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C and K

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Gubook Janggoon View Drop Down
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: C and K
    Posted: 05-Dec-2004 at 13:01
The letters C and K seem to serve basically the same purpose in English.  Is there really a difference between the two and would it be better to get rid of one?
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2004 at 13:50
Well the silly thing about English is that the 'c' has two sounds, so without changing the spelling, you are stuck with them both. Plus there are the silent 'k's, and you need the 'c' for 'ch and so on.

Welsh solves the problem by having C always hard, and no letter K.
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2004 at 16:12
The C sometimes sounds like the K only because the Copy Cat copied it over.
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2004 at 16:45

You sertainly kould separate the two - probably eliminate one -and in the long run it would sertainly make it easier to learn the language -  but it would make all the diktionaries obsolete.

My kurrent favorite is:

ghoti -

gh as in enough

o as in women

ti as in nation

English sure is a fishy language...

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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2004 at 17:13

English pronunciation isn't very clear cut, and had a lot of redundency.

Here are some ways to write today just using variation of the day part:

Today
Todai (raise)
Todei (neigh) <>
Todey (grey)
Todae (sundae)
Todeh (eh?)
Todea (yea)
Todhey
Toda

Imported pronunciations
Todet (buffet)
Tode (Fianc)
Todee (Fiancee)



Edited by Imperator Invictus
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  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2004 at 22:16
i never though of it, but there isnt a K in spanish is there?
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2004 at 23:01
No there isn't...I think we should get rid of the C...
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 02:19

No there isn't...I think we should get rid of the C...

Nah we should just keep the C for the ch sound.

Like:

I kould have gone to curc if I wanted to but I'm too tired now.

 

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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 02:52

"He wrote a cek for the kemist - but it bounsed?"

I'm getting konfused already.  It sertainly canges your perspektive on the language.

But then what do we do about sh?

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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 07:52

Ok peepl it appears  THat wee hav kom to a problem with wat we are to do with ingliS speling. I sA we just keep it as is.

Or something like that. Because if we try to change english spelling we're no better than the mormons who came up with the deseret alphabet. And then you have to ask yourself, do you really want to be like mormons.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 08:09
ja, I zink ze English shpelling ist perfekt right now
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  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 19:48

Also Italian does not use K, except for foreign words.

You probably know that the K was the original greek letter for that sound. Romans inherited their alphabet from the Greeks present in Southern Italy, but through the Etruscans, who apparently confused the "K" and "G" sound -- maybe they just had an intermediate sound, like modern Japanese has just a sound that is middle way between "R" and "L", so that they have a hard time at appreciating the distiction between them in foreign words.

However, our C came from greek Gamma, i.e. their G (through an intermediate graphic form more or less like that: "<"). Since Romans, differently from Etruscans, needed two diferent letters for C and G sounds, the created the G by adding a sort of hyphen to the C letter.

The K was reintroduced when the Romans came in to contact with Greece. That probably was a sign that the C sound was somewhat changed in the meantime. Probably that is related to the fact that in many modern languages (not only in English) the C sounds differently acording to what letter follows it.

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  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 14:23
well, what are the origins or earliest examples of the K?   Deep deep in the IE language.
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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 20:01

Nei, Ze ch and sh schould be replased wit sch instead.

Den it eliminates ze need to have c kompletely.  Das ist wonderbar!

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  Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 02:28

Originally posted by Catt

well, what are the origins or earliest examples of the K?   Deep deep in the IE language.

AfAIK, at least from Phoenicians, as you can see on this table:

http://phoenicia.org/imgs/siniatic.jpg

coming fron this interesting website:

http://phoenicia.org/alphabet.html

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 08:06
Originally posted by hansioux

Nei, Ze ch and sh schould be replased wit sch instead.

Den it eliminates ze need to have c kompletely.  Das ist wonderbar!


But zere is a differenz bitween ch and sh. Ch is pronouzed like 'tsh'.
I zink sh kould be written like
, and ch could be written like č. Like it is in Slavik languazes.
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 23:50
the K is useless, all its functions can be taken over by either the C or the Q depedning on useage.
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  Quote Kuu-ukko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 02:16
Well actually on the subject, the reason why there are both C and K in English, is because of the Anglo-Saxons. You see, when the Anglo-Saxons brought their language containing Frisian, Angle, Saxon and Jute  elements, all of them used the Germanic alphabet, futhark. The futhark did not have the letter C, but because Anglo-Saxons came to Britannia, they invented one to represent with the letter C a sound that was s in front of E and I, and k in front of A, O and U. They also kept the letter K to represent allways the hard k. I'm not so sure why this happened though , it just did .
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  Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 01:19
I recently got this as one of those e-mails.....


> Euro English -  new language standard
>
>  The European Commission has just reached an agreement whereby English
>  will be the official language of the European Union rather
>  than German,
>  which was the alternate possibility.
>
>  As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that
>  English spelling needed improvement, and has accepted a five-year
>  phase-in plan that would be known as "Euro-English."
>
>  In the first year, 's' will replace the soft 'c.' Sertainly, this will
>  make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard 'c' will be  dropped in
>  favor of 'k.' This should klear up konfusion and keyboards
>  kan have one less letter.
>
>  There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the
>  troublesome 'ph' will be replased with 'f.' This will make words like
>  'fotograf' 20% shorter.
>
>  In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted
>  to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.
>  Governments will enkorage the removal of double leters which  have always
>  ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible
>  mes of the silent 'e' in the languag is disgrasful and should go away.
>
>  By the forth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing 'th'
>  with 'z,' and 'w' viz 'v.' During ze fifz year ze unesesary 'o' kan be
>  dropd from vords kontaining 'ou' and similar changes vud of kurs be
>  aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
>
>  After ze fifz yer ve vil hav a rali sensibl rtn styl. Zer vil be no mor
>  trubl or difikultis, and everiun vil find it ezi tu undrstand ech ozer.
>
>  Zen Z Drem Vil Finali Kum Tru!
>
>  Ober and ut!
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  Quote Capt. Lubber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 08:52
Haha, that is great. It looks like the way a german talks english.

And the c is usually redundant, and so is the q. They can almost always be switched for s or k. except for in ch, but there you could write -tsh.

Kikk the bitsh!
Loke, Attila, the grete conqueror,
Deyde in his sleep, with shame and dishonour,
Bleedinge ay at the nose in dronkenesse,
A captayin shoulde live in sobrenesse
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