiative of six independent Turkish-speaking countries: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Turkey and Uzbekistan in 1992.

The TURKSOY Organisation aims its activities at developing co-operations in the area of science, education and culture through holding the international creative laboratories (since 1998), in particular. The Ashgabat exhibition includes over 90 works of the painters from different countries who took part in the annual forums. Among them are P. Garriev, M. Khojaguliev, R. Berdiev, V. Chariev, R. Muhammedov, K. Nurliev, I. Ishanguliev and O. Lallikov.

The exhibition reflects the idea that the process of creating a work of art is the permanent search for a new way. Basing on the century-old experience and original traditions the painters expands the ordinary borders of colour, form and space. The exhibition includes the worlds created in various genres and techniques varying from classical portraits to abstract compositions, lyric sceneries to allegories and collages. Thus, the exhibition vividly presents the tendencies of development of fine arts in modern Turkic world in all its diversity of the trends, styles and techniques.

The representatives of the Ministry of Culture and Broadcasting Activities of Turkmenistan and the public organisations, the diplomats accredited to Turkmenistan and the journalists, the cultural workers and students took part in the opening ceremony. Greeting all those present the TURKSOY Vice Director General Mr. Mustafa Balcik said that it gave him great pleasure to open the exhibition on the eve of the wonderful spring holiday Nowruz that united all brotherly peoples all over the Turkic world. The honorary guest expressed sincere gratitude to the President of Turkmenistan for an opportunity to hold the exhibition in Ashgabat, in the splendid gallery of the State Academy of Fine Arts of Turkmenistan and thanked Saparmurat Niyazov for his permanent concern and support for maintenance and development of the spiritual ties among the peoples. The guest emphasized that Turkmenistan had gained the remarkable achievements in all spheres including the sphere of culture and arts that was proved by the talented works of the Turkmen painters who actively participated in the TURKSOY creative laboratories and aroused intensive interest to their creative work in many countries.

Mr. Mustafa Balcik said that independent Turkmenistan played an important role in the TURSOY activities taking an active part in the events held by the organisation. The international folk music festivals in memory of Ashik Aydyn Pier and the exhibition presenting the works of applied and decorative art of the TURKSOY member-countries were held in Ashgabat in 1993-1994. The honorary guest said that the TURKSOY International Organisation would promote popularising the great cultural and historical heritage and spiritual traditions of the Turkmen people throughout the world. As a token of profound respect and gratitude Mr. Mustafa Balcik presented a hand-made gild dish on behalf of the TURKSOY Direction to Turkmenistans representatives.

The exhibition will work till March 15. The people and guests of Ashgabat will see the talented works of the students, the graduates and teachers of the Academy of Fine Arts and the Turkmen famous painters as well.

State Informational Agency of Turkmenistan (TDH)


http://www.turkmenistan.gov.tm/people/pep_kult/110306_eng.htm
 
 
(Unlike another "individual" on this forum who likes to invent wild stories, divide and hate on anything he can and then shamefully pretend that all of Turkmenistan supports him, here is the REAL views comming out of Turkmenistan, instead of his mumbo jumby here official material is used)
 
!!!AGZI BIRLIK!!!
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 11:31
 
The monument to a great Turkmen poet and philosopher Garajaoglan built in Ashgabat

Yesterday, the ceremony of opening the monument to Garajaoglan, a great Turkmen poet and philosopher whose literary legacy is an integral part of the treasury of national and world cultures was held in Ashgabat. The poets 400th jubilee brought together numerous admirers of his talent and guests from foreign countries. The magnificent monument, a man-made symbol of the era of national revival commemorated Garajaoglan, a patriot and singer of the native land.

The high-ranking officials and the members of the Mejlis, the cabinet ministers, the representatives of the national ministries and departments, the members of the public organisations, the diplomats accredited to Ashgabat, the cultural workers and scientists, the students of the national educational establishments took part in the ceremony. The participants of the International Conference Ruhnama and the Literary Legacy of Garajaoglan in the System of Universally Shared Spiritual Values participated in the ceremony to pay their tribute of respect to the great poet. The bronze statue depicts Garagaoglan holding in the right hand a dutar, the tried friend and companion in the poets wanderings, and in the left hand a tulip as a symbol of imperishable beauty. The fine neck of the musical instrument is crowned with a dove a symbol of peace and concord. The lines from the poets verses are engraved on the marble pedestal.

The monument was designed by Saragt Babaev. The famous Turkmen sculptor tried to convey not only the poets appearance but also the essence of his personality. The specialists of the Miras Turkmen National Centre of Cultural Heritage assisted the sculptor in creating the image of the great son of the Turkmen nation. The specialists prepared the book of the poets verses for publication.

The wonderful flowers laid to the monument that will henceforth adorn the Turkmen capital city serve as the tribute of love and respect to Garajaoglan who devoted his talent and life to the native people.

State Information Agency of Turkmenistan (TDH)
 
 
Dedicated to the 400th jubilee of Garaja oglan
/23.03.06/


This year the people of Turkmenistan is going to celebrated the 400th jubilee of a great Turkmen philosopher and poet, an inspired ozan (a singer) of the Turkmen land Garaja oglan. His literary heritage is a significant and important part of the Turkmen peoples spiritual treasury and national millennium-old culture. The poets philosophical and lyrical works created over three centuries ago and glorifying devotion to the Motherland, beauty of native land, moral purity and riches of the Turkmen peoples spiritual world are still topical and poetically fresh. The poets cherished dream of the free and powerful Turkmen state came true during the years of independence.

Nowadays, the inconceivable opportunities for studying the cultural heritage of the past centuries and developing many-sided international scientific exchange are provided due to the policy of national spiritual revival acrid on in Turkmenistan. The international conference dedicated to the literary heritage of Garaja oglan is another vivid evidence of that. The conference will be held in Ashgabat on May 2-3. The first week of May is announced the Week of Garaja oglan in this connection.

The conference is to make a profound contribution to the studies of the poets creative activity and popularization of the Turkmen peoples unique cultural heritage, an integral part of the world cultural treasure. The Ministry of Culture and Broadcasting Activities, the Miras Turkmen National Centre of Cultural Heritage and the National Institute of Manuscripts of Turkmenistan are to organise and hold the conference.

The conference aroused particular interest among the Turkmen specialists and foreign scientists as well. The cultural workers and scientists from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Holland, Turkey and Germany confirmed their participation in the conference. It is expected that the historians-orientalists, scholars from China, Great Britain, Iran, Hungary, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Russian will take part in the conference. The specialists of Miras Turkmen National Centre of Cultural Heritage and the National Institute of Manuscripts of Turkmenistan are preparing the new collection (divana) of the poems by Garaja oglan for publication. The collection will include over 200 poems. Undoubtedly, the monument to Garaja oglan to be erected in Ashgabat serves as a tribute to the great poet.

The guests will visit the poets native settlement in the Balkan Velayat. Numerous cultural and artistic contests dedicated to the poets life and creative work will be organised within the framework of the cultural programme specially prepared for the Week of Garaja oglan. During the concerts held throughout Turkmenistan the bagshis will perform the songs based on the poets verses and musical compositions the people created as a token of their love and respect to the philosopher. The image of the legendary pilgrim who glorifies love to the native land and the beautiful image of his beloved in the eternity of his course of life will revive in the productions staged at the theatres of Ashgabat.

State Information Agency of Turkmenistan (TDH)
 
A pilgrim signing about eternal love
/02.04.06/


This year Turkmenistan celebrates the 400th jubilee of a legendary Turkmen poet and musician. In Turkmenistan to commemorate the remarkable date the first week of May was announced the Week of Garaja oglan whose creative activities is of particular interest to researchers, literary critics, writers and playwrights, cinematographers and musicians, readership worldwide. Nevertheless, there are few established facts about the poets life only that he had to leave his native settlement and to pilgrimage. It is supposed that Garaja oglan was born in 1606 and died in 1679. However, there is no exact data. Different sources name different settlements where the poet could live. It is only known that after leaving the native settlement he came to Anatolia, visited Egypt and Tripoli. It is supposed that he was buried in the small place called Hill of Garaja oglan, in the settlement Chukur, Ichel region.

The studies in the poets literary heritage attest that Garaja oglan knew very well Oriental poetry of that time, the works of his predecessors and widely used the folk poetic traditions, the specific elements of folk genres in his works. His poems are bound up with everyday life and traditional lifestyle of the Turkmen tribes who resided Minor Asia in that period. The poets works are well known in other countries having left a distinguished trace in development of literatures of many Turkic peoples.

Separation from the Motherland and nostalgia are the emotional burdens in the poets creative activity that are especially obvious in his poems about nature and love.

Garaja oglans poetry reflects the truth of life than poetic idealization and creative fantasies. Despite the uneasy course of life full of hardship and suffering Garaja oglan sees the source of love for life in the power of true love, beauty and harmony of nature, best human qualities. His poem To live wisely! serves as an appeal to people.

Unlike other poets, Garaja oglans contemporaries, his creative work was not subject to influence of divan poetry widely spread literary style remarkable for ornate elevation. His poems are written in the imaginative and melodious language understandable for ordinary people. Creative interpretation of the traditions of folk poetry created his individual poetical style. Everyone understands and likes his poems. His lyrical verses adorn the repertoire of the famous Turkmen bagshis till present times.

Garaja oglans poetry penetrated into all levels of ordinary people, his poems composed the repertoire of Turkmen bagshis and gained popularity as not only written literary monument but also a vivid page of the history of the national art of signing and music. The studies of Garaja oglans creative heritage of started in 1920. To date, about 500 his works are known.

Aydogdy KURBANOV,
Senior scientist of the State Institute of Cultural Heritage of the Peoples of Turkmenistan, Central Asia and the East under the President of Turkmenistan
 
 
A BARDS LIFE OF LOVE: KARACAOĞLAN
 
http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ/NEWSPOT/2001/sept-oct/n5.htm
 
 
Garacaoglan mountain statue turbe(grave) Turkey
 
 
GarajaOglan, read, loved and an epic name in Turkmenistan, TUrkey, Azerbaycan.


Edited by Bulldog - 11-Sep-2006 at 11:44
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 11:35
The Ruhubelent chagalar wins the gold medal at the international childrens festival
/16.06.06/


Enchanting the jury and audience the Ruhubelent chagalar childrens folk dancing group won the gold medal at the 12th International Childrens Art Festival among the Turkic-speaking countries. The Art Festival was held in Turkey on May 30- June 11. The childrens groups from 40 countries worldwide participated in the artistic contest developing the ties of friendship and mutual understanding among the peoples bound up with the common historical and cultural traditions. The Turk Dunyasy Chagalar Turkish Childrens Fund organised the forum.

The Ruhubelent chagalar childrens group organised in 2002 under the Ministry of Oil and Gas Industry and Mineral Resources of Turkmenistan is very popular in our country and abroad as well. The group performed the concerts in the Ruhiyet Palace in Ashgabat and participated in the Altyn asyryn altyn nesilleri Childrens Festival and other creative contests. In 2003 the Ruhubelent chagalar group took the first prize in the Garashsyzlygyn merjen dyaneleri Contest, in 2004 it won the diploma of the International Childrens Festival in Turkey and the Gulbaba Akyev Prize last year. The gold medal of the Childrens Festival in Istanbul replenished the young artists accomplishments.

In Turkey the young artists Ashgabat performed some wonderful turns including the the Ruhubelent chagalar and Shatlyk dancing compositions and Elinde yalygy elpecelendi folk dancing composition.

State News Agency of Turkmenistan (TDH)


TURMENISTAN AZERBAYCAN TURKIYE UC DOWLET BIR MILLET
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
gok_toruk View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
9 Oghuz

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1831
  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 12:06
Although Manas is of Kiptchak origin, he's famous all over Asia. So is KorOghlu. Ozbeks also have got KorOghlu too. Just like you think these are Oghuz and therefore shows the similarity, Ozbeks admire KorOghlu too.

The musical instruments quite vary in northern places. Just compare 'salyr yoly' (way of Salyr) in playing Tamdra. I hope you're familiar with classic instruments. I play Tamdra. Even the way we play  are different, let alone for 'maqam's and so forth.
 
I've lived in Iran for more than 2 years. Just like you think Nasreddin Hoja is of Turkish origin, Iranians think he was Iranian. That's why they use 'Molla Nasreddin'.
 
Northern carpet patterns have got shamanistic prints while Turkish seems to be closer to 'Tabriz' carpets in which mostly symbols like 'tree', 'flower', etc (symbols of a green land) are observed. Don't try to teach a Turkmen about carpet,...
 
... and horses. AqalTeke is what? Still lives in Turkey?
 
You don't have also 'kumys'. You haven't got 'qawurtmach', 'tatar', 'qatlamaq', etc. These are different kinds of bread which you haven't got. You also haven't got 'borok' and 'pishmek'.
 
The tribal names are QUITE, VERY VERY different. You had 24 tribes anytime in the history. We had 9. None of you 24 tribes, are observed among 9 Oghuz tribes.
 
The most correct Turkmen is Salyr. Tell me if you could understand even a word out of a few I wrote for you.
 


Edited by gok_toruk - 17-Sep-2006 at 12:06
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 15:39
Although Manas is of Kiptchak origin, he's famous all over Asia. So is KorOghlu. Ozbeks also have got KorOghlu too. Just like you think these are Oghuz and therefore shows the similarity, Ozbeks admire KorOghlu too.
 
Obviously, all are Turks afterall its natural for these to be very popular among Turks. Koroglu is native to Turkmenistan-Azerbaycan-Turkey, Ozbeks are Turks its natural for them to also like Koroglu as they can understand and bond to it easier. Sher Navoi is a literary legend and claimed by Ozbek Turks, he's loved and has influenced all Turks in literary circles.
 
 
I've lived in Iran for more than 2 years. Just like you think Nasreddin Hoja is of Turkish origin, Iranians think he was Iranian. That's why they use 'Molla Nasreddin'.
 
Your unbelievable, its internationally accepted he was a Turk, there was a Unesco year dedicated to the great Nasreddin in 1996. His tomb is in "Akshehir" Turkey, he was from Central Anatolia, a Turk.
 
I don't "think" he was a Turk, its a fact, I've never heard anything as riduclous as him being Iranian.
 
He is also loved and his stories told in Arabia, Arabs don't try and decieve thereselves and call him an Arab, they know he was a Turk, so do people in the Balkans and Caucous.
 

Celebration of anniversaries

The General Conference,

Having taken note of 146 EX/Decision 9.2 and 147 EX/Decision 8.7,

Decides that:

(a) UNESCO shall be associated in 1996-1997 with the following celebrations:

(xxix) seven hundredth anniversary of the death of the Turkish humorist Nasreddin

Hoca, Hodja ( Nasruddin, Goha) (1996);

 
 
 
 
His tomb in Aksehir Turkey.
 
 
 
 
Nasreddin Hodja in Ozbekistan
 
 
The Turkish Jester by Hoca Nasreddin
 
Bibliographic Record
Creator Nasreddin, Hoca
Translator Borrow, George Henry, 1803-1881
Title The Turkish Jester
or, The Pleasantries of Cogia Nasr Eddin Effendi
 

Nasreddin Hodja

Tales of the Turkish Trickster

D. L. Ashliman
 
 
 
 
 
 
Northern carpet patterns have got shamanistic prints while Turkish seems to be closer to 'Tabriz' carpets in which mostly symbols like 'tree', 'flower', etc (symbols of a green land) are observed. Don't try to teach a Turkmen about carpet,...
 
There are Turkmen carpets in Turkey which have the Shamnist prints, please research this you'll be amazed.
 
... and horses. AqalTeke is what? Still lives in Turkey?
 
Ofcourse and from there it spread to England and created the "English Thoroughbread"
 
The AqalTeke is one of the most majestic horses in the world! a treasure.
 
These are different kinds of bread which you haven't got. You also haven't got 'borok' and 'pishmek'.
 
First, its not "I" don't I;m not from there but I know it well yes there is "Borok", "Pishmek",
 
The tribal names are QUITE, VERY VERY different. You had 24 tribes anytime in the history. We had 9. None of you 24 tribes, are observed among 9 Oghuz tribes.
 
The 24 tribes heavily populate Turkmenistan, there are the same tribes in Turkmenistan, Turkey and Azerbaycan. Your gonna say only in South and West but I have to point out the most populated area of Turkmenistan is this area.
 
The most correct Turkmen is Salyr.
 
That's subjective, the most correct is the official version.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 15:40
Banners of the Turkmen-Ottoman Empire
/13.02.06/


In the 14th century a state playing the outstanding role in the fate of not only peoples of the Middle and Near East but also Northern Africa and Europe appeared on the world arena. It was the Turkmen-Ottoman state.

The great empire was founded by Ertogrul Beg and his son Osman Ghazi who moved from Merv to Asia Minor in the 13th century.

Speaking about the state symbols of the Turkmen-Otoman Empire it should be stressed that it was extremely diverse. Numerous totemic views of different Turkmen tribes united by the Osmanids were likely to influence them. It is difficult to say what symbols were depicted on the banners of the first Turkmen-Ottomans, as the initial period of the state is still shrouded in legends.

As the historia I. Amanliev notes, the first Ottomans had a green banner and later, when the small Turkmen begdom turned into the empire white and red flags were also used. At the same time the scientist A. Vitol cites a legend going that Ottoman Ghazi left only a cup, a spoon, a salt-cellar, several horses and banners made of red cloths.

Probably, such contradictions are caused by the fact that since ancient times the Turkmen states used all those colours. In the Middle Ages combination of read and green colours were popular among the Turkmen and with adoption of Islam black flags also became popular, as they symbolised fight for right religion.

There is no common opinion on the symbols of the Ottomans. In our opinion, it was also diverse. But crescent and star were the most preferable in the Turkmen-Ottoman state.

It is often asserted that the Turkmen borrowed those symbols from the traditionally Islamic countries. But the orthodox Islam recognised no symbols and the banners of the caliphates were of pure black colour without any symbols. Crescent and star are symbolic attributes of the ancient ancestors of the Turkmen. They were known in the territory of Turkmenistan from the Bronze Age.

Crosses as prototypes of star are widely present at many monuments of ancient Turkmenistan (Margush, Altyn-depe and others) and impositions of two crosses were solar symbols. That octagonal star reproduced the image of the ancient Turkic deity Tangry.

However, the lunar symbol was also widespread attesting to the lunar cult. The Temple of Moon was discovered at the Altyn-depe site where a gold bulls head with a turquoise crescent on its forehead was found. With complexity of the world outlook Sun and Moon merged. It was most likely connected with formation of a new religion in the territory of our country, Zoroastrianism that greatly influenced other world religions Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam. The scientific research proves that Southern Turkmenistan was the place of origin of the first world religion. The new symbols (moon-crescent and sun-star) symbolised not only day and night, darkness and light but also the notion of left (sun) and right (moon).

A stone plaquette discovered at Altyn-depe has depictions of sun-cross and moon-crescent. Two thousand years later the same symbols were favourite ones in the Parthian Empire in the territory of Southern Turkmenistan. There is an emblem in the form of crescent and octagonal star in many coins of the Parthian kings.

Basing on those data we can assert that those signs were ancient symbols of the Turkmen. In 1913 Y. Smirnov supposed that crescent was a dynastic symbol of the Turkmen in Asia Minor. Professor V. Thomsen also considered that crescent had been spread among the Turkmen before adoption of Islam. Academician V. Bartold describing the flag of the Turkmen-Ottoman Empire which crescent was embroidered on, wrote: In any case crescent as a religious symbol being to the mosques of the same importance like cross for the Christian churches was characteristic not for Islam as a whole but specially for the Turkish-Ottoman Islam.

The Turkmen played a great role in saving the Muslim religion uniting the Islamic countries, putting an end to bloody wars between different trends of Islam and liquidating the threat of intervention of the European Crusaders to the East. The Ottoman sultans were not only secular rulers but also spiritual leaders of Islam. They became possessors of all Islamic shrines and in their campaigns against the European countries they carried state flags and the sacred banner of the Prophet Mohammad. It is not surprising that the Turkmen symbols of crescent and star became associated with the Islamic symbols and spread in the Near and Middle East.

It is necessary to mention that besides the sultans flag there were also numerous standards of viziers, governors and military commanders.

The famous people in the Turkmen-Ottoman Empire had bunchuks (horses tails) on their standards. This tradition originated thousands of years ago.

The great vizier of the empire was allowed to have five bunchuks on his standard while three other viziers had three horses tails.

The Turkmen-Ottoman Empire was divided into two parts, Anatolia and Rum, each administered by the beylerbey (governor general) having a two-bunchuk standard. Those provinces were subdivided into districts, sanjaks, governed by sanjak-beys whom the sultan gave one-bunchuk standards.

Military units also had their banners. Even commanders of a hundred and ten soldiers had their own signs.

The large banner of the sultan with embroidered star and crescent against the red background, on the flagstaff with numerous bunchuks impressed greatly. It was carried out on great holidays and during military campaigns when the sultan took part in them. The banner was guarded by a special detachment.

Centuries passed by, stars and crescent again appeared on the State Flag of independent neutral Turkmenistan. Though the modern symbols are full of new sense they are undoubtedly based on the ancient traditions of the Turkmen people.

Ovez GUNDOGDIEV,
Head of the department of the State Institute of Cultural Heritage of the Peoples of Turkmenistan,
Central Asia and the Orient under the President of Turkmenistan


      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
gok_toruk View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
9 Oghuz

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1831
  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 04:15
But Ozbeks structure is not the same as Turkmens; although closer than Turkish people. They claim Koroghlu was an Ozbek while Turkmens say he was Turkmen.
 
Ask friends like Zagros what Iranians think about Molla Nasreddin.
 
You don't know anything about carpets. Don't teach a Turkmen how carpets are. In international bazaar, a Turkmen carpet is very very different in the patterns. Turkish carpet is always considered close to Tabriz (Azeri) carpets. Do you know what I'm talking about when I say shamanistic? Bring me examples if you know abotu shamanistic patterns Turkmens talk about.
 
I know about the English horse and its realtionship with AqalTeke. Now you're telling me AqalTeke exists in Turkey? AqalTeke doesn't exist in Turkish. History have mentioned AqalTeke horses specific to Turkmen. But there's not such a thing Turkish horses were famous.
 
Frist, tell me what is Borok and what is pishemk. For sure, you don't know what they are or else you wouldn't classify them with breads.
 
No, it's not only south or west. Turkmens are consisted of 9 tribes; not 24. This is the problem I'm all talking about. Even the names of these 9 tribes and Turkish 24 tribes are not the same.
 
It's just like saying 'American English' is the most correct form; cuase more people speak it. Or saying modern day Persian is the most correct form; because it's the standard. You don't know anything about linguistics. Any Turkmen would be surprised to hear the most correct one is the standard one.
 
Is this the culture and similarities you're all talking about? You even don't know anything about breads, horses, carpets, language. If you think we're really of the same origin, why don't you reply me in the thread' Turkmen culture vs Turkish and Azeri'. None of these cultures are found in Turkey. If you think our languages are the same, why don't you reply me in 'Turkmen language vs Turkish and Azeri'. I'm sure you won't even understand a Salyr or Ersary.
 


Edited by gok_toruk - 12-Sep-2006 at 04:18
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 13:12
But Ozbeks structure is not the same as Turkmens; although closer than Turkish people. They claim Koroghlu was an Ozbek while Turkmens say he was Turkmen.
 
 Both accept he was a "Turk", do you even know the "Epic of Koroglu"Confused
 
 
Ask friends like Zagros what Iranians think about Molla Nasreddin.
 
 
LOL You carry on listening to your "friends" and I'll carry on listening to historically proven facts, something accepted by most International scholors.
 
Go visit his Tomb in "Aksehir" Turkey, Nasreddin Hoja has a 400 page work in which his great stories are written, he's in Ottoman records, Seljuk records, Evliya Celebi wrote than in the Aksehir region Nasreddin Hoja was very popular and his tomb is there.............................
 
And so on, I guess everyone in the world is lying except a few Iranians who love his stories so much but can't accept they love stories of Turks.
 
 
 
You don't know anything about carpets. Don't teach a Turkmen how carpets are.
 
Don;t ISmile again, your not the only Turkmen here, so don't You try teach Turkmens about carpets.
 
I know about the English horse and its realtionship with AqalTeke. Now you're telling me AqalTeke exists in Turkey? AqalTeke doesn't exist in Turkish. History have mentioned AqalTeke horses specific to Turkmen.
 
Stop making a clown out of yourself. Its already been established and accepted also by Turkmenistan that TUrkey Turks are "Oguz" (Turkmen Turks) originally from Turkmenistan area. Do you thknk they flew thereLOL No they came on their "Akhal Teke" horses, as they're the same people and their horses became internationally renown.
 
 
No, it's not only south or west. Turkmens are consisted of 9 tribes; not 24. This is the problem I'm all talking about. Even the names of these 9 tribes and Turkish 24 tribes are not the same.
 
Oh so the people in South, West Turkmenistan are not Turkmens, jeez this is now getting ridiculous.
 
Read what Turkmenistan officially says, your not a representative or a spokesperson for Turkmenistan so stop being such an imposter.
 
 
 
 
 
 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
xi_tujue View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Atabeg

Joined: 19-May-2006
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1919
  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 13:33

Gok turk you said that turkish people arent turkmen but azeri.

 
I was wondering wht they called the turks in anatolia turkmens until early ottoman periode
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 13:34
 

Gok turk you said that turkish people arent turkmen but azeri.

 
I was wondering wht they called the turks in anatolia turkmens until early ottoman periode
 
Don't confuse him even more, he doesn't even accept the majority population of Turkmenistan as Turkmens how could he accept Turkmens from areas outside of Turkmenistan as brothers.
 
 
1300th celebration of the literary legend Dede Korkut/Qorkut-Gorkut by Unesco, his stories are loved by Turks especially in Turkmenistan,Azerbaycan, Turkey (Oguz-Turkmen Turks)
Bekdurdy AMANSARYEV
 
 
 DG/2000/15

Original: English


UNITED NATIONS EDUCATIONAL,
SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATION


Address by
Mr Kochiro Matsuura


Director-General
of the United Nations Educational,
Scientific and Cultural Organization
(UNESCO)

on the occasion of the celebration of the
1300th Anniversary of Kitab-i Dede Qorqud
Baku, 9 April 2000


Mr President,
Distinguished Heads of State,
Excellencies,
Ladies and Gentlemen,
It is a very great pleasure indeed for me to be here in Baku, to take part in this
anniversary celebration of the epic poem Kitab-i Dede Qorqud.
Let me first express my deep gratitude to President Aliev for his warm and
generous hospitality. On this occasion, I would like to pay special tribute to him for
his remarkable efforts to promote political unity and the economic and social
development of his country.

Allow me also to extend cordial greetings to the Heads
of State gathered here: President Suleyman Demirel of Turkey, President Askar
Akaev of Kyrgyzstan, President Noursoultan Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan and also to
the Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan Speakers of Parliament, Mr Khalilov and Mr
Muradov. I am impressed by the very real interest in the cultural heritage that your
presence at this ceremony shows. You are united not only in your common
linguistic and cultural heritage, but in a shared sense of leadership in the important
area of cultural identity.


Many people now recognise the literary and historic importance of Kitab-i
Dede Qorqud. Oral traditions are the wealth of the world and the precious
inheritance of generations, nations, peoples and regions. This is not just a matter of
literary tradition. Great epics like the Iliad, the Mahabarata and Dede Qorqud offer
a set of historical, social, political, ethical and geographical references through
which the identity of the individual and the community is affirmed.

In their written
form -- and then through translation and wider dissemination -- they become the
inheritance of all humanity. In addition to its English-language version, the recent
publication of the Dede Qorqud epic in Azerbaijan, Turkey, France and Germany,
based on the 15th century manuscripts, attests to this process of dissemination.
Following the decision taken by UNESCO in 1997 to celebrate the epics one
thousand-three-hundredth anniversary, two days of special commemorative events
were organised at UNESCO Headquarters last June with the active involvement of
senior Azerbaijan officials and artists.

The audience was completely charmed by
the rich programme which included film, dance, song, music, an exhibition and a
scientific colloquium. In this way, UNESCO introduced the unique cultural
heritage of the Dede Qorqud epic to the international public. This type of event, bringing the oral and intangible heritage of one culture to people from many other
cultures, plays an extremely important role in promoting international
understanding and appreciation of cultural diversity.

Mr President,
Ladies and Gentlemen,
We readily share the monuments of the tangible heritage. When I say
share, I mean that we are all able to look on the pyramids, for example, as our
common heritage. We are all able to enjoy the beauty of such outstanding
architectural remains. But we must also be able to share and enjoy more intangible
treasures, such as this great epic poem that was first handed down by oral tradition
for centuries before finally being written down and published in the 15th century.


Kitab-i Dede Qorqud was the creation of a nomadic people. This saga was their
outstanding and most enduring monument. It has survived the passing centuries,
just as the stone monuments of sedentary peoples have survived the centuries. We
are not talking about the preservation of something marginal: this legendary epic is
full of the wisdom of the ages. It is a philosophy in itself, and cannot therefore be
seen merely as an optional aspect of life.
As you know, before becoming Director-General of UNESCO, I chaired the
World Heritage Committee. And before that, I represented my country, Japan, on
the same Committee.

So I have seen from various perspectives how national and
international approaches to, and responsibilities for, world heritage interlink. Over
the years, UNESCOs efforts to preserve heritage have evolved in line with
changing perceptions. While first concentrating on the cultural heritage, they have
since striven to take in the natural dimensions of our heritage and, more recently,
begun to include oral and intangible heritage.

These shifts in emphasis are
something to which UNESCO must constantly remain alert, and I personally attach
great importance to seeing to it that our programmes reflect these evolving
priorities.
In this regard, UNESCOs Member States will soon be invited to submit
candidacies for the new title masterpieces of oral and intangible heritage of
humanity. The first award of this prestigious title will be made in just over one
years time. This title - or label, if you like - will, I feel sure, help promote respect
and understanding of the very notion of intangible heritage. In this way, it will
contribute to the promotion of cultural diversity and give us new arms to resist the
trend towards uniformity which globalisation so often triggers.

The celebration ofcultural diversity is also fundamental to the promotion of tolerance, harmony and
understanding. So the issue of safeguarding and revitalising the intangible heritage
means much more than promoting folklore: it goes to the heart of human existence.
Its enduring importance to communities across the entire region derives from its
role in establishing and maintaining cultural identity.


Mr President,
Ladies and Gentlemen,

The rich heritage of the past in your region is not only significant as a
contribution to world civilisation; it is also a resource which can help you to rise to
the challenges of the present and can help you to build the future.
This summit meeting of TRKSOY attests to your forward-looking approach
to cultural cooperation. UNESCO and TRKSOY share the same vision of culture
and development.

The preservation, revitalisation and promotion of the Turkic
languages, cultures and traditions open the way to a dynamic, creative and proactive
engagement with the world of the twenty-first century. And as in the past with the
Silk Roads, which remain an extraordinary example of mutual cultural enrichment
through the contacts they stimulated between the regions they traversed,
development is rooted in the strong expression of cultural identities that remain
open and responsive to dialogue, change and pluralism.


The on-going dialogue and cooperation through which you pursue these goals
will open the way to closer links, greater understanding and a better appreciation of
diversity. This approach to cultural cooperation unlocks the potential of individuals
and of the community. Regional cooperation in this part of Europe and Asia holds
the promise of flourishing economic, social and human development.
UNESCOs fields of competence - education, science, culture and
communication - offer particularly fertile ground for this effort. I am very pleased
to see how well advanced our joint efforts are in the scientific programmes for the
Caspian Sea and Aral Sea.

I believe that the recently published Aral Sea Basin
Vision document, can be seen as a model for integrated and inter-disciplinary
efforts to achieve sustainable development. It is a model which seeks to work with,
and not only for, the communities concerned.
Having been for so long a cross-roads between civilisations, religions and cultures, your region can, I am convinced, build on its wealth of experience to
promote international dialogue and understanding. UNESCO is most ready to build
an ever-stronger partnership with you in working towards the goals of peaceful
international cooperation.

We are already actively preparing UNESCOs
contribution to the United Nations Year of Dialogue Among Civilisations which the
UN General Assembly has proclaimed for 2001.
I thank you once again for inviting me to be part of this celebration of a
cultural masterpiece that, even today, remains a source of inspiration to us all.

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0011/0011...194/119498e.pdf
 
 
 
The glorious sons of the Motherland

The unfading memory of the wise forefather
/10.06.06/


Gorkut ata Turkmen occupies the special place among the legendary historical figures of the Turkmen people. An entire epoch of the spiritual development in the Turkmen history is linked to Gorkut ata.

The epos Gorkut ata is a magnificent literary monument of the Turkmen nation. A wise narrator and mouthpiece of the peoples cherished dreams Gorkut ata wrote and performed the wonderful songs in honour of Turkmen epic heroes. Other baghshis sang his songs and passed them from mouth to mouth over many centuries. Some time later these sagas were written down and published. Rashid-ad-Din, Abu-l-Ghazi and other medieval historians wrote about his life. It became the common property of people only two centuries ago, when the scientific world discovered the Turkmen epic literature from the manuscripts preserved in the Turkmen peoples memory over the centuries.

The first list was found in early XIX century in the stock of the manuscripts at the Dresden National Library and owing to the works of a German orientalist Ditz it was widely distributed in the scientific circles worldwide. More than 100 years later six stories of the so-called second manuscript were found in a library in Vatican by an Italian researcher E. Rossi. In the middle of XX century, a Turkmen scientist Ata Rakhmanov wrote down 16 chapters of the so-called chovdur version of the epos from a baghshi.

In 1922, a Russian Academician V. V. Bartold translated the Book of Gorkut ata preserved on the Dresden manuscript into Russian. However, only 40 years later this work was published in small quantity and immediately became a bibliographic rarity.

The book tells about the struggle of the Turkmen heroes against their enemies. Some other story lines are developed as well. The real events and elements of artistic fiction are interlaced in the plot. A. Yu. Yakubovskiy wrote an interesting scientific article noting that the epos Gorkut ata was of significant importance for studying the life of the Turkmen society in the early medieval period. In his article, the author emphasized that the book precisely mirrored the national customs and believes, the names of the Turkmen tribes, the hierarchy in the Turkmen society, the features of their lifestyle, etc.

The more the work exists the more fairy elements it contains. Not surprising that the legends about Gorkut ata Turkmen who is 1,500 years old, tells about both real and fantastic personages and events.

For example, a story about Domrul tells about a fight of the Turkmen hero against the angel of death. In some other story, one beg has a son whose name was Beset. Later, a lion brought up the young man who lived alone and was unable to get rid of his animal habits. Nevertheless, Gorkut ata was persistently persuading Beset to return into human society and taught the laws of living among people to him.

In old times, the legend says, there was one-eyed giant ogre Depegez who killed many people. Gorkut Ata was brave enough to talk to the ogre and suggested taking a levy instead of killing people. Eventually, Beset killed the cruel giant ogre. Gorkut ata brought the young man back to human society.

The Book of Gorkut ata has many interesting realistic personages. One of them is an ordinary man, a shepherd. There is an episode: the enemies made a plundering raid to the camp of the Turkmen beg Salyr Ghazan, took prisoner his wife and son and robbed him of gold and silver ware, horses and camels. Moreover, the enemies decided to seize his 10000 sheep. They sent 600 racers. The hard-working shepherd started a fight to save his masters flock. He was even ready to sacrifice his life to help Salyr Ghazan to release his family from captivity.

According to the legends, Gorkut ata is a patriarchy who supervises his people and the elders. He is a whitebeard wise man, a baghshi singer and prophet. All the Turkmen people should obey him. The rulers and heroes respected him as Gorkut ata always gave the pieces of good advice.

Many Turkmen customs originate from the period when the wise Gorkut ata lived. In the period, there was a wonderful custom: prior to performing some important acts one needed to consult the elders. The wise teacher Gorkut ata always called upon to it. After gaining independence Turkmenistan revived the good traditions. Each year the best representatives of the nation regularly gather at Halk Maslakhaty (Peoples Council) in which the elders respected yashuli as well as the ministers, khyakims, public leaders take part.

Gorkut ata introduced the new moral values to the life of the Turkmen people thanks to his sermons about faith. Speaking about the faith of our ancestors, we should note that in ancient times the Turkmen people were pagans-idolaters. Gorkut ata lived in late VI and early VII centuries when Prophet Mohammed announced about one Allah for all. Gorkut ata was one of the first to adopt Islam and to go on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

The Book of Gorkut ata is a wonderful paragon of the developed Turkmen literary language. The book contains the sayings, proverbs, witty language nuances which amaze even modern linguists. For example, it contains a wise advice of the Turkmen elder Until you have a father, work for a good name, until you have a horse, pave a path! There is a statement which became an aphorism: Music starts where words end.

This epic work occupies a special place in the rich heritage of the Turkmen nation. At the same time, it should be noted that the cult of Gorkut is well spread amongst many Turkic nations. Academician V. V. Bartold said The Kazakh learned the cult of Korkud from the Oghuz through the Gypchak From the banks of the Syr Darya the Oghuz brought the legends about a Turkmen prophet and singer Korkud, a mouthpiece and repository of wisdom, to the west.

The stories about Gorkut ata still live in Northern Caucuses amongst the Nogai, where the Turkmen people fought and roamed. In the Stavropol Territory there is a village named after the great Turkmen prophet. Alisher Navoyi, an Oriental classical poet and thinker, once said that Gorkut ata is too famous among the Turkic peoples to need more popularity.

http://www.turkmenistan.gov.tm/people/pep&trad_eng.htm

 
 
Dede Korkut statue in Holland from Azerbaycan.
 
IPB Image

 
A story of Dede Korkut,
 
Salyr Bey Wink enjoy
 


Edited by Bulldog - 15-Sep-2006 at 13:37
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 16:49
anlayana sivri sinek saz, anlamayana davul zurna az
Back to Top
gok_toruk View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
9 Oghuz

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1831
  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 03:28

One of the greatest Iranian poets 'Molavi' s birthplace or tomb (I'm not sure on this) is in Turkey. But this does not show he was a Turk. So, is this your proof he was Turk?

It's your own belief; just like the way Iranians think he was Iranian, you claim he was Turk. By the way, show me your INTERNATIONAL historians who have researched about Molla Nasreddin.
 
No AqalTeke exists in Turkey. We haven't got any famous horse from Turkey, let alone to believe AqalTeke exists in Turkey. We'll be, ANYWAY, connected, huh? Which Oghuz? Ofcourse they were not 9 Oghuz.'
 
All Turkmens are consisted of 9 tribes. You don't read the posts exactly. Did I say Turkmens in south and west have got 24 tribes? Our tribal confederations is not the same with yours.
 
I didn't say Turkish people are Azeri.
 
Northern Khoaran TURKs  sometimes call themsleves, 'tat Turkmen'. They're not Turkmen; but (were) nomads. There are lots of people who are called 'Turkmen' but are not from Turkmenistan. They were called so, just because they were nomads.
 
You said it: 'anlayana sivri sinek saz, anlamayana davul zurna az '.


Edited by gok_toruk - 17-Sep-2006 at 03:57
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
Back to Top
gok_toruk View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
9 Oghuz

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1831
  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 03:52
There's really no need to get angry and call people 'clown; anlamayan' when you can't answer the question.
 
You all can make fun of me until whenever you want; but won't be able to give proofs. You're just EXPRESSING yourself.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 10:22
Originally posted by gok_toruk

One of the greatest Iranian poets 'Molavi' s birthplace or tomb (I'm not sure on this) is in Turkey. But this does not show he was a Turk. So, is this your proof he was Turk?

It's your own belief; just like the way Iranians think he was Iranian, you claim he was Turk. By the way, show me your INTERNATIONAL historians who have researched about Molla Nasreddin.
About "Molavi or Mevlana" i can agree, but about "molla nasreddin or Nasreddin Hoca" i dont agree, you dont need to find after "International historians", just come to his birthplace in Aksehir (in Konya) and visit his turbe there. The local people there will show you enough evidences.





Edited by DayI - 17-Sep-2006 at 10:25
Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 10:25
 
Northern Khoaran TURKs  sometimes call themsleves, 'tat Turkmen'. They're not Turkmen; but (were) nomads. There are lots of people who are called 'Turkmen' but are not from Turkmenistan. They were called so, just because they were nomads.
I thought we gave another name for nomads btw "yrk". The problem is you dont want to understand that there are Turkmens outside Turkmenistan. Dude Turkmenistan exist only for 15-16 years, therefore or hundreds year before, that place whas called "Turkestan" and it is known that people moved from there to the west via Iran or via Russia. How you can be sure that maybe "some" Turkmens didnt moved to the west (or where forced to move)?

I find this an absurd statement of you "There are lots of people who are called 'Turkmen' but are not from Turkmenistan" a real blunder so far.
Back to Top
gok_toruk View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
9 Oghuz

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1831
  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 12:03

Just go to Iran and you'll see what they think about Molla Nasreddin. Ask an Ozbek (I'm talking to Bulldog) if Koroghlu is Turk. He definatley would say 'no; an Ozbek'. Alright you can classify them as all Turks; but for sure, we know they're not the same people.

'Yoruk' is not used among Turkmens; it's meaningful; but not used the way you told. That's what I told you about 'charwoq' and 'tayqan'. The classifications are not the same.
 
You're talking about nations; not people. The name Turkmen has been used for more than 800 years. It's not about Turkmen. 9 Oghuz and Sihun Oghuz are two seprate tribal confederations. Turkmens were the last people in Central Asia who were defeated by Russia. Why should they migrate to west? They are different people under the similar names. Don't confue past with present. Our problem is on 9 Oghuz and Sihun Oghuz. History obviously shows they were not the same people. You're again neglecting the facts.
 
Ofcourse. You can't classify an Iraqi Turkmen with somebody from Turkmenistan, because of their names. The name 'Turkmen' has been somehow misused.


Edited by gok_toruk - 17-Sep-2006 at 12:07
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 12:46
One of the greatest Iranian poets 'Molavi' s birthplace or tomb (I'm not sure on this) is in Turkey.

Your not sure about alot of things are you but you sure as hell like to pretend you are.

Mevlana was from today's Afganistan area originally, he spent most his life in "Konya" today#s Turkey capitol of the Selchuk Turk State.

He was an Islamic Philosopher and professed to being a "human" not a nationalist.

His family today exist and are Turks and state that he was originally a Turk.

He wrote in Persian, however, he never wrote heavilly about Nationalism etc as he was a devout Muslim.


It's your own belief; just like the way Iranians think he was Iranian, you claim he was Turk. By the way, show me your INTERNATIONAL historians who have researched about Molla Nasreddin.

     Don't you read man.


Celebration of anniversaries

The General Conference,

Having taken note of 146 EX/Decision 9.2 and 147 EX/Decision 8.7,

Decides that:

(a) UNESCO shall be associated in 1996-1997 with the following celebrations:

(xxix) seven hundredth anniversary of the death of the Turkish humorist Nasreddin

Hoca, Hodja ( Nasruddin, Goha) (1996);


http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0010/001018/101803E.pdf#search=%22Supports%20OAU%20Resolution%20CM%2FRES.1603%20(LXII)%20%20Nasreddin%20%22




The Turkish Jester by Hoca Nasreddin

Bibliographic Record Creator Nasreddin, Hoca
Translator Borrow, George Henry, 1803-1881
Title The Turkish Jester
or, The Pleasantries of Cogia Nasr Eddin Effendi


http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/16244
Nasreddin Hodja
Tales of the Turkish Trickster
D. L. Ashliman

http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/hodja.html

http://www.cs.biu.ac.il/~schiff/Net/front.html

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/197103/a.man.of.many.names.htm


You want to carry on? this is Internationally accepted, besides nearly half of Iran is made up of Turks, they always tell his stories its natural for people who arn't Turks in Iran to like them aswell.

Also Arabs, Balkan countries even in North Africa his stories are told.

They all accept he was a Turk, there's no argument about it.

His tomb is in Turkey, his jokes are in Turkish he even has jokes about Persians, he's mentioned in Sari Saltuks Saltukname, works by Cem Sultan brother of Mehmed the Conqueror, in the Paris Bibilioteque, Evliya Celebi......... and so on

Between July 5-10 of each year, International Nasreddin Hodja Festival takes place in Aksheir, where his tomb is.


No AqalTeke exists in Turkey.


I guess Turks just flew to today's Turkey on magic carpets, ofcourse there are Akhal Teke horses, its how they made their mark in Europe.

We haven't got any famous horse from Turkey

Nobody said the horse was from "Turkey", its Internationally accepted as the national horse of Turkmenistan and as Turkey Turks are mainly Oguz Turkmen its how they got to today's Turkey.

All Turkmens are consisted of 9 tribes. You don't read the posts exactly. Did I say Turkmens in south and west have got 24 tribes?

Your just flipping and mixing now, there are Afshar, Salur, Tahtaci, Kayi, Bayat.........etc etc in Turkmenistan today stop kidding yoruself.

Northern Khoaran TURKs sometimes call themsleves, 'tat Turkmen'. They're not Turkmen; but (were) nomads. There are lots of people who are called 'Turkmen' but are not from Turkmenistan.

Don't you realise that the borders of Turkmenistan are only recent and were drawn up artificially by Russians, theres two million Turkmen in Iran, Turkmen in Afganistan, Irak, Syria, Turkey, Cyprus, Kafkas, Balkans and so on, this is all land of Turkmen Turks.


DayI
I find this an absurd statement of you "There are lots of people who are called 'Turkmen' but are not from Turkmenistan" a real blunder so far.


I totally agree.

Just come to Iran and you'll see what they think about Molla Nasreddin. Ask an Ozbek (I'm talking to Bulldog) if Koroghlu is Turk. He definatley would say 'no; an Ozbek'.

There are nearly 30 million Turks in Iran, if you were to ask one of them they'd obviously state he was a Turk and recite his stories in Turkish as they make most sense to Turks and Turkish humour, society and structure.

I have asked Ozbek Turks, they know he was a Turk as they know they're Turks one hundred-two hundred years ago there was no differentiating, everyone was simply a Turk there were different tribes and clans but everyone belonged to the Turk nation.

Koroglu was a Turk as was Karacagolan as was Nasreddin Hoca.

b]You're talking about nations; not people. The name Turkmen has been used for more than 800 years.

Absolute nonsense, Turkmen has been used for 1300 years. Turkmen is not a seperate nation, Turkmens are Turks. Just read what TURKMENISTAN OFFICIALLY WRITES, it accepts and promotes that the Turks of Turkey are Oguz Turkmen Turks and is proud of this.

Why should they migrate to west?

If your going down this route why should any Turk have ever migrated West from the Altay region

Ofcourse. You can't classify an Iraqi Turkmen with somebody from Turkmenistan

Yes you can and you can classify most Turks west of Turkey with Turkmenistan, this is internationally accepted.

Your just comming out with subjective views and have no substance against the facts which are being presented.


    

Edited by Bulldog - 17-Sep-2006 at 14:32
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 13:11
Another "epic" shared by Turks is that of Koroglu/Gorogly.

Epic of Kroğlu

The Epic of Kroğlu (Turkish: Kroğlu destanı) is a legend prominent in the oral traditions of the Turkic peoples. The legend first began to take shape sometime around the 11th century CE, at about the same time as another common Turkic legend, that of Dede Korkut.

As a legend common to several different cultures, the epic of Kroğlu exists in many variants in a number of different Turkic languages. A theme common to nearly all versions, however, is that of the heroKroğlu, or "son of the blind man"defending his clan or tribe against threats from outside. In many of the versions, Kroğlu earns his name from the wrongful blinding of his father, an act for which the son takes his revenge and which initiates his series of adventures. He is portrayed as a bandit and a poet.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koroglu



Koroglu was a Turkic national hero in Azerbaijan in the 16th century. The Koroglu epic is shared by the Azerbaijanis, the Turks of Turkey, and the Turkmens. Most of the characters in the epic were historical persons, including Koroglu, Giziroglu Bey, Kosa Safar, Jafar and Hasan Pasha. Koroglu's many poems are kept in the Institute of Manuscripts of the Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan.


The saga about Gorogly


The period of the history of our nation, when the epos Gorogly was developed, was not an easy one. XVI century was the century of intertribal factions which promoted the external influence that made the Turkmen nation dependent on foreign invaders.

This situation put the heroes, who protected the Motherland from the enemies in the forefront. Gorogly is the epic embodiment the heroic deeds. He is the main hero of the famous legends that tells about the fights of the Turkmen people against foreign invaders and local tyrants, despots and their accomplice.

According to researchers, the legends about Gorogly beg Turkmen are based on the historical events as they narrate about the real events taking place in XVI-XVII centuries. However, the laws of the genre evolving from the ancient traditions assume that the epos comprises the realistic images, the mythic elements and personages like a winged horse, fairy, a magic dutar, heavenly sward and others.

Many researchers think that such the epic hero as Gorogly beg Turkmen might had a historical prototype. According to some versions, in XVII century Arakel from Tebriz wrote that during the reign of Safavid Shah Abbas I there was national protector named Gorogly who wrote many songs, which are still performed by ashugs. Professor H. Samuelian states that in XVII century there was a man named Gorogly who was very famous.

The same can be referred to other personages in the epos Gorogly. In the works of an orientalist P. I. Petrushevkiy we find some data about the military leader Jygaly beg who protected his Motherland. The scientist states the exact data the year 1605. This historical figure is considered the prototype of the epic hero Jygaly beg, an opponent of the unjust shah. In the dastan Gorogly he was blinded by the cruel and unfair despot.

A medieval historian Hasan beg Rumly mentions a strong fighter-hero Ovez (Avaz) amongst the leaders of the uprising in Tebriz (1571-1574). Some specialists suppose that he was the prototype of the epic hero Ovez who was adopted by Gyorogly beg Turkmen.

A. S. Tveretinova in her work The Uprising of Kara Yazyjy-Dali Hasan in Turkey, and earlier (in 1912) a Russian scientists A. Adamov wrote that in Arabic Iraq there was a large uprising of the Turkmen in response to the oppression. Dali Hasan, who is depicted as a hero (in some versions as Goroglys close friend, in the others his adopted son), is mentioned in the Turkmen legends as a leader of the upsurge.

Scientists made some attempts to find the historical parallels to the negative heroes of the epos as well. A scientist I. P. Petrushevkiy wrote that when following the advice of his vezier Hamza-mirza Safavid Shah Mohammed Khodabanda in 1584 wanted to arrest Turkmen prince Amin khan, the Turkmen tribes stirred up a large rebellion. In this regard, Academician B .Karryev assumes that vizier Khamza-mirza is a negative personage in the epos Gyorogly epos (in the Turkmen version he is a dignitary who had a prison zindan).

In the mid XVI century military leader Mustafa-pasha led the army of 100,000 warriors to the Caucuses, where the large tribal unions of the Turkmen people had settled down. Thus, some scientists find a parallel to the real Turkish commander and his epic namesake Mustafa-pasha, who treacherously attacks Gyoroglys tribe as the dastan tells.

The versions of the epos Gorogly are spread amongst the nations in Central Asia (Turkmen, Karakalpaks, Uzbeks, Tajiks), the Caucuses (Armenian, Azeri, Georgian), Asia Minor (Turks, Kurds), Siberia (Tobol Tatars) and others. Professor H. Samuelian in his foreword to the Armenian version of the epos Gorogly writes, In the Azerbaijanian and Turkish versions of the epos it is mentioned that Gorogly was a Turkmen by origin.

According to a legend, little Gorogly was born in a very unusual way. His mother dies, when she was still pregnant, and Gorogly was bornin a grave. The people of Chandybil gave him the name of Rovshen. Rovshen means light, radiant, and bright. This name meant that the boy came out from the gloomy grave into the bright world. However, often he is named a son of a grave Gorogly.

Since Gorogly beg Turkmen was an orphan, he was raised by his grandfather Jygaly beg, who wanted his grandchild to become a brave dzhigit a brave defender of his Motherland and his people. Since his childhood Gorogly spent much time with shepherds and horse-breeders. They and his grandfather taught him to ride horse and use weapon, and told to him about the simple, but important ideas like protecting the homeless, helping those in need, punishing the unjust. Since his youth Gorogly stood as a leader: he was brave, courageous, determined, unusually strong and fair.

A blood thirsty khan lived in those restless times. He oppressed the Turkmen nation a great deal. Goroglys grandfather fell a victim to the khan. The khan blinded Jygaly beg. Our hero brave and courageous was determined to take revenge on this cruel khan for the oppression!

Gorogly was an unusually strong man. His feats were so unusual that people tried to explain the source of his power by telling that all mighty protectors Prophet Khydyr and chiltens 40 powerful saints helped him. It was difficult to defeat Gorogly in a battle as he knew well how to use weapon. However, the peoples imagination interpreted the reasons of his invincibility by presuming that the Goroglys sword was made of heavenly metal by some mysterious spirits-protectors erens.

Gorogly beg Turkmen was another weapon a bow made of rare metals. The spokesmen tried to emphasize the unusual power of the bow and thus said that an arrow sent by the bow killed 7 elephants standing in one row. No one could play as well as Gorogly played the dutar. When he sang his wonderful songs, everything seemed to come to a standstill. This is why many people thought that his dutar was magic. It is not surprising that this hero has an unusual horse named Gyrat. It was so fast that people remembered him as a winged horse.

Taking care of his native people the wise leader of dzhigits built an asylum in the mountains inaccessible to the enemies the castle Chandybil. A girl named Aga-Yunus, whom Gorogly married, was so beautiful, wise, brave and had many other wonderful qualities that she was called heavenly peri. Aga-Yunus was the heros devoted wife and helper, his true friend and wise advisor, whom Gorogly listened to, and respected a lot.

Speaking on the lessons, which can be learnt from the epos, I would like to note the language of the dastan Gorogly. The language is unusually rich and at the same time simple and fine. As if we hear the wise statements, sayings, proverbs used by the personages of the epos Old enemy will not become a friend, a black cat white, The aarket of a rich man is always with him, Ask a racer about horse-riding, old people about cattle, courage men about battles, wolves about sheep, Verbosity is like a field overgrown with weeds and many others.

Over some centuries the dastan Gorogly is a favourite work of many Turkmen baghshi. There is one chapter-shaha, which they do not like to perform as it narrates about the heros death. Famous Palvan-baghshi who assisted in transcribing the main text of the epos published in 1941 and 1956, did not perform this chapter. Some other baghshis performed it later. In some versions the hero does not die. Having reached the age of 120 he went away to the mountains. According to one version of the dastan recorded in 1939 from the words of famous performer Kurbandurdy-baghshi Gotur ogly, Gorogly handed over his power to his son Er ogly whose name means a son of a daring fellow.


Bekdurdy AMANSARYEV     



Koroglu Epic is loved by all Turks.
    

Edited by Bulldog - 17-Sep-2006 at 13:12
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 17:43
Originally posted by gok_toruk

Just go to Iran and you'll see what they think about Molla Nasreddin. Ask an Ozbek (I'm talking to Bulldog) if Koroghlu is Turk. He definatley would say 'no; an Ozbek'.

Ofcourse they would say so, because they think Timurlenk whas an Uzbek also. Its like "molla nasruddin" or "nasreddin hoca" it is told from youth to them as "an uzbek molla nasruddin" or "there whas a whise uzbek hoca wich his name whas nasreddin who..." you know. If you search after the topic "Nasreddin hoca" in Post-Classical Middle East forum you'll be suprised how many people think that he is "one of them".


Alright you can classify them as all Turks; but for sure, we know they're not the same people.

correct.


Edited by DayI - 17-Sep-2006 at 17:49
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.176 seconds.